Should Electric Oven Have Switch? & Question re. Whether Need New Cert.

[Novice12]

Hello,

I have just had a new builder with his own Electrician come in to do the following:
Kitchen:
- Install an electric oven. There was a switch / cable in the kitchen already for it to be connected to done by the previous builder's Electrician.
- Install an electric extractor hood in kitchen.
- Wire up gas hob for its electrical ignition.
Bathroom:
- Install electric shower. There was already an electric cable for the shower left loose in the loft above bathroom and connected to the fuse board at the other end which was done by a previous builder's Electrician.

On inspecting the kitchen I have found that there is one new wall plug socket into which the plug for the ignnition for the gas hob goes and there is 1 new switch which is for the electric extractor hood. I can't locate a switch in the kitchen for the electric oven.

My questions are:
1. Should there be a switch in the kitchen for the electric oven or is it sufficient for this to be switched on or off at the fuse board as it has its own circuit there and if there should be a switch in the kitchen should this be visible/readily accessible because at the moment I can't locate one and I am thinking that maybe if there is one it is hidden somewhere, perhaps behind the oven.

2. What certificate/s if any should the Elecrician have provided for this work as he has added 1 new plug socket and one new switch for the extractor hood and also installed electric shower onto and already installed electric shower cable.

3. Should my builder be holding back the certificate/s untill he has been paid in full?

Thanks,

A

 

[Pete999]

Sounds like your builder is a bit of a Cowboy, don't pay him until you get a EIC and yes your cooker should have an Isolation switch, as a by was the electrician part of a Competent Persons Scheme, NICEIC, ELECSA or one of the miriad of these schemes?

 

[Octopus]

- Install electric shower. There was already an electric cable for the shower left loose in the loft above bathroom and connected to the fuse board at the other end which was done by a previous builder's Electrician.

Are you telling us the whole story here ... just a couple of weeks back you were asking if a door bell circuit could share with a lighting circuit so the "spare" way could be used for the shower......

On the subject of the cooker, its GOOD PRACTICE to have a DP isolator for ALL fixed appliances so when the RCD starts tripping (and yes it will) you can easily isolate all appliances

 

[telectrix]

an isolator for the oven is good practice, but not essential. as said. isolation can be achieved by switching off the breaker. you should have an electrical installation certificate. this could be a minor works id no new circuits have been added. certificate/s should be handed over when or before your final payment is made.

 

[Novice12]

Sounds like your builder is a bit of a Cowboy, don't pay him until you get a EIC and yes your cooker should have an Isolation switch, as a by was the electrician part of a Competent Persons Scheme, NICEIC, ELECSA or one of the miriad of these schemes?

I believe he was part of NICEIC. If that's the case would the EIC be an NICEIC one?

 

[Novice12]

Are you telling us the whole story here ... just a couple of weeks back you were asking if a door bell circuit could share with a lighting circuit so the "spare" way could be used for the shower......

On the subject of the cooker, its GOOD PRACTICE to have a DP isolator for ALL fixed appliances so when the RCD starts tripping (and yes it will) you can easily isolate all appliances

Telling you the full story. Had new builder with new Electrician as stated in my post. You say is good practice to have a DP isolator for all fixed appliaces. What is a DP isolator, is this the switch I can't find for the oven? Also is it just good practice or is it a building regs requirement? Also because the oven is on its own circuit from the fuse board wouldn't this mean the problem of not being able to isolate other appliances when RCD starts tripping not apply in this situation?

 

[Pete999]

Should be

 

[Des 56]

Your on Builder No 2 and he is holding back certification
There are half finished wiring jobs and uncertainty over what needs to be agreed or is compulsory to provide
There are loads with control that obviously have not been agreed between the parties

I think Murdoch has a very good point "Are you telling us the whole story here"

 

[Octopus]

Should be

I think he means it should be in the regs...

 

[Octopus]

Telling you the full story. Had new builder with new Electrician as stated in my post. You say is good practice to have a DP isolator for all fixed appliaces. What is a DP isolator, is this the switch I can't find for the oven? Also is it just good practice or is it a building regs requirement? Also because the oven is on its own circuit from the fuse board wouldn't this mean the problem of not being able to isolate other appliances when RCD starts tripping not apply in this situation?

