If the CU is changed it MUST be up to current regs (at least dual RCD), so yes that would be a violation. Would I report it, probably not, but I would inform the client so they can decide whether they wish to. If it was reported would LABC do anything about it, probably not.
- Thread starter Worcester
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Im not saying that at all, what Im asking is what are the MCS and REAL prepared to do. If they are going to take the line that poor workmanship or installations will not be condoned, then are they going to prosecute, and if they do when they get someone in a court of law, what standards are they going to present to say that a certain contractor as not upheld these standards.
It is easy for people to decry standards or workmanship, it is a totally different ball game to prove that one persons installation is below a standard that to my knowledge does not exist. Because someone says that is poor, is it? and what evidence do they base that on, it looks poor, I would not do that? ..................is there a book or guide that uphelds and proports a certain standard?
The OP was down to someone driving around and just from a physical observation decided that 4 installations were "sub standard", and my point is in what way is it? Becasue they would not have installed it that way?
As far as Im aware the REAL ensure that you dont sell a system with bogus information, and the MCS is basically a scheme that will allow your system acreditation to recieve the FIT.
I Know that the PV side of our industry is new, and it seems that you guys want to do work to standards, which I endorse. I have been in the industry 40 years and as I said during that whole time there will be people who will undercut you and do work that you consider poor.
Let me ask one thing if you did call the MCS and REAL with a complaint that you have observed an installation that is in your opinion is of a poor standard, what will they do?
So we are in a situation here where unlike the complaints procedure of other Electrical schemes where it is the client that can make a complaint as in the Part P, the REAL scheme is looking for fellow members of the industry to police it.
So we could have a situation of gestapo type contractors that have lost out on a job, and decide that they are not happy with the winning contractors work and file a complaint. If at worse it is a bogus complaint it will get the winning contractor losing time filling in a myriad of forms and questionaires that something like this will generate, and so affecting his business. Because as sure as eggs are eggs these acreditation schemes will love a form and questionaire.
I've read the REAL code of practice and in the section marked design installation it just refers you back to section 2.3 which then refers you back to the MCS acreditation, which from there directs you to your scheme providor.............so it will be like the Part P standard, where I think in the 6 odd years the schemes have been running, I don't personally know of anyone being kicked out of one, and I would imagine very few throughout the country have.
So the REAL do not have an actual standard of workmanship, they will leave that to the schemes to decide, and as any contractor in the industry is paying well over 500 pounds a year to be a member of a scheme, I'm pretty sure they will not be in an hurry to throw out a cash cow ........................
Welcome guys to Part P ..........becasue that is what you have in reality and what I have been advocating all along, it's a good idea, a wonderful chance, that will never ever come to fruitition as long as independant schemes run as a profit making institution.
My mother received a visit from Solartricity on Friday. 80 years old lives alone etc. She was pursuaded to sign up for a deal and paid a deposit of £3,230 for a £13k installation - 1.62kWp!
I have spoken to these rogues and cancelled the contract. They tell me they have refunded the money I am waiting until Friday to see if it registers in my mothers account. Then I am into trading standards etc. If you want a scanned copy of all the documents then once my mum's money is back I have the pack. They need drumming out of the market quick.
Jer
Discuss Rogue Installers in the Solar PV Forum | Solar Panels Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net
G
goodwilld
I would reprot them to - Trading Standards, MCS and REAl that will sort the cowboys out!!!!
J
judgeelectrical
i think Worcester has a very good point here. Its no good turning a blind eye, why should we have to comply with all facets of the regulations, do your job correctly , and get beaton on a quote by someone who just lashes it in and clears off. I ve seen one really messy install which to be quite honest made me feel ill . We need to protect our work , price and industry by outing the cowboys ,
report um all
Keep up the gppd work
report um all
Keep up the gppd work
- Reaction score
- 3,011
Is shoddy workmanship, cowboys and lash ups a new concept? As long as there as been an electrical industry, building , plumbing or whatever you will be undercut and work will be taken off you by the shoody contractor, that is human nature, some customesr wants the cheapest he can get everytime, the rest are discerning enough to know that cheapest does not equate to best.
The only way to really counteract it is to maintain your own standards and unless PV is completely different, the majority of your work will be referrals, as the majority of all electrical work is.
Im not sure what the REAL. MCS or any other body scope of responibiliy is, but is it to police the standards of installations and if it is what powers have they got to to maintain a standard, and more to the point what desire, as they like all the bogus schemes in our industry rely on contributions from the contractor, and I would imagine they would be loathe to remove a paying member from their charge becasue a panel overhangs a roof, or the cables are not going through the roof 100% correct.
The only way to really counteract it is to maintain your own standards and unless PV is completely different, the majority of your work will be referrals, as the majority of all electrical work is.
Im not sure what the REAL. MCS or any other body scope of responibiliy is, but is it to police the standards of installations and if it is what powers have they got to to maintain a standard, and more to the point what desire, as they like all the bogus schemes in our industry rely on contributions from the contractor, and I would imagine they would be loathe to remove a paying member from their charge becasue a panel overhangs a roof, or the cables are not going through the roof 100% correct.
J
judgeelectrical
I am not saying you should go around searcing for shoddy workmanship, but if i came across it , why not report it to the relavant bodies, after all , what are they there for , i would of thought to up hold standards. It takes a massive ammount of time effort and money to qualify for the MCS , so standards should be maintained.
S
SRE
I'm not sure i understand your logic Malcolm are you saying that because it's always been like that it should stay like that? Maybe scientists should have left dna where it was after all we didn't need it before did we .....
- Reaction score
- 3,011
Im not saying that at all, what Im asking is what are the MCS and REAL prepared to do. If they are going to take the line that poor workmanship or installations will not be condoned, then are they going to prosecute, and if they do when they get someone in a court of law, what standards are they going to present to say that a certain contractor as not upheld these standards.
