Testing...how far do you go?

[Tonkatoy27]

You are testing the RCD, so one test on each RCD at a 17th board, tested at the CU if you want, is fine.

 

[Tonkatoy27]

I find some people jump to the cowboy references far too quickly on here sometimes, just because someone does something different to the way they do it. My now fully qualified apprentice sometimes takles jobs completely differently from the way I would, it doesn't make him wrong, it just means his thought process is different. Spouting off to someone and calling them names without knowing them isn't very mature and doesn't contribute at all. (schoolyard bully springs to mind)
I see this forum as somewhere qualified sparkies can discuss and learn from each other. However, the DIYer trying to get us to tell him how to wire up his new bathroom lights so he can save a few quid should only be told one piece of advice. Get an electrician in.

 

[Dave 85]

I find some people jump to the cowboy references far too quickly on here sometimes, just because someone does something different to the way they do it. My now fully qualified apprentice sometimes takles jobs completely differently from the way I would, it doesn't make him wrong, it just means his thought process is different. Spouting off to someone and calling them names without knowing them isn't very mature and doesn't contribute at all. (schoolyard bully springs to mind)
I see this forum as somewhere qualified sparkies can discuss and learn from each other. However, the DIYer trying to get us to tell him how to wire up his new bathroom lights so he can save a few quid should only be told one piece of advice. Get an electrician in.

Oh Ive been called cowboy, DIY'er, Electrical Trainee, menace to society etc etc more times than I can remember on these forums. I must admit I do enjoy sitting back and watching people make idiots of themselves. Its quite easy to see how much weight someones opinion carries on these forums by viewing their profile and the people throwing these kind of accusations around usually carry very little.

 

[Chris_Harvey]

As said above RCD test is for each RCD so one test on each is the right way surely, well this is the way i was taught. I also work live on occasions as its not possible to work dead all the time and i would consider myself a new spark having been trained and qualified in the latter end of the 16th edition. Am i scared of it NO, do i respect it YES. I have had a good belt on more than one occasion and that alone makes you respect what your doing more.

The cowboy word is thrown around too often in my opinion before all the facts are gained. Just because someone has a different way of doing things doesn't make them a cowboy and just because they did a Electrical Trainee course also doesn't make them a cowboy but, not testing at all or drive by testing = cowboy, those who just throw it in switch it on and collect the money without a care in the world.
Dave 85 you may not have be recording the info right before but, you were testing it (maybe not to the liking of everyone) and would have investigated further if it had been wrong. Whats wrong with that! Certainly no cowboy in my eyes.

rant over
chris

 

[Guest55]

Out of interest do you guys RCD test every circuit on a dual RCD board? I used to but now just test one circuit on each side.

Do rcd tests at the board with all mcbs turned off to reduce " electronic noise " from appliances.
2 rcd CU = 2 separate tests at the device.

 

[Dave 85]

Do rcd tests at the board with all mcbs turned off to reduce " electronic noise " from appliances.
2 rcd CU = 2 separate tests at the device.

Aye bloody obvious really, I've been doing it that way a while now, Was taught at college to RCD test every circuit. Nonsense

 

[Guest111]

RULES are for the observance of fools and the guidance of wise men Douglas Bader.

 

[telectrix]

i tend to test RCDs at sockets. reason is that i generally use the auto test function and it's not easy to keep probes in contact with the RCD terminals whilst resetting the RCD after each trip. also, IMO, in the real world thae RCD is expected to trip if necessary with circuits and loads connected, so why test with circuits OFF. ?

 

[StuSpiers]

It's your name on the cert not anyone else's so you do what YOU think is necessary.

Shock horror I sometimes do no IR on a CU change instead I bow to the good old bang test.

However I never leave a job without being confident that it is safe.


There I was honest.

 

[tonycoysh]

i tend to test RCDs at sockets. reason is that i generally use the auto test function and it's not easy to keep probes in contact with the RCD terminals whilst resetting the RCD after each trip. also, IMO, in the real world thae RCD is expected to trip if necessary with circuits and loads connected, so why test with circuits OFF. ?

I like this method too. Much easier to plug in MFT and place on floor or kitchen worktop and leave on auto test and not be trying to hold probes and reset the RCD.

 

[Guest55]

.......... so why test with circuits OFF. ?

The rcd manufacturers themselves recommend the testing is done off load.
Some brands are suseptable to give inaccurate readings if loads are active downstream.
In many cases it doesnt make much difference but that is the guidance given anyway.

