Plumbing in a dishwasher and washing machine.

[Polisher nick]

Can I run a dishwasher and washing machine off a double socket which is off a spur

 

[brianmoooore]

Bad practice, but just about acceptable. Unlikely to cause problems unless both appliances are regularly heating water at the same time.

 

[pirate]

Is the double socket "off a spur" or is the double socket actually a spur, or is the double socket a spur off a spur?

 

[Deleted account]

Dish washer and washing machine on same double socket.
Definately not.

Regs may say yes. I say NO.

I would put good money on that socket will melt and burn out. Far too big a load on one double socket.

@brianmoooore spot on, bad practice. But I disagree with the “unlikely to cause problems”. My money is on melted socket.

as for it being a spur. That is not relevant. 2.5 mm cable will cope with the load. It’s the socket that won’t.

just my opinion.

guidance. And I repeat the word is “ guidance” recommends any appliance over 2 Kw should be on its own dedicated circuit.

 

[brianmoooore]

Pirate's point is an important one. Spur (as I assumed), or spur off of a spur?
If I was doing the job, I'd fit 2 x 1G13A sockets in a dual pattress, but this technically means that one socket is a spur off of a spur (which is not allowed), while the overloaded 2G socket is.

 

[Polisher nick]

Pirate's point is an important one. Spur (as I assumed), or spur off of a spur?
If I was doing the job, I'd fit 2 x 1G13A sockets in a dual pattress, but this technically means that one socket is a spur off of a spur (which is not allowed), while the overloaded 2G socket is.

Hi thanks for reply this is a single socket for for washing machine which is spur off ring maln assume I’m trying to get power to a dishwasher my only other option is a double socket which is supplying a hob ignition and a electric oven and swop for triple socket this again is a spur

 

[brianmoooore]

So you have a single socket, and want to make it into a double? If so, fit double pattress and a 1G socket in each.
As I wrote above, technically contrary to regs, but safe.

 

[Lucien Nunes]

Is the spur fused or unfused? I don't think we've discussed that. If it is fused this is not going to work at all.

If unfused, then it will work but as @Paignton pete points out, many double sockets will be at their thermal limit when both heating elements are on and might have a shortened life. While I agree with that, I think there is more chance of the individual plugs overheating due to their own bad contact and fuse dissipation, than due to the combined load of the two on one double socket. Provided the socket is a top quality one I would not worry as much as if one of the loads was a dryer. That would definitely be pushing one's luck.

my only other option is a double socket which is supplying a hob ignition and a electric oven and swop for triple socket this again is a spur

This won't work. 3-gang sockets are internally fused to 13A total because they are not 'single points' as per BS1363.

For my own purposes I would go with @brianmoooore's suggestion. Note however Pete's last point that you are clocking up some significant load on this ring (oven, washer, dishwasher) and if there are other large loads, (dryer, microwave), you have used up most of its capacity even allowing for diversity, when some of it really ought to be hived off to separate radials. OTOH, most of our house including all the above and a lot more ran on one 30A BS3036 for 30 years.

 

[LastManOnline]

Can I run a dishwasher and washing machine off a double socket which is off a spur

Have you checked the wattage of each appliance?.Are they the newer energy saving ones?

 

[Polisher nick]

So you have a single socket, and want to make it into a double? If so, fit double pattress and a 1G socket in each.
As I wrote above, technically contrary to regs, but safe.

So you have a single socket, and want to make it into a double? If so, fit double pattress and a 1G socket in each.
As I wrote above, technically contrary to regs, but safe.

How do I screw both gangs in

 

[brianmoooore]

Should read "dual pattress", not "double". This essentially two single pattresses,, side by side, in the same moulding.

Dual 29mm Surface Box - White | Crabtree (9044)

 

[littlespark]

A big sign saying “don’t run washing machine and dishwasher at the same time!”

 

[brianmoooore]

A big sign saying “don’t run washing machine and dishwasher at the same time!”

Thing is, there's only excess current drawn when both appliances are heating water at the same time. Dishwasher heats water for fairly long periods during it's cycle, but washing machines, with modern 'green' detergents and low temperature cycles are only drawing high currents for very short periods.

 

[littlespark]

Thing is, there's only excess current drawn when both appliances are heating water at the same time. Dishwasher heats water for fairly long periods during it's cycle, but washing machines, with modern 'green' detergents and low temperature cycles are only drawing high currents for very short periods.