It is easy for people to decry standards or workmanship, it is a totally different ball game to prove that one persons installation is below a standard that to my knowledge does not exist. Because someone says that is poor, is it? and what evidence do they base that on, it looks poor, I would not do that? ..................is there a book or guide that uphelds and proports a certain standard?
The OP was down to someone driving around and just from a physical observation decided that 4 installations were "sub standard", and my point is in what way is it? Becasue they would not have installed it that way?
As far as Im aware the REAL ensure that you dont sell a system with bogus information, and the MCS is basically a scheme that will allow your system acreditation to recieve the FIT.
I Know that the PV side of our industry is new, and it seems that you guys want to do work to standards, which I endorse. I have been in the industry 40 years and as I said during that whole time there will be people who will undercut you and do work that you consider poor.
Let me ask one thing if you did call the MCS and REAL with a complaint that you have observed an installation that is in your opinion is of a poor standard, what will they do?
S
SRE
Have done and it was greatfully received. Real have asked for more information I've reported misselling and poor installations in 3 circumstances. It wasn't petty stuff but serious breaches that I have come across during my work. Not sure what happened after the call but Real said they couldn't do anything without actual jobs to visit, companies to do checks on - they appreciated specific information rather than hearsay.
R
Ramjam
I implore you all to write to REAL and demand that they put a procedure in place to receive complaints about REAL members from REAL members.
REAL will tell you that they are very interested to hear about complaints about members from members and that they will take them seriously. They are not taking them seriously unless they have a procedure that we can see that they follow.
The renewables industry has the possibility to cast out cowboys, never before has a new domestic trade been so tightly regulated. If we lobby REAL to tackle rogue installers then they are in a position to police the industry. We pay their salaries, they should do their job.
REAL code requires complainace with MCS, MCS requires complieance with the DTI guide and BS7671. In all of these documents there is enough ammo to shoot down any shabby install as non-compliant with the REAL code. Non-compliance leads to suspension/expulsion or for minor infringments remdiation and close observation. The rules are already in place, we all need to lobby REAL to do their job.
DO IT NOW, SEND AN EMAIL TO [email protected] to demand that they put in place a transparent procedure to deal with complaints from members.
REAL will tell you that they are very interested to hear about complaints about members from members and that they will take them seriously. They are not taking them seriously unless they have a procedure that we can see that they follow.
The renewables industry has the possibility to cast out cowboys, never before has a new domestic trade been so tightly regulated. If we lobby REAL to tackle rogue installers then they are in a position to police the industry. We pay their salaries, they should do their job.
REAL code requires complainace with MCS, MCS requires complieance with the DTI guide and BS7671. In all of these documents there is enough ammo to shoot down any shabby install as non-compliant with the REAL code. Non-compliance leads to suspension/expulsion or for minor infringments remdiation and close observation. The rules are already in place, we all need to lobby REAL to do their job.
DO IT NOW, SEND AN EMAIL TO [email protected] to demand that they put in place a transparent procedure to deal with complaints from members.
- Reaction score
- 3,011
So we are in a situation here where unlike the complaints procedure of other Electrical schemes where it is the client that can make a complaint as in the Part P, the REAL scheme is looking for fellow members of the industry to police it.
So we could have a situation of gestapo type contractors that have lost out on a job, and decide that they are not happy with the winning contractors work and file a complaint. If at worse it is a bogus complaint it will get the winning contractor losing time filling in a myriad of forms and questionaires that something like this will generate, and so affecting his business. Because as sure as eggs are eggs these acreditation schemes will love a form and questionaire.
I've read the REAL code of practice and in the section marked design installation it just refers you back to section 2.3 which then refers you back to the MCS acreditation, which from there directs you to your scheme providor.............so it will be like the Part P standard, where I think in the 6 odd years the schemes have been running, I don't personally know of anyone being kicked out of one, and I would imagine very few throughout the country have.
So the REAL do not have an actual standard of workmanship, they will leave that to the schemes to decide, and as any contractor in the industry is paying well over 500 pounds a year to be a member of a scheme, I'm pretty sure they will not be in an hurry to throw out a cash cow ........................
Welcome guys to Part P ..........becasue that is what you have in reality and what I have been advocating all along, it's a good idea, a wonderful chance, that will never ever come to fruitition as long as independant schemes run as a profit making institution.
- Reaction score
- 362
Sadly, Malcolm you are correct!
J
jer05
My mother received a visit from Solartricity on Friday. 80 years old lives alone etc. She was pursuaded to sign up for a deal and paid a deposit of £3,230 for a £13k installation - 1.62kWp!
I have spoken to these rogues and cancelled the contract. They tell me they have refunded the money I am waiting until Friday to see if it registers in my mothers account. Then I am into trading standards etc. If you want a scanned copy of all the documents then once my mum's money is back I have the pack. They need drumming out of the market quick.
Jer
G
Graeme Harrold
Seaward Solar's first newsletter highlights the problems in other countries, wonder how long it will take for someone to do a survey in the UK on installation standards.....
C
Cider
As the first post says poor installs going in everywhere around me.
Its pretty obvious that alot of companies have been set up to sell sell sell now, and shut down in a few years when the market is dead.
Therefore there will be no company to retribute for the problems when they show up.
Quality install has to be a massive selling point and make it clear in sales blurb how it must and must not be done.
Its pretty obvious that alot of companies have been set up to sell sell sell now, and shut down in a few years when the market is dead.
Therefore there will be no company to retribute for the problems when they show up.
Quality install has to be a massive selling point and make it clear in sales blurb how it must and must not be done.
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