Telling you the full story. Had new builder with new Electrician as stated in my post. You say is good practice to have a DP isolator for all fixed appliaces. What is a DP isolator, is this the switch I can't find for the oven? Also is it just good practice or is it a building regs requirement? Also because the oven is on its own circuit from the fuse board wouldn't this mean the problem of not being able to isolate other appliances when RCD starts tripping not apply in this situation?

I'm amazed that you managed to kick the first builder/sparky into touch and get new ones so quickly...... if they were any good they wouldn't be available...

 

[Novice12]

an isolator for the oven is good practice, but not essential. as said. isolation can be achieved by switching off the breaker. you should have an electrical installation certificate. this could be a minor works id no new circuits have been added. certificate/s should be handed over when or before your final payment is made.

Thanks,

Would the Electrician need to send a copy of the certificate to his governing body (which I think is NICEIC) so they can send out a Building Regulations Certificate of Compliance (I got one of these after previous electrician installed new fuse board and re-wired house) or is this not necessary for the work he has done as detailed in my original post?

Thanks.

 

[telectrix]

if it's notifiable work, e.g. new circuit/s, then it should be notified to LABC.

 

[Octopus]

The sparky should give you the Electrical Certificates directly ... Part P compliance Certificates come from their scheme.....

These are completely different certificates.

 

[Novice12]

I'm amazed that you managed to kick the first builder/sparky into touch and get new ones so quickly...... if they were any good they wouldn't be available...

First builder and his electrician had finished the work I had asked them to do. We had broken the job into a first stage and finishg stage and so first builder having done the first stage and me not having liked the 4 months it had taken him after he had told me 4 weeks (plus other problems) I didn't ask him back to do the next stage.

 

[Octopus]

So was it the 1st or 2nd spark who told you he couldn't put the door bell on the lighting circuit?

If one spark has first fixed and the second done the 2nd fix - neither can self certify under Part P

 

[Novice12]

So was it the 1st or 2nd spark who told you he couldn't put the door bell on the lighting circuit?

If one spark has first fixed and the second done the 2nd fix - neither can self certify under Part P

2nd one.

 

[Novice12]

Your on Builder No 2 and he is holding back certification
There are half finished wiring jobs and uncertainty over what needs to be agreed or is compulsory to provide
There are loads with control that obviously have not been agreed between the parties

I think Murdoch has a very good point "Are you telling us the whole story here"

Yes, telling you the full story. I don't understand why is coming across as that complicated: I had one builder / Electrician in to rewire house which included putting wire for shower in and wire for electric oven with swtich on it but he didn't put in shower itself or oven as this was a 2nd stage job that hadn't asked them to do yet. Didn't use them again due to problems including the 1st builder taking 4 months to complete the other works that he said would take 4 weeks. Got 2nd builder in to do 2nd stage which included fitting bathroom suite including electric shower and fitting kitchen including wirining in oven, gas hob's ignition and extractor hood. Now I can't find switch for oven and wonder if should be one by law and not got any certificates yet from 2nd builder who is saying will give them to me once paid in full.

 

[Novice12]

if it's notifiable work, e.g. new circuit/s, then it should be notified to LABC.

So is the work I have outlined notifiable (adding 1 new plug socket for gas hob's ignition, adding 1 new switch for kitchen extractor hood and fitting a shower to an already existing cable), I don't believe any new circuits put onto the fuse board to do any of this work?

 

[Toneyz]

I believe he was part of NICEIC. If that's the case would the EIC be an NICEIC one?

not always just because they are a part of one of the NICEIC screams you do not need to use there certificates (but they like you to) along as it is based upon BS7671 now this may have gone to the builder as they are employing the services of the electrician. The Building compliance certificate (part P certificate as people call it) should be sent to the dwelling.

 

[Novice12]

The sparky should give you the Electrical Certificates directly ... Part P compliance Certificates come from their scheme.....

These are completely different certificates.

So I can understand the certificates I should get:

From the original re-wire work I got directly from the 1st builder/Electrician a Domestic Electrical Installation Certificate on NICEIC headed paper and then later I got a certificate from NICEIC which says "Building Regulation Certificate of Compliance" and refers to regulations 4 & 7 of The Building Regulations 2010 for England and Wales.

Is the first certificate an example of the Electrical Certificates you say the Electrician should give me directly and the second a Part P compliance Certificate that you say should come from their scheme?