Plenty of jobs out there?

[GLENNSPARK]

I disagree. That's my prerogative. There's agencies that will get you in. It's up to you to prove yourself once you're there.

you disagree that its a buyers market voltz?.....

 

[VoltzElectrical]

Voltz I kind of agree with your general point but put yourself in the position of an employer or even an agency. You have two guys up for a mates job, one has no experience but has a CSCS card. The other has the same card + a few years experience.
Which one gets the gig?

WITH RESPECT, I agree, but this is a separate issue about competition for jobs. Some here are stating that you can't get on site with only a CSCS card.

YOU CAN.

 

[wellshocked]

If you're at college, you're an improver. Companies want decent labour.

THEY DON'T REWARD QUALIFICATIONS!!

WHY DO YOU THINK THE IMPROVER WHO FINALLY GETS HIS QUALIFICATIONS WON'T GET A PAYRISE???? HE'S ALREADY DOING THE JOB, SO WHY PAY HIM MORE?

I AM SPEAKING FROM EXPERIENCE AND THE EXPERIENCE OF MY PEERS.

ALL THEY CARE ABOUT IS THE JOB GETTING DONE AS CHAPLY AS POSSIBLE, HENCE EMPLOYING AN ARMY OF MATES NOT SPARKS.

I SPEAK THE TRUTH

if you go to college your an improver, when your qualified from college your an electrician,

so when do you become a "mate"

 

[wellshocked]

ive seen jobs on jobcentre asking for electricians mates and they get paid more than improvers

the only time i see loads of mates on site, is when a load of containment needs to go in

 

[VoltzElectrical]

you disagree that its a buyers market voltz?.....

NO. I disagree that you can only get on site with experience and knowing someone on the inside.

You have to use the agencies against themselves to get yourself in, then you will get the experience.

for god's sake glen...

 

[VoltzElectrical]

if you go to college your an improver, when your qualified from college your an electrician,

so when do you become a "mate"

From the start!!!

What are you 'WELLSHOCKED'?

Mates fetch cable, bend tube, pass screwdrivers, are the extra pair of hands you need on a double handed job. You get to see it, do it, learn it. Mates haven;t been to college, and are vital to the industry.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

surely an electricians mate is all about pulling cable/s in...go get this....fetch us that....support this while i fix it etc etc...general mule......and at the end of it you might....just might get to terminate/make off.....and basic stuff like that......if you are at college on day release..whatever...then you aint a `mate`...more an apprentice....`mates` are just donkeys to fetch n carry.....

 

[wellshocked]

WITH RESPECT, I agree, but this is a separate issue about competition for jobs. Some here are stating that you can't get on site with only a CSCS card.

YOU CAN.

im not saying you cant get onto site with just a cscs card

im saying it is near on impossible

 

[wellshocked]

lol ill be whatever they want as long as i get the job !!

 

[VoltzElectrical]

mates put up light fittings, make off sockets, put up trunking, yada yada yada. Stuff you can learn in 5 mins flat. The stuff no one is gonna pay more that £10 an hour for. Simple stuff. Simples. The big sites are made up of mates. It's a good start for someone to understand how electrical installations work. From there you learn about distribution, switching, organisation, deliveries, hierarchy, everything.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

lol ill be whatever they want as long as i get the job !!

blag it!!!!!

 

[wellshocked]

mates put up light fittings, make off sockets, put up trunking, yada yada yada. Stuff you can learn in 5 mins flat. The stuff no one is gonna pay more that £10 an hour for. Simple stuff. Simples. The big sites are made up of mates. It's a good start for someone to understand how electrical installations work. From there you learn about distribution, switching, organisation, deliveries, hierarchy, everything.

that is true , im not saying your wrong on it , but the bare minimum they want you to have is at least to be on the course

 

[GLENNSPARK]

like the time that one of the workmates at this place we were at got a job in the effluent plant they had at the pack of the factory......so we goes out to wakefield on a friday night...and he`s tellin this bird that he`s a forensic scientist with a ferrari....

