Part P & Testing

[CLB]

You will need (or best to have) Professional Indemnity Insurance as opposed to Public Liability Insurance for your own work.

I'm Elecsa registered and their stipulation was for £2m of public liability ins. which is what I've got.

 

[bigbaddave]

I'm Elecsa registered and their stipulation was for £2m of public liability ins. which is what I've got.

Thats you call then, However there is not a hope in hell id be issuing a EIC for somebody else's work. For Example. What would happen if the cables are not in the correct zones and the next homeowner puts a nail through the cable the RCD fails and they die.. Your signing to say its your work and if it end up in court well..

I know this is the worst case scenario but as i say i will allways only give a cert for work i have done. I did do a unfinished house once where everything had been wired, Just required second fix and board and test. Issued EIC however clearly stated that the existing wiring was already there and therefore only responsible for the work i have installed

 

[CLB]

Thats you call then, However there is not a hope in hell id be issuing a EIC for somebody else's work. For Example. What would happen if the cables are not in the correct zones and the next homeowner puts a nail through the cable the RCD fails and they die.. Your signing to say its your work and if it end up in court well..

I know this is the worst case scenario but as i say i will allways only give a cert for work i have done. I did do a unfinished house once where everything had been wired, Just required second fix and board and test. Issued EIC however clearly stated that the existing wiring was already there and therefore only responsible for the work i have installed

That's what I'm thinking tbh. It won't do the homeowner any good for me to go and give him an EICR if he needs and Installation Cert. I'm not putting my rep on the line for someone else's work. I'll have to advise him he needs a 2391 sparks to test & inspect it who can give him the cert he needs.
Time to walk away from this one methinks.

 

[Rampantchilli]

You DO NOT NEED 2391 to issue ANY certificates

 

[CLB]

You DO NOT NEED 2391 to issue ANY certificates

Even if it's for someone else's work you haven't overseen? That was my understanding of what 2391 was/is.

 

[chrish_1977]

Part P & Testing

I think you should have 2391 to issue certs (here goes the cat amongst the pigeons) IMO of course

 

[Geoffsd]

Re: Part P & Testing

I think you should have 2391 to issue certs (here goes the cat amongst the pigeons) IMO of course

Yes, you 'should' - but you don't.


CLB - As for insurance -

Elecsa require you to have PL to 'join' (or be allowed to pay).

But you need PI to cover you doing EICRs.

 

[Rampantchilli]

Even if it's for someone else's work you haven't overseen? That was my understanding of what 2391 was/is.

not even for that, in fact im currently awaiting for my assessment for Qualified Supervisor, for which i only need my 17th ed cert not even my 2391, i couldnt understand that at all, as ill be counter signing around 40-60 certs a week

 

[Heisenberg]

I'm Elecsa registered and their stipulation was for £2m of public liability ins. which is what I've got.

That will only cover you for things like somebody tripping over your toolbag and breaking their neck. What Geoff is referring to is to cover you from being sued due to giving out poor advice or not actually doing the job properly. Given that, you may find it hard to get a decent quote if you intend on doing EICRs and don't have a 2391 or it's replacement equivalent. No insurer is going to cover you if all they have to go on is you saying you are competent, they will want to see something concrete.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Part P does not cover inspecting and testing.
Part P only covers electrical installation work.
Napit only insist that you have public liability, I assume because you are a member of their Part P scheme, which by virtue of being Part P does not cover Inspections and Testing of existing installations.
However I feel fairly certain that if you were to join their scheme for Insprction and Testing, they would insist you have professional indemnity.

 

[Heisenberg]

Part P does not cover inspecting and testing.
Part P only covers electrical installation work.
Napit only insist that you have public liability, I assume because you are a member of their Part P scheme, which by virtue of being Part P does not cover Inspections and Testing of existing installations.
However I feel fairly certain that if you were to join their scheme for Insprction and Testing, they would insist you have professional indemnity.

The OP is with Elecsa, not Napit. However, you are correct, Napit want you to have 250k worth of indemnity and have your 2391 or equiv, if you want to test and inspect.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

I don't know where I got Napit from?

 

[CLB]

Ok, I'm totally confused now. From what's been said, one doesn't need to be 2391 to do an inspection & test on an installation one hasn't overseen or installed, but 17th Edition isn't enough to be able to issue an EIC on that same install either???
If the original sparky who installed the cabling etc isn't available for whatever reason, who can issue the EIC in his place?

 

[Des 56]

Ok, I'm totally confused now. From what's been said, one doesn't need to be 2391 to do an inspection & test on an installation one hasn't overseen or installed, but 17th Edition isn't enough to be able to issue an EIC on that same install either???
If the original sparky who installed the cabling etc isn't available for whatever reason, who can issue the EIC in his place?

Sorry CLB,but you don't seem to be accepting the basic fact that it is the installing electrician who issues an EIC

No one may issue the EIC for another companies installation,therefore you can offer, "to who it may concern" an EICR

In order to carry out the EICR you need no qualification,but the customer or Labc or whoever is involved in the problem may insist that someone who can demonstrate competence,possibly by using a schemes paperwork,only those persons can issue an acceptable EICR

 

[Heisenberg]

Can't help but think that the change of name from PIR to EICR has added to the confusion that some people seem to have.

 

[Geoffsd]

At least we don't connect pieces of paper to outside lights anymore.

 

[Steve_P]

I think most people get this question on a regular basis. There really are only a limited number of answers to the customer/estate agent/solicitor.

1. You can have an EICR (was PIR) but NOT an EIC
2. Track down the original spark and get them to issue the EIC.
3. Buy indemnity insurance for the electrical work.

 

[MDJ]

Can't help but think that the change of name from PIR to EICR has added to the confusion that some people seem to have.

yep agree, they only did it so they could change the certificates and rip us off, I buy dozens of pads and then they change them LMAO, these guys in suites making decisions.

 

[valleybilly]

Come across this afew times , Builder/client slagging the spark only to find later its the spark who's been done over with unpaid extra work and therefor refusing to issue certs which he's perfectly entitled to under the Elecsa banner anyway , I'd do the job but wait till there funds had cleared before releasing any documentation they want .


PS , you dont need to remove meter tails to do Ze / Zs lol

 

[CLB]

Come across this afew times , Builder/client slagging the spark only to find later its the spark who's been done over with unpaid extra work and therefor refusing to issue certs which he's perfectly entitled to under the Elecsa banner anyway , I'd do the job but wait till there funds had cleared before releasing any documentation they want .


PS , you dont need to remove meter tails to do Ze / Zs lol

In this instance though, the sparks has been paid and he's ****ed off to another part of the country to work there. He's not answering any calls from the builder but he's known to be working.
There must be a procedure in place for someone else to issue an EIC if the original sparks has disappeared, or died, or left the industry, or is just plain refusing to do it. It's not that I'm not accepting it, if that's the rules then that's the rules and I'll do an EICR and that will have to suffice until such time that the building is rewired again and a new EIC can be issued properly. I just wanted ot know if there is ANY instance where an EIC can be issued by anyone other than the person who did the work. It appears not.