 

[dingledong]

wow a very good honest chat i'm impressed indeed . i've always thought this site should be called to good to be true electrics .

its a weight of my mind i thought i was the only one living in reality

 

[Guest55]

Shock horror I sometimes do no IR on a CU change instead I bow to the good old bang test.

Quick ! someone call the feds !
:-D

 

[Moses]

Do rcd tests at the board with all mcbs turned off to reduce " electronic noise " from appliances.
2 rcd CU = 2 separate tests at the device.

or


Switch Off all loads at their switches
Use Plug-Lead of the MFT on auto-test to test the RCD's, at the most convenient socket

 

[Dave 85]

wow a very good honest chat i'm impressed indeed . i've always thought this site should be called to good to be true electrics .

its a weight of my mind i thought i was the only one living in reality

Yes, I totally agree. It didn't start too well, I thought I was gonna get hung out to dry after the first 5 responses from incompetent illiterate fools, but the naysayers have gone suprisingly quiet since the proper sparkies who know what they are about have spoken up.

 

[Dave 85]

It's your name on the cert not anyone else's so you do what YOU think is necessary.

Shock horror I sometimes do no IR on a CU change instead I bow to the good old bang test.

However I never leave a job without being confident that it is safe.


There I was honest.

Well said!
I have to say, mind, that recently I have taken to IR testing each circuit as I go when doing a C/U change just to prevent myself tearing my hair out when I turn it on the RCD'd wont hold.

The guy I used to work for, when 17th ed boards first came out, on several occasions, replaced both rcd's with main switches after a CU change because he couldn't ever work out how to get them to hold in and fault finding was completely beyond him. Have you ever heard anything like it? Its insane.

For the record he did a full 2360 apprenticeship, AM2, 16th edition, NVQ the lot. Far more qualified and experienced than I ever was.

He went bankrupt three years ago in a year where he turned over about £150-200k with just me and an apprentice.

Proof that incompetence catches up with everyone in the end....

 

[Guest55]

Alot of good sparks dont get their heads round testing , which is why 2391 has only 30% pass rate.
Of course i did mine back in '97 when the exams were really hard

 

[Moses]

Alot of good sparks dont get their heads round testing , which is why 2391 has only 30% pass rate.
Of course i did mine back in '97 when the exams were really hard

Those were the days!
Real exams!

 

[parker56]

Yes, I totally agree. It didn't start too well, I thought I was gonna get hung out to dry after the first 5 responses from incompetent illiterate fools, but the naysayers have gone suprisingly quiet since the proper sparkies who know what they are about have spoken up.

you started this thread as a wind up,as for being called a incompetent illiterate fool,Ihave worked with some right nobs
who don't give a stuff about looking out for them selfs or anybody else,so in my case because i work on forecourts & fuel storage depots with petrol/diesel, i am a little sensitive to people not working safely.

 

[plugsandsparks]

Interesting thread: I am from the earlier version of sparky (industrial background)
Anything new and anything i have not installed gets full 500V treatment - so does anything like a simple radial where i am confident i know exactly what the cct is and there is no chance its spured off anywhere.
Everything else gets 250V - this has saved me numerous times when i have subsequently found additional equipment.
I spend at least half my time on visuals and making sure i have found everything i can. This is no mean feat in a factory environment with so much electrical equipment fed from control panels rather than from Dbs.
RCDS tested from nearest socket with MFT on auto.
Grouped IR numbers repeated across whatever group i have done.
I usually find i have to get my hand into the board so when i have finished i generally put the DB cover back on and do Zs tested to ensure i have not put a fault on and then test the device.
I am not generally testing to a fixed price but overall i am more likely to mess up on missing a broken socket / switch/isolater etc etc that fails basic insulation of live parts as is the environment i am working in so this takes my priority. To be honest if i cannot find a circuit it goes down as "not found", if i cannot get an IR reading cos i know there is sonmething plugged in out there, it goes down as Limitation with comment. If stuff is too high to reach - ditto.
Don't do much house stuff but suspect IRs on sockets and lights could be interesting.
Much of the work i do is live, whether i am in a DB adding ccts or testing. I work as if everyhting is live and rarely get a belt (mostly off neutrals).
If i am working on lighting i am more likely to work live as i hate being in the dark so will always try and keep the lights on - TBH its no big deal and i honestly cannot see what all the fuss is about, after all its only 240V !!