 

[wellshocked]

like the time that one of the workmates at this place we were at got a job in the effluent plant they had at the pack of the factory......so we goes out to wakefield on a friday night...and he`s tellin this bird that he`s a forensic scientist with a ferrari....

I told the bloke who gave me the start in electrical that i could more or less rewire a house. he still take the **** out of me to this day

 

[VoltzElectrical]

surely an electricians mate is all about pulling cable/s in...go get this....fetch us that....support this while i fix it etc etc...general mule......and at the end of it you might....just might get to terminate/make off.....and basic stuff like that......if you are at college on day release..whatever...then you aint a `mate`...more an apprentice....`mates` are just donkeys to fetch n carry.....

NO. the only difference is that an improver or apprentice has hi sight on higher academic goals.

I've worked with 'mates' who are doing a sparks job, day in, day out. They are flippin good, but they are never gonna do college. They started out at the bottom and learned it as thy went along. There is no economic space for people to fetch and carry. On all the jobs I've been on, everyone fetches and carries on deliveries, and loading out.


'Mates' are the butter on the sandwich. Essential to make everything go smoothly, and worth every penny.

You can't run successful jobs, with all sparks thinking 'I ain't doing that (never been on one yet) and all apprentices with their tongues up sparks bumholes.

 

[VoltzElectrical]

that is true , im not saying your wrong on it , but the bare minimum they want you to have is at least to be on the course

NO. You are totally missing the point. THE WHOLE POINT OF A GOOD MATE IS THAT YOU HAVEN'T BEEN ON AN EFFING COURSE, AND NEVER WILL BE. THAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN MATE AND IMPROVER.

UNDERSTAND THIS PLEASE FOR GODS SAKE MAN.

 

[VoltzElectrical]

Glen spark is an improver, however much he likes to come on here with his name in red bigging it up like a spark. Hes got a few steps yet till his gold card innit glen!

 

[GLENNSPARK]

NO. the only difference is that an improver or apprentice has hi sight on higher academic goals.

I've worked with 'mates' who are doing a sparks job, day in, day out. They are flippin good, but they are never gonna do college. They started out at the bottom and learned it as thy went along. There is no economic space for people to fetch and carry. On all the jobs I've been on, everyone fetches and carries on deliveries, and loading out.


'Mates' are the butter on the sandwich. Essential to make everything go smoothly, and worth every penny.

You can't run successful jobs, with all sparks thinking 'I ain't doing that (never been on one yet) and all apprentices with their tongues up sparks bumholes.

perish the thought....

 

[wellshocked]

NO. the only difference is that an improver or apprentice has hi sight on higher academic goals.

I've worked with 'mates' who are doing a sparks job, day in, day out. They are flippin good, but they are never gonna do college. They started out at the bottom and learned it as thy went along. There is no economic space for people to fetch and carry. On all the jobs I've been on, everyone fetches and carries on deliveries, and loading out.


'Mates' are the butter on the sandwich. Essential to make everything go smoothly, and worth every penny.

You can't run successful jobs, with all sparks thinking 'I ain't doing that (never been on one yet) and all apprentices with their tongues up sparks bumholes.

they learned it practically

do they know all the risks , the cable calcs, the regs

they will only know what people have told them on site , and how often do you spend the whole day talking about electrics to the person you work.

 

[wellshocked]

anyone with enough experience can look at a drawing and know what to do , but do they understand the theory behind the drawing

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Glen spark is an improver, however much he likes to come on here with his name in red bigging it up like a spark. Hes got a few steps yet till his gold card innit glen!

never claimed anything else.....my boss sees me as an improver....

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Glen spark is an improver, however much he likes to come on here with his name in red bigging it up like a spark. Hes got a few steps yet till his gold card innit glen!

i sense a bit of resentment here Voltz....

 

[VoltzElectrical]

anyone with enough experience can look at a drawing and know what to do , but do they understand the theory behind the drawing

They don't need to! Installing to drawings doesn't need the skills of designing and understanding, but a whole set of other skills. Installation skills!

