shavers only ! toothbrush charging debate.

[NICKYNUNN]

Hi all, I'm trying to get a clear answer regarding whether or not you can use a shaver point to charge an electric toothbrush.
The main opinions I've collected so far are
1. You can't, they are not designed for long periods of use which electric toothbrush charging would require.
2. You can, the "shaver only" notice is just to stop people trying to plug in euro 2 pin hairdryers etc.
Ive seen an MK shaver point with symbols suggesting you can use it for both shavers and electric toothbrushes, not sure how this unit differentiates itself electrically from most other "shaver only" products on the market.
It has been hard to find a solid answer from a respectable source regarding this.
Any opinions?

 

[freddo]

It's fine, you can plug in whatever you like as long as you don't exceed the 20VA rating of the sockets transformer.

1. You can't, they are not designed for long periods of use which electric toothbrush charging would require.

What about rechargeable shavers...

 

[NICKYNUNN]

It's fine, you can plug in whatever you like as long as you don't exceed the 20VA rating of the sockets transformer.

What about rechargeable shavers...

Thanks for reply. I'm guessing that those that say it's not suitable for recharging toothbrushes are also saying it's not suitable for charging shavers? They might think it is only suitable to plug your shaver in on the curly cord, have a shave then unplug? There was a surprising amount of difference in opinion when I looked into it :/

 

[westward10]

No you should use a socket which indicates it is suitable for both such as this.

MK Shaver Socket

20VA

www.toolstation.com

 

[freddo]

No you should use a socket which indicates it is suitable for both such as this.

I contacted one manufacturer last year and they stated both shavers and toothbrushes were ok to use on their sockets that displayed shavers only.

 

[westward10]

Shaver sockets are generally not happy being left energised for a long duration and the same applies to the charging of both shavers and toothbrushes. The original intention of a shaver socket was that it was used for a short duration whilst the shaver was in use before the days of rechargeable units but it is possible manufacturers realise this and changed the design so it probably may not matter.

 

[NICKYNUNN]

Shaver sockets are generally not happy being left energised for a long duration and the same applies to the charging of both shavers and toothbrushes. The original intention of a shaver socket was that it was used for a short duration whilst the shaver was in use before the days of rechargeable units but it is possible manufacturers realise this and changed the design so it probably may not matter.

So it still looks like a very grey area, I have written to the NICEIC to get there opinion and I will try and contact MK (Honeywell?) and see what makes their shaver socket with the toothbrush symbol different to the shaver only sockets...if indeed it is any different.

 

[timhoward]

It's an interesting question. Crabtree make two ranges, one saying Shavers Only, one not.
Both state they comply with BS EN 61558-2-5, so obviously both have an isolating transformer in them.

Regarding the first range, Crabtree have previously said:
"Hello. We would not advise the use of electronic toothbrushes in our shaver supply units for the sole reason of the British Standard that we have tested them to (BS EN 61558-2-5). The standard does not require the testing of other electronic devices so we cannot assure any compatibility with our product unless specifically rated for the input/output of 115/230V. Thank you for your interest in our Crabtree brand".

The range that doesn't say "shavers only" clearly states it has a transformer rated at 20VA on the datasheet and this seems to be the key difference.
There's also an MK unit that actually shows a toothbrush on the faceplate and this also states it has a 20VA rated transformer.
Spot the price difference!

https://www.NoLinkingToThis/p/mk-al...ts/222ff#product_additional_details_container

So it probably simply comes down to cheaper transformers with thinner windings in the other products, that would get rather hot / overheat if loads are connected for sustained periods.
This could all do with being made a little bit clearer for the average punter though, as not many will take any notice of "shavers only" - it's the right size and shape so it will work, right?!

 

[littlespark]

What defines “long term use” with charging a toothbrush? Mine can be plugged in for a number of hours.
No difference than a rechargeable shaver… not that I use one now.

So the “shavers only” label means only corded shavers, being plugged in and used for maybe 5 minutes?