Without knowing exactly when each appliance is on its heating cycle…. Better just to have one on at a time.

 

[Polisher nick]

Should read "dual pattress", not "double". This essentially two single pattresses,, side by side, in the same moulding.

Dual 29mm Surface Box - White | Crabtree (9044)

Thanks for your help I will do that but I can’t understand the difference between this dual pattrass and double socket

 

[telectrix]

Thanks for your help I will do that but I can’t understand the difference between this dual pattrass and double socket

t5he one you will be used to is for a double socket. the one he's referring to is slightly wider with a divider and inboard lugs so as to accept 2 single sockets side by side. reason for using 2 singles is that a single socket is rated 20A whweas a double is 20A total for both sides.
see pic.

 

[Polisher nick]

Bad practice, but just about acceptable. Unlikely to cause problems unless both appliances are regularly heating water at the same time.

Dishwasher is about 1800 kw washer 2000 kw if I have them on separate am I ok I will still use duel pattress

 

[Polisher nick]

t5he one you will be used to is for a double socket. the one he's referring to is slightly wider with a divider and inboard lugs so as to accept 2 single sockets side by side. reason for using 2 singles is that a single socket is rated 20A whweas a double is 20A total for both sides.
see pic.

View attachment 100325

Thanks I am using white plastic surface back box is this ok

 

[telectrix]

Thanks I am using white plastic surface back box is this ok

fine ...............

 

[Polisher nick]

fine ...............

Thanks FB pr

 

[Polisher nick]

With itbeing a spur and only one cable how do I connect two singled

 

[littlespark]

With itbeing a spur and only one cable how do I connect two singled

As explained earlier, you just have to loop from one to the other... Creating a spur from a spur. Of course, not strictly allowed within regs.

 

[telectrix]

this one then. think there's a knock-out between the comoartments.

 

[Polisher nick]

As explained earlier, you just have to loop from one to the other... Creating a spur from a spur. Of course, not strictly allowed within regs.

 

[Polisher nick]

this one then. think there's a knock-out between the comoartments.
View attachment 100329

I will do that then is there any point having switched sockets

 

[littlespark]

you'll find switched sockets are cheaper than unswitched.

Is it just a spur, or is there a switch controlling it above the worktop?

 

[Polisher nick]

you'll find switched sockets are cheaper than unswitched.

Is it just a spur, or is there a switch controlling it above the worktop?

I think just a spur there is a fuse for it on wall opposite on a panel

 

[Avo Mk8]

I think just a spur there is a fuse for it on wall opposite on a panel

What is the rating of that fuse??

 

[Deleted account]

I think just a spur there is a fuse for it on wall opposite on a panel

If it’s coming off a 13A fused switch spur then you are way over the 13A limit.

your two appliances 3.8 Kw about 16 amps running through a 13 A fuse.

back to the drawing board.

you don’t design circuits where the limiting factor relied on is the person using the appliances One at a time.

If that was the case we could wire a whole house on a 2.5 mm radial. And leave it up to the consumer to choose and calculate what can and cannot be on at the same time.

not just bad practice, but bad design.

 

[ipf]

Can I run a dishwasher and washing machine off a double socket which is off a spur

From the thread title, I thought you were on about 'plumbing in' not 'plugging in'.

 

[Petej999]

Dish washer and washing machine on same double socket.
Definately not.

Regs may say yes. I say NO.

I would put good money on that socket will melt and burn out. Far too big a load on one double socket.

@brianmoooore spot on, bad practice. But I disagree with the “unlikely to cause problems”. My money is on melted socket.

as for it being a spur. That is not relevant. 2.5 mm cable will cope with the load. It’s the socket that won’t.

just my opinion.

guidance. And I repeat the word is “ guidance” recommends any appliance over 2 Kw should be on its own dedicated circuit.

Agree NOT an ideal way of installing the machines

 

[Lucien Nunes]

I think just a spur there is a fuse for it on wall opposite on a panel

I did query this back in post 8. No good, fuse won't last long, but while it lasts it will be subjected to repeated low overload which is what we are very much supposed to avoid.

So the next question is whether the fuse is actually needed?

 

[littlespark]

If its a fuse.... then its a fused spur.. no problem with spur off a spur argument.

Although i think this is just a dp switch, without a fuse... apologies to the OP, but terminology may not be correct.

 

[Polisher nick]

I did query this back in post 8. No good, fuse won't last long, but while it lasts it will be subjected to repeated low overload which is what we are very much supposed to avoid.