 

[GLENNSPARK]

i`m actually an apprentice voltz.....second year level 2.....

 

[wellshocked]

it dont matter anyway , the fella only asking about what route to take and how to go about it,

do plumbing!

 

[VoltzElectrical]

surely an electricians mate is all about pulling cable/s in...go get this....fetch us that....support this while i fix it etc etc...general mule......and at the end of it you might....just might get to terminate/make off.....and basic stuff like that......if you are at college on day release..whatever...then you aint a `mate`...more an apprentice....`mates` are just donkeys to fetch n carry.....

Surely you are contradicting yourself here Glen. In one statement you are saying that 'mates' are fetch and carry merchants, and in another that they are installing cables (the backbone of any electrical installation) and second fixing?

Hear this one and all, and hear it now.

ELECTRICAL MATES, LABOURERS, IMPROVERS WHATEVER YOU WANT TO CALL THEM, ARE IN DEMAND, ALWAYS WILL BE.

BECAUSE BIG JOBS DON'T NEED PEOPLE TO KNOW CABLE CALCS, AC THEORY, OR ANY OF THE OFFICE STUFF.

THEY JUST NEED CHEAP(ISH) RELIABLE LABOUR TO INSTALL TO A REASONABLE STANDARD.

THIS DIVISION OF LABOUR INTO MATE/ IMPROVER/ LABOURER IS NONSENSE. YOU EITHER HAVE A GOLD CARD OR YOU DON'T.

THE PEOPLE EMPLOYING EITHER WANT CARD CARRYING SPARKS OR THEY WANT 'MATES' ( USED TO DESCRIBE UNQUALIFIED OR PARTLY QUALIFIED LABOUR)

THERE IS NO OTHER DISTINCTION.

 

[piratebillybob]

Glen spark is an improver, however much he likes to come on here with his name in red bigging it up like a spark. Hes got a few steps yet till his gold card innit glen!

I dont know why you need to capitalize your messages as well as if putting them in caps is going to articulate your meaning any better.

 

[wellshocked]

Might aswell do house bashing, 8-4 , earn 90-100 a day , can wear trainers and shorts, and declare what you want

 

[pmac10]

op, look into maintenance electrician, i have to do industrial electrical installation, but its usually a punishment for being bad, motors,controls,networks,plcs,projects where you do everything from design to install, and not much bitchin'....:hurray:

 

[wellshocked]

op, look into maintenance electrician, i have to do industrial electrical installation, but its usually a punishment for being bad, motors,controls,networks,plcs,projects where you do everything from design to install, and not much bitchin'....:hurray:

thats what im sort of doing at the moment , a bit of building managment , it is really good money , im not even qualified and am on 110 a day (although he never pays on time) most of the jobs i get are to change lightbulbs and replace fittings, a lot of driving though ,all over england

 

[wellshocked]

but i do love a bit of house bashing

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Surely you are contradicting yourself here Glen. In one statement you are saying that 'mates' are fetch and carry merchants, and in another that they are installing cables (the backbone of any electrical installation) and second fixing?

Hear this one and all, and hear it now.

ELECTRICAL MATES, LABOURERS, IMPROVERS WHATEVER YOU WANT TO CALL THEM, ARE IN DEMAND, ALWAYS WILL BE.

BECAUSE BIG JOBS DON'T NEED PEOPLE TO KNOW CABLE CALCS, AC THEORY, OR ANY OF THE OFFICE STUFF.

THEY JUST NEED CHEAP(ISH) RELIABLE LABOUR TO INSTALL TO A REASONABLE STANDARD.

THIS DIVISION OF LABOUR INTO MATE/ IMPROVER/ LABOURER IS NONSENSE. YOU EITHER HAVE A GOLD CARD OR YOU DON'T.

THE PEOPLE EMPLOYING EITHER WANT CARD CARRYING SPARKS OR THEY WANT 'MATES' ( USED TO DESCRIBE UNQUALIFIED OR PARTLY QUALIFIED LABOUR)

THERE IS NO OTHER DISTINCTION.

i said you might get to do a bit of making off......hardy regular second fix is it voltz......further more in referance to cable pulling....i was refering to the heavy stuff......