If this is the case, the toothbrush and cordless shaver people should have designed the chargers with standard 3 pin plugs for use outside of a bathroom.

 

[catdog1121]

Aren't electric tooth brushes designed to be plugged into shaver sockets?.. I have been plugging in an electric tooth brush for the last 25yrs with no problems..

I also have a rechargeable shaver that I leave in for extended periods, never been a problem..

 

[Lucien Nunes]

Clearly manufacturers have different policies, which might not reflect practical differences between products. To get a level playing field, the question one needs to ask of the manufacturers is: "What is the continuous VA rating of the transfomer, and, if there is a higher intermittent rating, what is that rating and at what duty cycle?" Only then can one decide whether the products are technically different or just subject to different policies.

 

[Avo Mk8]

Issues such as standards compliance and product liability may be why Manufacturers are coy about the suitability of their sockets?
Aside from that, looking at Braun, Philips Sonicare and other similar toothbrush chargers, their power consumption is in the range 0.4W to 1.5W. Pragmatically, surely that is not going to overload a 20VA transformer, even if intermittently rated?

 

[NICKYNUNN]

I will try and find a solid answer but it's looking doubtful. No doubt some people have not had an issue charging their toothbrushes in shaver sockets, that doesn't mean they were designed for it and doesn't mean they won't go wrong ....and if they do go wrong the manufacturer can simply say "well it does say SHAVERS ONLY". To me it looks like this subject has been left purposefully vague. I have a client who brought this question up when I suggested a certain product, if he hadn't asked I would of just put two new shaver sockets in for him, unfortunately, I still can't give a definitive answer. I'll let you know what answers I get back from manufacturers etc
Thanks for everyone's help as always.

 

[NICKYNUNN]

It's an interesting question. Crabtree make two ranges, one saying Shavers Only, one not.
Both state they comply with BS EN 61558-2-5, so obviously both have an isolating transformer in them.

Regarding the first range, Crabtree have previously said:
"Hello. We would not advise the use of electronic toothbrushes in our shaver supply units for the sole reason of the British Standard that we have tested them to (BS EN 61558-2-5). The standard does not require the testing of other electronic devices so we cannot assure any compatibility with our product unless specifically rated for the input/output of 115/230V. Thank you for your interest in our Crabtree brand".

The range that doesn't say "shavers only" clearly states it has a transformer rated at 20VA on the datasheet and this seems to be the key difference.
There's also an MK unit that actually shows a toothbrush on the faceplate and this also states it has a 20VA rated transformer.
Spot the price difference!

https://www.NoLinkingToThis/p/mk-al...ts/222ff#product_additional_details_container

So it probably simply comes down to cheaper transformers with thinner windings in the other products, that would get rather hot / overheat if loads are connected for sustained periods.
This could all do with being made a little bit clearer for the average punter though, as not many will take any notice of "shavers only" - it's the right size and shape so it will work, right?!

thanks Tim, I replied to this using the phone but it hasn't gone through :/

 

[Avo Mk8]

I will try and find a solid answer but it's looking doubtful. No doubt some people have not had an issue charging their toothbrushes in shaver sockets, that doesn't mean they were designed for it and doesn't mean they won't go wrong ....and if they do go wrong the manufacturer can simply say "well it does say SHAVERS ONLY". To me it looks like this subject has been left purposefully vague. I have a client who brought this question up when I suggested a certain product, if he hadn't asked I would of just put two new shaver sockets in for him, unfortunately, I still can't give a definitive answer. I'll let you know what answers I get back from manufacturers etc
Thanks for everyone's help as always.

As an installer, if a client requests a socket for toothbrush charging, a sensible response could be to fit the "mk dual voltage shaver/toothbrush supply unit". Eg from Wolsey: MK Electrical shaver/toothbrush supply unit dual voltage 115/230v output (220/240v 50/60Hz input) White | Wolseley - https://www.wolseley.co.uk/product/mk-shaver-toothbrush-supply-unit-dual-voltage-115-230v-output-%28220-240v-50-60hz-input%29-white/ That's clearly made for the purpose.