So the next question is whether the fuse is actually needed?

Will show pic of fuse later

 

[Polisher nick]

I did query this back in post 8. No good, fuse won't last long, but while it lasts it will be subjected to repeated low overload which is what we are very much supposed to avoid.

So the next question is whether the fuse is actually needed?

If the fuse isn’t needed what can I do

 

[telectrix]

yellow pages. look under "electricians"

 

[Polisher nick]

you'll find switched sockets are cheaper than unswitched.

Is it just a spur, or is there a switch controlling it above the worktop?

Right can’t do it that way what about on the other side I put a dual pattrass for dishwasher and oven with an adapter for hob ignition

 

[Polisher nick]

What is the rating of that fuse??

3amp

 

[Polisher nick]

Bad practice, but just about acceptable. Unlikely to cause problems unless both appliances are regularly heating water at the same time.

Hi can I put in a dual pattrass from a spur and run dishwasher and oven and an adapter for hob ignition

 

[Deleted account]

Hi can I put in a dual pattrass from a spur and run dishwasher and oven and an adapter for hob ignition

No
for the same reason as post 4 and post 29.

forget about dual pattresses. I think that was a red herring due to insufficient information .

now we have that information let that idea go.

 

[Polisher nick]

No
for the same reason as post 4 and post 29.

forget about dual pattresses. I think that was a red herring due to insufficient information .

now we have that information let that idea go.

Trouble is you lot all say different fhings

 

[timhoward]

The terminology used has been confusing throughout this post. I'm more inclined to trust pictures than words.
I think the only DIY compatible way forwards is to establish that the device with a 3 amp fuse in it is indeed an FCU, and establish what the cable is connecting it to the single socket.

If we could have
-a photo of the FCU which has the 3 amp fuse in it
-a photo of what we are being told is the single socket the other side of the room that is connected to said FCU
-with the power off, a photo of the wiring behind both of these

...then depending on what the photo's show there might be a relatively easy DIY way out of this.

 

[brianmoooore]

Trouble is you lot all say different fhings

You led us to believe that this is a simple spur off of a RFC. Now it turns out that this is probably not the case.

 

[Deleted account]

Trouble is you lot all say different fhings

Yes . We do. Sorry about that.

it’s difficult without absolute certainty of what is in place To give a definitive answer.

it’s been mentioned picture would help.

We do try to give general help if its a simple thing, but this issue may or may not be simple.

I suspect that you cannot do what you want to do or have been advised to do from the information received.

but I could be wrong as I and everyone else here doesn’t have the full picture.

that’s not your fault. You shouldn’t be expected to know the right terminology for stuff, but it does help when requiring advice.

pictures

fuse board
where the spur is spurred from
the actual spur
general picture of area you working.
anything that may help.

edit: sorry @timhoward your post is near identical, didn’t notice.

 

[mainline]

A big sign saying “don’t run washing machine and dishwasher at the same time!”

Or actually use the timer that is built in to almost every modern washing machine.

 

[ipf]

A little bit of knowledge is often worse than non at all, certainly where DIYer's are concerned.....and the more knowledge that is fed?
I hate to think about many of the results with the inexperienced getting advice, on here even, from people who know the job inside out.
So many unknown factors have to be taken into account...and many will do what they want, regardless.

 

[Mike Johnson]

So many DIY ask a question they think they already know the answer too, then keep asking the same question until they get the response they think is what they need to hear, then go ahead and do it anyway.

 

[davesparks]

Trouble is you lot all say different fhings

Yes, different electricians will solve the same problem in different ways.
There's usually more than one possible solution to the same problem.

 

[Polisher nick]

The terminology used has been confusing throughout this post. I'm more inclined to trust pictures than words.
I think the only DIY compatible way forwards is to establish that the device with a 3 amp fuse in it is indeed an FCU, and establish what the cable is connecting it to the single socket.

If we could have
-a photo of the FCU which has the 3 amp fuse in it
-a photo of what we are being told is the single socket the other side of the room that is connected to said FCU
-with the power off, a photo of the wiring behind both of these

...then depending on what the photo's show there might be a relatively easy DIY way out of this.

I know what I wanted to know

 

[Mike Johnson]

The secret is to ask what you want to know in such a way that you don't get up anyones nose, that way you may get some direct help, your last post is a point in question, why post that, its inflammatory, next time everyone may not be as generous.