Pricing

[Dave 85]

Please tell how he is going to tell that there isn't a taped joint under the floor that's going to work loose in a few weeks time?
It's not about not being a nob mate, it's about doing the job right in such a way that limits your exposure to something that a guy who you don't know has done. The original guy might be the best spark in the world but on the other hand.......

Yes trev but If it were me I'd instantly be able to get a feel for wether the work was good by looking at the stuff that is visible. If it was a decent spark (a lot of the old boys refused to become registered and just carried on as usual) who had done everthing visible perfectly well then the odds of there being a hidden connection so poor that it suddenly comes loose are slim to none if you ask me.

You talk a lot about reputation but im pretty sure if I had a reputation for being a total jobsworth and getting on my high horse over tiny little things I'd probably be sat on this forum all day every day telling people to walk away from jobs as opposed to out working 6 days a week.

Im sorry if it seems Im having a pop mate, no offence is itended, I just can't understand your mentality.

 

[trev]

Ok I agree that if you're following on from someone you can get a feel for what's happened before you got there. If it were a decent spark then fair enough but if you didn't know who it was then are you going to be prepared to sign an EIC? I know I wouldn't. The comment about the hidden joint was merely worst case scenario.
Yes, I've talked a bit on this thread about reputation, I don't believe that makes me a jobsworth, I don't get on a high horse about little things. If I'm following on from someone else I'm always going to make sure that my arse is covered and that everything I do is correct, I believe that that is normal course of action in many trades not just our own. I, as you appear to be, am pretty busy right now although there are some days that I refuse to work on EG I'd rather spend my Saturdays rolling around with our grandson.
When I'm on here I think that apart from the crack we are duty bound to give people the best advice we can and if that means sometimes advising guys to walk away then so be it.
I know that you weren't having a pop mate but hopefully that kind of explains my mentality

 

[Dave 85]

Ok I agree that if you're following on from someone you can get a feel for what's happened before you got there. If it were a decent spark then fair enough but if you didn't know who it was then are you going to be prepared to sign an EIC? I know I wouldn't. The comment about the hidden joint was merely worst case scenario.
Yes, I've talked a bit on this thread about reputation, I don't believe that makes me a jobsworth, I don't get on a high horse about little things. If I'm following on from someone else I'm always going to make sure that my arse is covered and that everything I do is correct, I believe that that is normal course of action in many trades not just our own. I, as you appear to be, am pretty busy right now although there are some days that I refuse to work on EG I'd rather spend my Saturdays rolling around with our grandson.
When I'm on here I think that apart from the crack we are duty bound to give people the best advice we can and if that means sometimes advising guys to walk away then so be it.
I know that you weren't having a pop mate but hopefully that kind of explains my mentality

You seem like a decent chap Trev and you're obviously trying to do the right thing. I think I just have a rather less cautious approach to life than some people, and tend to make my own rules to an extent. Its nice to be able to have a proper debate with someone who has differing views to me without them resorting to calling me a cowboy/Electrical Trainee (Neither of which I am) not mentioning any names *cough* alarm man.
Glad to hear you're busy.

 

[Des 56]

I think trevs advise is sensible and anyone doing different needs to re examine their ways

An Eic is suppposed to be compiled by the installer/designer/tester
If you want to get involved with anothers installation,then there are 3 part forms for that
If the deigner/installer are not around to sign their bit,then you cannot complete the eic without lying through your teeth ,that you actually did the design and the construction

Whether you do that or no is entirely up to you,its your decision and your back for any rods
Someone would have to be some right sort of gullable creature to take responsibility

Unlikely that any situation would arise where injury or death occured,but why for goodness sake make yourself vulnerable to that possibility
If you do an eicr and its not accepted,then you have made the effort and let others sort out the problem

I have many sparky mates who are competent but not registered,why would I or anyone want to cover their mis demeanours,this coming from someone who is registered but has no time whatsoever for part nonsense

 

[Spazz]

Dazzel sorry if I sounded a bit harsh, it just said to me straight away that your looking after someone else before yourself and that is something that really gets on my nerves - I live with it daily with my misses putting hr mother before herself.

As said talk to LABC and then if they are happy do a EICR.

You said about this sparky disappearing but noone disappears without a good reason - no payment - crap attitude from other trades/customer, etc

Are you shore that the builder (your mate you have known for a few months) didn't do the wiring and trying to pull a fast one. If this was the case he will d it again.

I have a builder who did work on the flat upstairs, asked me for months can I do a rewire - ya certainly.
Then after 2 months I popped in and he was just finishing doing the rewire himself - he asked me to check it (as the customer was not willing to pay for a sparky) and sign it off - 2 words **** ***.

I not seen him since - he now gets another spark to sign off his electric work.
Also found out last week that he used to be NICEIC - he lost his registration as he was classed as dangerous - and hes still doing electrical work and any problems that he has now get passed over to the other spark.

This is the worst case scenario - but I could of lost my NAPIT or even been sitting in front of them with wigs trying to persuade them that I didn't do it, when I signed a document saying I did.
The builder didn't care about me of my future! He only cared about himself.