 

[GLENNSPARK]

I dont know why you need to capitalize your messages as well as if putting them in caps is going to articulate your meaning any better.

because voltz is clearly one of those that likes to imprint his views on others.....and capitals are a means of achieving this....i bit like the various dictatorships that sprang up in the 20s and 30s.....

 

[pmac10]

but i do love a bit of house bashing

the very thought fills me with dread!, a job as a maintenance spark in a good factory/company can be hard to beat

 

[trev]

WITH RESPECT, I agree, but this is a separate issue about competition for jobs. Some here are stating that you can't get on site with only a CSCS card.

YOU CAN.

Ok then, I'll rephrase on their behalf(Please forgive me guys) you can get on site with only a CSCS card.

(My words now though) However unless you know someone who will put a word in for you it's extremely unlikely

 

[wellshocked]

Ok then, I'll rephrase on their behalf(Please forgive me guys) you can get on site with only a CSCS card.

(My words now though) However unless you know someone who will put a word in for you it's extremely unlikely

exactly , thats all i was trying to say to him

 

[wellshocked]

the very thought fills me with dread!, a job as a maintenance spark in a good factory/company can be hard to beat

definetly especially if you want the holiday pay , a mortgage and a van ,

but i do find it easy cash, the only downside is peoples filthy houses chasing out and lofts, but it is also a relaxed atmosphere , none of this health and safety crap they have on big sites

 

[pmac10]

definetly especially if you want the holiday pay , a mortgage and a van ,

but i do find it easy cash, the only downside is peoples filthy houses chasing out and lofts, but it is also a relaxed atmosphere , none of this health and safety crap they have on big sites

agree , but i've never done site work, full time maintenance engineer with a global company, my focus is keeping production lines running, but like i said, i may get allocated installation work for being naughty,
as the great band Slipknot said People=Sh*T, at least in a factory, People =Clock Number, nothing else!

 

[Jay Sparks]

definetly especially if you want the holiday pay , a mortgage and a van ,

but i do find it easy cash, the only downside is peoples filthy houses chasing out and lofts, but it is also a relaxed atmosphere , none of this health and safety crap they have on big sites

You get your electricians mate to do it lol.

 

[VoltzElectrical]

bye bye piratebillybob.

 

[Dave 85]

There seems to be a couple of undisputed opinions on here and Im gonna dispute both.
1. An electrician cant earn 50k working on his own
2. House bashing is the lowest of the low.

Well you CAN earn 50k....
How?
House bashing....
I know a lot of you won't believe this but I know a few self employed electricians who make 45k+ doing mainly domestic work, usually on their own. I know one who turns £150k+ with 1 or 2 casual mates, which is probably half taxable profit.
I do mainly domestic work, I dont make 50k, but probably nowadays making equivalent to 40-45k on the cards.
Im sure there are a few on this forum who make more than 50k.
Ok so you have to have good contacts, business skills, customer interaction and generally work for the wealthy.

With regards to house bashing...
I love it...
I love rocking up in my trainers, chatting to the various housewives, who are generally very friendly, getting a cuppa and the occasional bacon sarnie, not lugging a 110 transformer around, not having to worry about risk assessments, nonsensical h&s policies or getting told what to do by jobsworths, not having a boss, being able to earn faster by working harder, always being busy whilst working so the days fly by, working with other free thinking self employed trades, constant variation in what I'm doing, rarely being on the same job more than 2 days in a row.....
I could go on for ever...

I know its not everybodys cup of tea, but I'd never do anything else.
I do enjoy doing the odd minor industrial job, little barn/warehouse or summin, bit of SWA trunking and conduit cos you get a bit more job satisfaction than you do smashing holes in things all day, but to work on big sites (which I have done a couple of times for very short periods) is my absolute worst nightmare... do that, dont do this, wear these, dont wear those, dont go here dont use this etc etc.
As is sitting around a factory all day waiting for something to stop working.

