Thermo dynamics for hot water that runs off atmosphere

Discuss Thermo dynamics for hot water that runs off atmosphere in the Solar PV Forum | Solar Panels Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

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Danlow84

Anyone ever wanted to look into panels for hot water?well now theres a single panel that doesnt need to go on roof and it runs of atmosphere 24 hours a day 365 days a year in any condition down to -15 degrees.were offering people free surveys to leave people with all facts and figures.
 
Lol i know ive already had few ppl saying that no way do they run off atmosphere but if they look into it they will see my company does offer these atmosphere panels
 
Thermodynamic Systems are able to heat your hot water, home, business or swimming pool.

The panels gather and extract heat from the atmosphere in all weather conditions, day and night.

These thermodynamic panels will produce hot water and heat whenever you need it at all times of the day and and night, the whole year round.

Thermodynamic solar panels are highly efficient and lower your heating and water bills. Thermodynamic panels come with a a life time guarantee against oxidisation and corrosion.

They can be fitted to any roof area or vertical wall within 15m of the hot water tank. The solar collectors absorb heat from both sides of the panel making them extremely efficient. Just one panel can provide enough water for a family of 4.



What are the benefits of Thermodynamic Panels?

Heats water to 55°C all year round

Works in sun, wind, rain, snow, day & night

Outstanding thermal efficiency

Robust aluminium panels, weighing only 8kg!

Straightforward installation with minimal maintenance

Can be mounted from 15° to 90°, giving you ultimate flexibility in positioning

Saving you up to 80% off your water & heating bills

Can provide 100% of hot water requirements

Fast payback period

Can be used for domestic hot water, swimming pool, large volume water heating and central heating
 
Yes we have been installing for last couple of months and we always follow up installs with customer care calls and everyone so far havnt had any problems and yea it is very impressive
 
If it claims to heat all your hot water requirements all year round, shouldnt it heat the water to over 60 degrees to kill off legionella and not up to the 55 degrees that you claim.
 
Which data did you use to back up your claims before you starting installing?

Trying not to sound negative here - I'm intrigued by Thermodynamic systems but very skeptical.
 
To be fair we visited ireland were these atmospheric panels have been used for a while and we checked all through there data and feedback and we went from there
 
Would these be the same Thermodynamic modules that have had the MCS license pulled ?

The Thermodynamic panels that were filled with water instead of F gas to cheat the MCS system into granting a solar license for a heat pump product ?

The ones that claim to qualify for the RHI but cannot ?

The ones claiming a COP of 7 where testing has proven a COP of 0.93 !

The same ones that companies are installing for over £8000 when using the immersion heater would be more cost effective !

MCS installers you should read your newsletters this technology is snake oil !!
 
these panels were struck off the mcs list. they use a refrigerant to absorb heat from the atmosphere like an air-source but without any type of freeze protection. they obtained their solar keymark under false pretences by filling them with glycol.

mcs will only approve them if they are filled with glycol.
 
This is the official MCS viewpoint:

*********

Thermodynamics Products
MCS has recently reviewed a type of product described as thermodynamic solar panels. This follows the listing of a thermodynamic product on the Solar Keymark list. We have now clarified that the Solar Keymark certification has been based on collectors tested with only water as the heat transfer medium. Therefore any systems installed with a refrigerant operating on a vapour compression cycle are not covered by the Solar Keymark certification and subsequently the Microgeneration Certification Scheme (MCS).

Following this clarification we will allow installers to continue registering those collectors using water and / or water-glycol mix as the heat transfer medium ONLY, if they wish to do so. The collector must be installed in full compliance with the conditions under which the Solar Keymark certification was issued and MCS Standard MIS3001.

As of Monday 19th November 2012, the registration under MCS of thermodynamic installations using refrigerant is not permitted. MCS is working with various manufacturers to decide how to extend the scope of the scheme to allow certification of these systems.
This decision does not mean that the refrigerant based systems cannot be installed in the UK, simply that they cannot be registered on the MCS installation database. However, anyone installing these systems will be responsible for ensuring that they meet the relevant UK building and F-GAS regulations.
 
Over next few months they will be registered on the mcs database im pretty sure of this.but despite the fact they aint at minute does not mean that the product doesnt work or benefit homes
 
Dont see why all the negativity and childish comments on here?We have never tried to force anyone to get involved in solar or thermo if it isnt going to benefit them we just give people the facts with free survey just so people can have the facts and figures to read in there own time.
 
jason121 said:
Can Thermo dynamics provide enough energy for space heating
Click to expand...
that's a bit of a trick question.

They produce heat at something like 4-600W IIRC, so could feasibly be used for heating in passif house type situations with extremely low heat requirements. They're pretty similar to exhaust air heat pumps in that respect.

They would require an immersion back up as they cut out at something like -10 / -15, but so do many ASHPs.