By the way LABC & Public Safety are now looking for him - nothing to do with me - I found this out when I was talking to them about the RCD matter on the other page

 

[Dazzol2009]

Thanks nicholas for your reply , the builder in question is a friend of mine, but only since I have been working with him, he done my own extention 6 months back, he was impressed with my work and attitude, he worked with previous sparky for several years, but just can't get hold of him, the job was all gone and paid for , just not certificated for whatever reason, previous 6 months before I came on board he had be getting local authority to do alot of his work, but they were expensive and timekeeping was an issue, I will go down LABC and EIBC route, and thank everyone for making me more aware of the politics side of the industry.

 

[trev]

You seem like a decent chap Trev and you're obviously trying to do the right thing. I think I just have a rather less cautious approach to life than some people, and tend to make my own rules to an extent. Its nice to be able to have a proper debate with someone who has differing views to me without them resorting to calling me a cowboy/Electrical Trainee (Neither of which I am) not mentioning any names *cough* alarm man.
Glad to hear you're busy.

Unless there's glaringly obvious proof I would never call anyone a cowboy mate. One of the reasons I like the forum so much is that you can usually have a little debate without getting uptight or getting others uptight.

 

[Spudnik]

Heres a thing.

If LABC have been involved from day one, it is THEIR responsibility.

1.21 Where notifiable electrical installer work is carried out by a person not registered with a Part P competent person self-certification the work should be notified to a building control body (the local authority or an approved inspector) before work starts. Where the work is necessary because of an emergency the building control body should be notified as soon as possible. The building control body becomes responsible for making sure the work is safe
and complies with all relevant requirements of the Building Regulations.

 

[Dazzol2009]

Good point Jason, here's what happend a so called sparky we will call him Joe Bloggs for now, basically done an Installation or extention of circuits for a extention, building control were informed as part of the building regs and obviously inspected the building work while that was doing on, if joe bloggs done the electrical work but didnt certify it and can not be contacted, are you saying that it is LABC responsability now, if this is the case and they take responsability will they charge for that even though the customer has already payed for it once, or should all be covered within the initial building regs charge.

 

[Spudnik]

Its a bit of a grey area to be honest.

As far as i am concerned, if they were notified of the building works, and the client had paid for the usual building regs etc, it is down to the LABC, however, they should be informed of the proposed electrical works.

Note, its says "should" not "must".

Mind you, a polite conversation with them saying that the original sparky has done a runner, and the only way that you are happy to certify it, is via an EICR.

If they still refuse, then its down to them, end of.

Most of the time, they are happy to accept an EICR, but its not always the case.

I suggest you call them tomorrow.

 

[Spazz]

have a look at your local authority website and have a look at the building control page.

They should have a pricing structure there.

You will see that there are different prices for different jobs.

Notifying of building work - e.g. an extension will be one fee
Notifying of electrical work will be an additional fee

You need to find out what they where notified and paid for - then those areas they are legally responsible and no more.
Yes sometimes (very rear) good will comes in and they do other parts as well

give them a call explain the situation and they will advice you where and how to go next. They are the ones who will be signing this off at the end of the day - and everyone on here is just guessing - no-one has a clue what they are going to say to you when you call them!

 

[Jay Sparks]

I have done EICRs for customers that have had building/electrical work done and it hasnt been certificated, or notified and the customer has asked the LABC if this was ok and they said yes, as long as its a 100% one and concerns all of the new circuits etc.
I think most LABCs accept an EICR in these circumstances.

Jay

 

[Dazzol2009]

Thanks Jason, I was going to do that anyway, but thanks for your opinion

 

[Guitarist]

There seems to be a growing trend of electricians taking work on, getting paid then not signing it off because *drum roll please* they are not part P registered. Strangely, they can't be contacted again....

Not saying this is the case for you mate, but when someone asks me to certify someone else's work I just ask them why the hell they didn't come to me in the first place if they trust my signature.

Edit... Sorry, I know the answer....it is because they were "cheap". Reap what you sow guys, reap what you sow....

 

[trev]

There seems to be a growing trend of electricians taking work on, getting paid then not signing it off

This comes back to what we've all said time and again. The customer is usually blissfully unaware of what the "electrician" should or should not be doing, I've had customers ring me a few days after a job asking why I've sent them "This bit of paper"
If our wonderful government actually gave a damn they would publicise what customers should be expecting from us

 

[Spudnik]

Same here Trev.

 

[Dazzol2009]

Very true guys, I think its one of the very few industries in the world, where alot of people think they can do it themselves, how wrong they are.

 

[trev]

My all time favourite call is, and we've all had it, "I bought this light from --- and tried to put it up and the fuse blows/ RCD trips when I turn it on"

 

[Dazzol2009]

or when they have tried to install a new board by themselves, and you get called in to fix it, well the old board was ok, so the new one must be faulty, nothing to do with the no idea how electrics work

 

[jase]

Ok guys thanks for advice, as part of a proffesion that is responsable for health and safety at a high level, does the homeowner have the right to be told if his house is safe or not, and if the sparky that done the orinal work is a bit dodgy are we not lowering our standards to their level by turning a blind eye.

That is why you do a EICR, anything found that is not inline with the regs or potentially dangerous is recorded and given a code, it is then not your responsibility, but the homeowners on wether they want to rectify any discrepencies