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Discuss Retrospective Regulations in the Electrical Wiring, Theories and Regulations area at ElectrciansForums.co.uk.

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  1. ThrownRazor25
    Offline

    ThrownRazor25 Regular EF Member

    Hi all,

    Just looking for opinions on a popular dispute between our guys.

    Are the regulations retrospective?

    By this i mean would you add to a ring main or install a socket without RCD protection?
    Would you do the same with lights now as per new 18th edition?
    If doing an EICR you see trunking up high which the cables come come loose in the event of a fire but do not fit clip as "it complied with a previous edition of the regulations"

    This last statement is something i hear time and time again and it is something i totally dismiss. The regs are there to be followed.
     
  2. Andy78
    Online

    Andy78 Respected Member

    Location:
    Kingston upon Hull
    The work you do has to comply with current regs. How you achieve this is up to you but it only pertains to the work being done and not any of the existing installation with the exception of fundamental requirements such as earthing and bonding.

    When inspecting an older installation "it complied at time of install" has nowt to do with it. We inspect using the current standard against which to evaluate danger or potential danger.

    References
    introduction to BS7671
    132.16
    Section 621
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
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  3. Murdoch
    Offline

    Murdoch Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Woking
    The 18th regulation on luminaries is plain daft imho
     
  4. ThrownRazor25
    Offline

    ThrownRazor25 Regular EF Member

    I totally agree with both of the above points.

    Some of the sparks i know would happily spur a new socket off a ring main which has rewireable fuses with no rcd protection and say the circuit complied with a previous edition wtf?

    I think the new lighting reg is daft too but it is there regardless so am i right in saying that in future if changing a light the circuit has no rcd you should be installing one to additionally protect the circuit? Some of my guys are saying clients wont agree to that! A cheap job has just become an expensive job. I dont buy that answer at all the regs are there to be followed of not then what is the point?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. SparkyChick
    Online

    SparkyChick Making a banana smoothy for my fave gorilla Staff Member Moderator

    Location:
    South Wales
    Business Name:
    SparkyChick
    The problem is, the public... they have no clue about the regulations and the IET (in my opinion at least) don't do enough to educate them.

    So when you rock up, give a dam, and quote to do a compliant safe job you're going to be more expensive than Dangerous Dave who doesn't give a fig about little issues like no RCD protection or the earthing and bonding.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Like Like x 1
  6. Andy78
    Online

    Andy78 Respected Member

    Location:
    Kingston upon Hull
    They don't know their job then. Section 110 sets out what the regs apply to.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  7. Fitzy
    Offline

    Fitzy Newly Qualified Sparky

    Location:
    Redhill
    Business Name:
    DF Electrical Services
    So when changing a light under the 18th edition and the lighting circuit has no RCD protection and the consumer unit has no room to instal said RCD, what are we to do? As said previously a cheap £25 light change job becomes “sorry, but you need a new £500+ consumer unit installed, because the circuit now requires RCD protection”, ‘oh thank you Mr Electrician, please turn this simple cheap job in to an expensive rip off job, just wait there while I go contact BBC Watchdog’.....
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. Andy78
    Online

    Andy78 Respected Member

    Location:
    Kingston upon Hull
    Or provide a stand alone RCD, or RCD FCU for a circuit alteration.

    Changing a light fitting would not be a circuit alteration in my eyes.

    I do agree it's a stupid new reg though.
     
    • Agree Agree x 7
  9. Ian1981
    Offline

    Ian1981 Forum Mentor

    Location:
    North east
    If it is like for like maintenance jobs then you are not altering or adding to the existing installation so rcd protection need not be installed but can always be mentioned and the customer made aware along with some of the basic inspection and testing (ZS) for example
     
    • Agree Agree x 6
  10. davesparks
    Online

    davesparks Forum Mentor

    Location:
    guildford
    Anything you install now should comply with the current regulations.

    An EICR carried out now should be carried out to the current regulations, however you only report on items concerning safety, you don’t report on items which don’t comply but have no effect on safety.
    For example the old colours don’t comply, but don’t effect the safety of the installation.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  11. Ben Keer
    Offline

    Ben Keer EF Member

    Location:
    Banstead

    Is there anything in the bs7671 regs book itself that back this up. I agree with you in that the work carried out should comply but not necessarily back dated to the whole installation if you are only working on 1 circuit.

    I've recently been roasted because of this and looking for some clarification to come back with if the subject arrises again.
     
  12. richy3333
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    richy3333 Forum Mentor

    Is it a ring main?

    Seems a simple question to me? If ‘your guys’ can’t interpret simple Regs, maybe you need new ‘guys’ why are they arguing!?
     
  13. Ben Keer
    Offline

    Ben Keer EF Member

    Location:
    Banstead
    No it was a new circuit out on the eve side of a splitload board so everything with the newly installed circuit was compliant. I was told that the other 4 lighting/other mcbs (not worked on) should have been replaced for rcbos to make them compliant even though they were never touched.
     
  14. Murdoch
    Offline

    Murdoch Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Woking
    Who told you that?
     
  15. Ben Keer
    Offline

    Ben Keer EF Member

    Location:
    Banstead
    Niceic domestic installer scheme inspector!!!
     
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