There's probably only around 0.001% of the UK housing stock that'd have those low levels of heating demand / high insulation levels though, so they're not suitable for retrofitting, but could be a good option if the UK is serious about new builds moving to being extremely low energy using houses.

Of course it also depends on how many are fitted, and I've never really seen proper trade prices for the multiple panel heating units energie offer / have pictures being used, so it's hard to judge the financial viability of such systems vs ASHP / GSHP / EAHP options.

I'm firmly in the camp of more info needed, but I really like the potential of the product IF specified for suitable situations.
 
I've started to look into this technology. I would be interested in know how they would perform in hard weather up here in Scotland. Personally I'm sceptical of the claims that they perform in all weathers 24/7. How can that be when even the best heat pumps (which these are) require defrost cycles.
 
Oh and just thought I would mention there are a few companies selling units like this up here. Customer of mine had a quote for £22K.!! and was guaranteed the RHI. Some people have no shame.
 
No way would i pay 22k the single panel system starts at about 5k and your right they stop working if temp drops below -15 but apart from that they do work day and nite in any weather condition would be happy to give you more information if required
 
Danlow84 said:
No way would i pay 22k the single panel system starts at about 5k and your right they stop working if temp drops below -15 but apart from that they do work day and nite in any weather condition would be happy to give you more information if required
Click to expand...

Do they work at full output down to -15 and cut off, or start degrading from 0 or higher?
 
I think I am about to loose the will to live with regard to this technology.
PLEASE someone provide real life, substantiated performance data for this equipment. Otherwise this is nothing but mental masturbation. In may make you feel good but it doesn't produce anything. What is so difficult about this? I have been asking for over a year without success.
Come on, show us the colour of your money.
This must be the fourth thread on this topic, still with no conclusion.
 
If youve been trying for over a year could you not just talk to someone who has it fitted?if you tell me exactly what it is your looking for i will gladly try and help
 
Hmmm, £5000 to install a system that just heats your hot water, that is without the running costs.
Just how much do you think it costs to heat hot water in a domestic situation using standard methods?

By the way I have looked into these systems myself, but for heating not just hot water.
I am not saying they do not work, just as the rest of the industry is saying, there is still no proven real time data for them yet.
 
What was your question jason?and i think if you were to have constant hot water 24 hours a day your gas bills would be very very high and as you may be aware they can also be used to constantly heat things like swimming pools aswell
 
oh, can heat pumps not get RHI if they're just for water heating then?


or more accurately, is that the proposal in the consultation?

hmm, well that will be a serious problem then as a disincentive from using them for water heating and an incentive to companies to go around fitting them as space heating solutions in totally inappropriate situations. That certainly sounds like the sort of thing that DECC / Gemserve would manage to come up with.
 
I have installed a few of these systems and these are the facts:

Ambient air temp - 6 deg C
Water entering temp - 8 deg C
200l of water 8 deg to 55 deg = 2 hours
amp draw = 9amps

Now i'm no mathematician, but what does this calculate into?

Steve
 
steve k said:
I have installed a few of these systems and these are the facts:

Ambient air temp - 6 deg C
Water entering temp - 8 deg C
200l of water 8 deg to 55 deg = 2 hours
amp draw = 9amps

Now i'm no mathematician, but what does this calculate into?

Steve
Click to expand...

A miracle?

If this is true, it's very impressive technology.
 
Will this amazing new technology cut my gas bill in half, allowing a fantastically quick payback time on a 5K installation cost?

Or will I be left scratching my gonads when reality hits, the debt has to be repaid and the snakeoil salesman has hit the highway?
 
That works out at about 4.14 kWh...
That's the same as the immersion on for just under and hour and a half..
 
whinmoor said:
A miracle?

If this is true, it's very impressive technology.
Click to expand...

Hmmm, yes it is true...... Ps....it's not that impressive, just basic refrigeration.


Vegelen said:
Will this amazing new technology cut my gas bill in half, allowing a fantastically quick payback time on a 5K installation cost?
Or will I be left scratching my gonads when reality hits, the debt has to be repaid and the snakeoil salesman has hit the highway?
Click to expand...

This is where it all falls down.....the people selling it are charging too much....the ones we briefly installed were £7k.

Appx £950+vat for us, £1.5k+ vat for the kit and the rest for slimey HP salespeople, call centre battery chickens and entrepreneurs profit
 
230V x 9 Amps x 2 hours = 4.14kWh (230*9*2/1000 = 4.14)

3 kW Immersion for 1.5 hours = 3*1.5 = 4.5 kWh
 
Worcester said:
230V x 9 Amps x 2 hours = 4.14kWh (230*9*2/1000 = 4.14)

3 kW Immersion for 1.5 hours = 3*1.5 = 4.5 kWh
Click to expand...

is 230v x 9a not 2.07kW/h ??.. what I mean to ask is what is the energy required to raise the temp of water from 8 to 55 in 2 hours?
 
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