Here's an article: Socket Outlets For Shavers: What Do You Need To Consider? - https://professional-electrician.com/technical/socket-outlets-shavers/
that hints at some of the requirements of the BS EN 61558-2-5 standard:
"The transformer of a shaver supply unit is an isolating transformer, intended to provide protection against electric shock by ‘electrical separation’. The transformer is of the short-circuit proof type (either inherently or noninherently).
A thermal cut-out is provided in a shaver supply unit to limit the temperature of the transformer under conditions of short-circuit or overload. The cut-out may be of either the self-resetting type or the manually resetting type.
The front of a shaver supply unit is marked with the rated voltage(s) and with the symbol shown left. A degree of protection of at least IPX1 is provided by a shaver supply unit."

I fear you may not find a solid answer across the board, but my own view, for what it's worth is that it's safe to plug a low wattage (eg 1 to 2W) toothbrush charger into a BS EN 61558-2-5 shaver supply unit!

 

[DPG]

I think the main issue is that these sockets have always been called shaver sockets, and have always had the same shaver symbol on them. Obviously over time electric toothbrushes have come out, but not everybody had added a toothbrush logo; possibly because it's not a requirement.

What about chargers for epilators, skin care device, etc? The manufacturers aren't going to add a picture of every possible chargeable device. Any low current charger should be fine if the socket is made to the normal standards.

 

[Mike Johnson]

The Contactum shaver socket I installed about thirty years ago has been used to charge my toothbrush since I bought one, if I remember when they first became available, must be twenty years hence, it is never unplugged from the charger unit, just took if off the wall and all looks fine inside and the insulation is also fine.

 

[NICKYNUNN]

I think the main issue is that these sockets have always been called shaver sockets, and have always had the same shaver symbol on them. Obviously over time electric toothbrushes have come out, but not everybody had added a toothbrush logo; possibly because it's not a requirement.

What about chargers for epilators, skin care device, etc? The manufacturers aren't going to add a picture of every possible chargeable device. Any low current charger should be fine if the socket is made to the normal standards.

true, but why stipulate shavers only?

 

[DPG]

true, but why stipulate shavers only?

Yes, fair point. I suspect there's no actual good reason for it to be honest.

 

[NICKYNUNN]

As an installer, if a client requests a socket for toothbrush charging, a sensible response could be to fit the "mk dual voltage shaver/toothbrush supply unit". Eg from Wolsey: MK Electrical shaver/toothbrush supply unit dual voltage 115/230v output (220/240v 50/60Hz input) White | Wolseley - https://www.wolseley.co.uk/product/mk-shaver-toothbrush-supply-unit-dual-voltage-115-230v-output-%28220-240v-50-60hz-input%29-white/ That's clearly made for the purpose.

Here's an article: Socket Outlets For Shavers: What Do You Need To Consider? - https://professional-electrician.com/technical/socket-outlets-shavers/
that hints at some of the requirements of the BS EN 61558-2-5 standard:
"The transformer of a shaver supply unit is an isolating transformer, intended to provide protection against electric shock by ‘electrical separation’. The transformer is of the short-circuit proof type (either inherently or noninherently).
A thermal cut-out is provided in a shaver supply unit to limit the temperature of the transformer under conditions of short-circuit or overload. The cut-out may be of either the self-resetting type or the manually resetting type.
The front of a shaver supply unit is marked with the rated voltage(s) and with the symbol shown left. A degree of protection of at least IPX1 is provided by a shaver supply unit."

I fear you may not find a solid answer across the board, but my own view, for what it's worth is that it's safe to plug a low wattage (eg 1 to 2W) toothbrush charger into a BS EN 61558-2-5 shaver supply unit!

thanks, appreciate you sharing your knowledge. I wished MK clearly stated in the technical info that the shaver is suitable for charging over long periods of time (at least the time it takes to charge your average toothbrush/shaver etc), whilst I do sincerely appreciate the opinions of trade experts on here, it would be nice to see some official confirmation from the manufacturer, this is what I'm trying to get at.