Not slating people who do this kinda work, each to their own, but its not for everyone.

 

[TaffyDuck]

There seems to be a couple of undisputed opinions on here and Im gonna dispute both.
1. An electrician cant earn 50k working on his own
2. House bashing is the lowest of the low.

Well you CAN earn 50k....
How?
House bashing....
I know a lot of you won't believe this but I know a few self employed electricians who make 45k+ doing mainly domestic work, usually on their own. I know one who turns £150k+ with 1 or 2 casual mates, which is probably half taxable profit.
I do mainly domestic work, I dont make 50k, but probably nowadays making equivalent to 40-45k on the cards.
Im sure there are a few on this forum who make more than 50k.
Ok so you have to have good contacts, business skills, customer interaction and generally work for the wealthy.

With regards to house bashing...
I love it...
I love rocking up in my trainers, chatting to the various housewives, who are generally very friendly, getting a cuppa and the occasional bacon sarnie, not lugging a 110 transformer around, not having to worry about risk assessments, nonsensical h&s policies or getting told what to do by jobsworths, not having a boss, being able to earn faster by working harder, always being busy whilst working so the days fly by, working with other free thinking self employed trades, constant variation in what I'm doing, rarely being on the same job more than 2 days in a row.....
I could go on for ever...

I know its not everybodys cup of tea, but I'd never do anything else.
I do enjoy doing the odd minor industrial job, little barn/warehouse or summin, bit of SWA trunking and conduit cos you get a bit more job satisfaction than you do smashing holes in things all day, but to work on big sites (which I have done a couple of times for very short periods) is my absolute worst nightmare... do that, dont do this, wear these, dont wear those, dont go here dont use this etc etc.
As is sitting around a factory all day waiting for something to stop working.

Not slating people who do this kinda work, each to their own, but its not for everyone.

Well I agree 100% with you Dave. You can earn a very good living as a self employed sparks. I do. Will someone who comes out of a 6 week course be able to, no chance. In 5 years or so when they have a good customer base, a good amount of experience and a hard earned reputation, then yes. Straight out of "college" whatever form that takes there is no chance whatsoever.

 

[alarm man]

There seems to be a couple of undisputed opinions on here and Im gonna dispute both.
1. An electrician cant earn 50k working on his own
2. House bashing is the lowest of the low.

Well you CAN earn 50k....
How?
House bashing....
I know a lot of you won't believe this but I know a few self employed electricians who make 45k+ doing mainly domestic work, usually on their own. I know one who turns £150k+ with 1 or 2 casual mates, which is probably half taxable profit.
I do mainly domestic work, I dont make 50k, but probably nowadays making equivalent to 40-45k on the cards.
Im sure there are a few on this forum who make more than 50k.
Ok so you have to have good contacts, business skills, customer interaction and generally work for the wealthy.

With regards to house bashing...
I love it...
I love rocking up in my trainers, chatting to the various housewives, who are generally very friendly, getting a cuppa and the occasional bacon sarnie, not lugging a 110 transformer around, not having to worry about risk assessments, nonsensical h&s policies or getting told what to do by jobsworths, not having a boss, being able to earn faster by working harder, always being busy whilst working so the days fly by, working with other free thinking self employed trades, constant variation in what I'm doing, rarely being on the same job more than 2 days in a row.....
I could go on for ever...

I know its not everybodys cup of tea, but I'd never do anything else.
I do enjoy doing the odd minor industrial job, little barn/warehouse or summin, bit of SWA trunking and conduit cos you get a bit more job satisfaction than you do smashing holes in things all day, but to work on big sites (which I have done a couple of times for very short periods) is my absolute worst nightmare... do that, dont do this, wear these, dont wear those, dont go here dont use this etc etc.
As is sitting around a factory all day waiting for something to stop working.

