Regs on UG cable depth and marking

[Silly Sausage]

That smells a little to me, Positively reeks...

It seems to me that this Electrician is being protected/looked after by various parties.
The word 'Lodge' springs to my mind.

 

[Guitarist]

Local lad, great spark, salt of the earth, what could go wrong?

 

[Tafia]

Any thoughts on the likelyhood that the NIC inspector would say all was OK with the cables even though they weren't deep enough and had no warning tape or tiles above them?

T.

 

[ruston]

Was the inspector there when the cable was installed/ before it was backfilled?

 

[sedgy34]

Haven't read all this thread but I would imagine The inspector can only inspect what he sees not underground he could ask how deep is it and take the answer as the truth as long as its as it says in the regs

 

[Tafia]

Was the inspector there when the cable was installed/ before it was backfilled?

No; sparky said he took the inspector to the church to see the job as part of his regular inspection by the NIC.

That was about 18 months after he installed the first lamp and several months after the other lamps were installed.

Grass has obviously grown over some cable runs so they are invisible. One has been cut into a Tarmac path; a slot about 2 inches wide.

I would have thought the right way for the NIC chap to proceed would be to see a list of jobs and then select the ones he wanted to see for himself rather than have the sparky pick which ones to show him.

 

[ruston]

To be fair then the inspector would have no way of knowing how deep the cable was laid except for the word of the installer. As I said previously it is hearsay anyway. Given what I have heard about Nice inspectors I doubt very much that they would condone any sort of non conforming installations.


A cable can be laid with a mole and leave little or no trace, as you have said it was dug in, but just for your information.

 

[malcolmsanford]

I would have thought the right way for the NIC chap to proceed would be to see a list of jobs and then select the ones he wanted to see for himself rather than have the sparky pick which ones to show him.

Unfortunately though that would be an ideal scenario in reality it would be virtually impossible to do. As a contractor you do have to rely on the good will of your customer in something like this. There could be access problems getting in on the day of the assessment, there could also be that the customer refuses to allow access, and of course you may have had problems with this particular customer, due to many cases no fault of the contractor, and so the last thing you want is to take an assessor there to have a new one ripped off you.

Regards to the assessment and the NICEIC approving it. As the thread as said with regards to the Regs about the only thing really that your contractor could be pulled up on is marking tape and lack of it. The depth and things like that is open to interpretation as per regulation 522.8.10

You may find that the assessor did pull him on the lack of tape but the depth issue may have been explained off. So the contractor may just be telling you that the NICEIC said no problem with that and is just omitted other details, it really is hard to say

 

[Tafia]

Ruston,

Yes, when I was sparking, the NIC inspectors were known to do things by the book. No point in being a member otherwise. I assume this sparky will have signed the installation certificates to say all work complied with the Regs!

 

[Tafia]

Unfortunately though that would be an ideal scenario in reality it would be virtually impossible to do. As a contractor you do have to rely on the good will of your customer in something like this. There could be access problems getting in on the day of the assessment, there could also be that the customer refuses to allow access, and of course you may have had problems with this particular customer, due to many cases no fault of the contractor, and so the last thing you want is to take an assessor there to have a new one ripped off you.

Regards to the assessment and the NICEIC approving it. As the thread as said with regards to the Regs about the only thing really that your contractor could be pulled up on is marking tape and lack of it. The depth and things like that is open to interpretation as per regulation 522.8.10

You may find that the assessor did pull him on the lack of tape but the depth issue may have been explained off. So the contractor may just be telling you that the NICEIC said no problem with that and is just omitted other details, it really is hard to say

Well, I suspect the sparky may have 'forgotten' to mention there was a trench for a sewage pipe to be dug along the paths (which he was told about by the rector) and that he had laid two cables at right angles to the route of the trench, a few inches down with no tape to warn diggers.

Some of my fellow councillors seem to think that because the job is neatly done and the lights come on when the time switch operates, then all is well. A little more to it than that, isn't there?

 

[ruston]

The strangest part of this job to me is why the work was given the go ahead in the first place when it was known that major works were to be carried out in the near future, especially in the same route that the cable was to take. The cable at any reasonable depth would still be a consideration here.

 

[malcolmsanford]

Tafia let me put this in another light, what if the sparks as said when given the job

"Ahhhh you have plans to dig this all up again to lay sewage pipes, OK what I will do is just a temp set up for now, when you are going to start digging the new trench, let me know I'll come back disconnect the cables and take them out, and once the trench is dug I'll relay my cable deeper etc etc"

 

[Knobhead]

I would ask the OP what his personal axe to grind is. You say you was an electrician, did you tender for the work?

This isn’t a matter for an on-line discussion forum, it should be aired in the open, in the council chamber.

 

[Tafia]

Tafia let me put this in another light, what if the sparks as said when given the job

"Ahhhh you have plans to dig this all up again to lay sewage pipes, OK what I will do is just a temp set up for now, when you are going to start digging the new trench, let me know I'll come back disconnect the cables and take them out, and once the trench is dug I'll relay my cable deeper etc etc"

Hmmm. During the time I missed two monthly meetings the sparky submitted his account and it was paid. It was only when I chanced to visit the church yard that I spotted the cuts in the turf and realised the cables could not be very deep.

As far as the sparks was concerned, the job was finished and paid for back then. As I mentioned, it took 18 months of tooth pulling for him to finally provide the Installation Certs and he would not have provided the cable plan had I not pushed the matter.

 

[Tafia]

I would ask the OP what his personal axe to grind is. You say you was an electrician, did you tender for the work?

This isn’t a matter for an on-line discussion forum, it should be aired in the open, in the council chamber.

I have no axe to grind sir. I just want the work done as it should be. If you read the thread, you will see that the work was not put out to tender.

I have been banging on abut this with my council colleagues for months but no-one else sees ( or wants to see)the problem. I am now retired having spent my final years with the electricity board - as it was known before takeover - at a polyphase meter testing station.

 

[Mark_Burgess]

I would not warn the other contractors and let the minidigger rip the cable up, it would be funny to see the other spark come back to put it right and get a rollocking for not installing it correctly with depth and tape.

 

[Tafia]

I would not warn the other contractors and let the minidigger rip the cable up, it would be funny to see the other spark come back to put it right and get a rollocking for not installing it correctly with depth and tape.

Well, that would teach my fellow councillors that they should listen when they are shown positive evidence of poor installation. As I said, sparky later admitted in writing he didn't install the warning tape as the cables weren't deep enough

 

[JD6400]

The lack of warning tape is a unacceptable in my opinion and he should be made to come back and install it !
As for the other contractors digging through the cable , if they have not bothered to cat scan it first or ask those in charge of the property if there is anything they should know about the run they are about to dig , then they deserve all they get .

 

[nickblake]

i have had situations where you cant get the cable deep enough have always used marker tape and indicated that the cable is below the surface with engraved signs at each end

 

[trev]

Tafia, I think in your position I'd be pretty bloody minded right now and wanting to prove the point. Why not isolate the circuit and get a pickaxe out, couple of good swings and I'd bet you'd have the cable in your hands.