Not slating people who do this kinda work, each to their own, but its not for everyone.

or you confusing turnover with earnings.,also h&s doesnt cease to exsist just because its a domestic enviroment,ie wearing trainers instead of suitable footwear/not wearing eye/ear/head protection its all h&s

 

[ipf]

or you confusing turnover with earnings.,also h&s doesnt cease to exsist just because its a domestic enviroment,ie wearing trainers instead of suitable footwear/not wearing eye/ear/head protection its all h&s

I'm in agreement regarding H+S. We know it's over the top at times but just because there's no proper supervision it doesn't mean accidents wont occur. Insurance to think about too. If an investigation takes place it's important that certain criteria have been met. Just as we're liable for the work we carry out, we're also liable for our safety on site.

 

[TaffyDuck]

or you confusing turnover with earnings.,also h&s doesnt cease to exsist just because its a domestic enviroment,ie wearing trainers instead of suitable footwear/not wearing eye/ear/head protection its all h&s

I agree about the H+S point. But I have been running my business for many years and I do know the difference between profit and turnover. Turnover is vanity, profit is sanity. My income is broadly in line with what Dave is saying, 80% Domestic and before anyone thinks I am ripping old ladies off I live and work in a rural area where word of mouth is how a business thrives. Quality of service, having a good relationship with your clients etc etc.

 

[alarm man]

I agree about the H+S point. But I have been running my business for many years and I do know the difference between profit and turnover. Turnover is vanity, profit is sanity. My income is broadly in line with what Dave is saying, 80% Domestic and before anyone thinks I am ripping old ladies off I live and work in a rural area where word of mouth is how a business thrives. Quality of service, having a good relationship with your clients etc etc.

agree 50k could be eaisly made self employed,theres employed lads making that,but h&s doesnt stop just because your working in someone house

 

[Dave 85]

or you confusing turnover with earnings.,also h&s doesnt cease to exsist just because its a domestic enviroment,ie wearing trainers instead of suitable footwear/not wearing eye/ear/head protection its all h&s

I also am aware of the difference between turnover and profit as my post quite clearly shows. A self employed persons taxable profit on their tax return generally results in more disposable income than the same figure as a salary. This is due to a number of reasons: less NI, the odd bit of cash that gets 'forgotten', the fact that for many people their vehicle, fuel, phone and several other expensis are already paid out of turnover etc etc.

Not exactly sure what the point about health and safety is....I dont need someone to tell me not to stick my tongue in the main fuse and im willing to risk my life using 240v tools. I don't have a written health and safety policy because I dont see any point. I am blessed with a rare and valuable attribute called common sense which has kept me alive so far.

 

[oldtimer]

I agree about the H+S point. But I have been running my business for many years and I do know the difference between profit and turnover. Turnover is vanity, profit is sanity. My income is broadly in line with what Dave is saying, 80% Domestic and before anyone thinks I am ripping old ladies off I live and work in a rural area where word of mouth is how a business thrives. Quality of service, having a good relationship with your clients etc etc.

Yep me to I do electrical repairs and specialise in fault finding and this is down to 36 years experience I am not boasting I find fault finding easy and because of this combination I am in and out with some jobs and most of my customers are grateful and a minority will say well that was easy and I say well I make it look easy but 36 years of doing it is a bit of an advantage for me and that is what I am selling.

 

[alarm man]

I also am aware of the difference between turnover and profit as my post quite clearly shows. A self employed persons taxable profit on their tax return generally results in more disposable income than the same figure as a salary. This is due to a number of reasons: less NI, the odd bit of cash that gets 'forgotten', the fact that for many people their vehicle, fuel, phone and several other expensis are already paid out of turnover etc etc.

Not exactly sure what the point about health and safety is....I dont need someone to tell me not to stick my tongue in the main fuse and im willing to risk my life using 240v tools. I don't have a written health and safety policy because I dont see any point. I am blessed with a rare and valuable attribute called common sense which has kept me alive so far.

cowboy springs to mind,regardless of how you treat yourself or anyone else working for you,you have a duty of care to your customers while working on their premises also

 

[Dave 85]

Yes thats right...
Im a cowboy...