What percentage of Sparks voted Brexit?

[Darkwood]

So with the current capitalistic system we have, where the poor get poorer and the rich get richer.
If we changed to a socialistic system, the poor would get poorer and the rich richer.
The Socialist countries such as Belgium, Canada, China, Denmark, Finland, Holland, Ireland, New Zealand, Norway and Sweden don’t work?

Read my post again, I made it clear that this is not to be mistaken with countries that adapt some socialist models under a capital umbrella, all the countries you listed are not true socialist countries, the only criteria to been called a socialist country is self identification and is no reflection on the actual workings of the economy this is why so many let's say Corbynites are getting confused, they see a capitalist country identifying as a socialist because or 1 or 2 policies and they then think capitalism is the enemy and socialism works when in fact they are identifying capitalist countries in disguise.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

What you actually mean is:
You don’t believe they are true socialist countries.
You probably think the old USSR was a socialist country.

 

[JK-Electrical]

Socialist Venezuela Falling Apart As President Maduro Shockingly Blames Party:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2018/08/01/socialist-venezuela-falling-apart-president-maduro-shockingly-blames-party

 

[Darkwood]

@Spin - Socialism as most people would like to understand it does not really exist in a modern western world due to the international capitalistic frame we are all part of therefore any arguments about it working in this country or that are flawed from the off.

@JK - Venezuela is arguably an example of socialism failure although there is a failure of the government that has worsened the crisis, many people counter any criticism of the Socialist setup been the cause by throwing the oil price crash into the loop which on reflection seems a very reasonable argument to make as 95% of exports was oil and that was 25% of the economy, but here is the thing, when prices rose and recovered somewhat back up in 2017 it should have seen the country gaining traction and getting back out of the mess it was in but it didn't and this in part is directly to do with the socialist model, in fact the economy carried on in decline, there are many interesting negatives about taking over all your industries and one is investment and external support, if you think about it, which company is going to go in looking for new oil deposits knowing that when they find any the government will just take over, this analogy is true with many aspects of socialism, it pushes away the very people that can invest in your economy, boost it and push up living standards, when you are sheltered under a capitalist umbrella then at least you are protected from the rain to some degree.

 

[JK-Electrical]

it's a fact that both tories and labour proponents of the remain campaign had vested interests in staying in. they were all feeding from the EU trough. blair for one.

Blair's chief spin-doctor and former EU trade commissioner, Peter 'Prince Of Darkness' Mandelson, certainly has his snout deep in the EU trough, doesn't he?

According to Mandelson, he's "patriotic" and we Brexiteers are just a nasty bunch of xenophobic nationalists who hate everyone and everything that isn't indigenous to the UK.

Duplicitous Mandelson then declares that he "entirely" respects "the contrary view of many others." I think this is what George Orwell was referring to when he coined the term doublethink.

 

[JK-Electrical]

@Spin - Socialism as most people would like to understand it does not really exist in a modern western world due to the international capitalistic frame we are all part of therefore any arguments about it working in this country or that are flawed from the off.

@JK - Venezuela is arguably an example of socialism failure although there is a failure of the government that has worsened the crisis, many people counter any criticism of the Socialist setup been the cause by throwing the oil price crash into the loop which on reflection seems a very reasonable argument to make as 95% of exports was oil and that was 25% of the economy, but here is the thing, when prices rose and recovered somewhat back up in 2017 it should have seen the country gaining traction and getting back out of the mess it was in but it didn't and this in part is directly to do with the socialist model, in fact the economy carried on in decline, there are many interesting negatives about taking over all your industries and one is investment and external support, if you think about it, which company is going to go in looking for new oil deposits knowing that when they find any the government will just take over, this analogy is true with many aspects of socialism, it pushes away the very people that can invest in your economy, boost it and push up living standards, when you are sheltered under a capitalist umbrella then at least you are protected from the rain to some degree.

In sum, socialism spends what capitalism earns.

 

[Darkwood]

I understand the figure now stands at 6500 refused entry.
Of course without access to ECRIS we would not have known to refuse those 6500 entry
.

You make a large assumption that we would lose access but the reality suggests otherwise, given the UK has the best intelligence and security database like already mentioned by a large margin and gives more than we ever receive and also that Interpol is external international body with which we are all members then why would they risk there own security by stopping access to the ECRIS database, they are relying heavily on the UK to build there limited database up.
I will add that on leaving we get to control the borders, you will have to apply to come and stay in the UK where relevant checks are automatically done on your criminal background and not as it stands at the moment where you have a valid passport so come on in and stay, this fact is strengthened by the agreed position of people already in the UK who may want to apply to stay post Brexit, one of the conditions is a criminal background check.

 

[JK-Electrical]

You make a large assumption that we would lose access but the reality suggests otherwise, given the UK has the best intelligence and security database like already mentioned by a large margin and gives more than we ever receive and also that Interpol is external international body with which we are all members then why would they risk there own security by stopping access to the ECRIS database, they are relying heavily on the UK to build there limited database up.
I will add that on leaving we get to control the borders, you will have to apply to come and stay in the UK where relevant checks are automatically done on your criminal background and not as it stands where you have a valid passport so come on in and stay, this fact is strengthened by the agreed position of people already in the UK who may want to apply to stay, one of the conditions is a criminal background check.

Watch: Govanhill raids target criminal gang suspected of benefit scam worth £4.6m - http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/16391082.watch-govanhill-raids-target-criminal-gang-suspected-of-benefit-scam-worth-46m

The criminal gang involved in the benefit fraud are of different nationalities. Prior to the raids, leaflets were prepared in a variety of languages to inform people in the area of the action carried out by Police Scotland.

Govanhill is probably the most diverse community in Scotland. There are over 50 languages currently spoken. What we will find is a range of nationalities involved in our executive action.

 

[Hoon]

@darkwood

I’m not a socialist. I believe In capitalism. It’s not a perfect system but its better than anything else we have.
But if you believe we live in a true capitalist society then you are wrong

There’s nothing “free” about our markets.
They are heavy manipulated, and controlled.
We oppress halve the world just too keep us in a materialistic fairy tale, where we can believe everything is ok, as long as we have the latest smart phone.

And if you want statistics on how our system as it stands is currently failing then just take a look at
1)the Gina coefficient
2)child mortality rates
3) hospital waiting times
4) the cost of care
5)the cost of housing
6) child obesity rates
7) real living wages
8) the use of foods banks
9) etc

We can go on and on. The simple fact is for the first time we now have a generation that will be worse of than their parents.


If you truly believe we are better of , carrying on with the status quo than yes, you are a “moron”

If you believe that stopping immagation will improve our lot, than yes you are a “moron”.


If you believe big corporations pay their fair taxes you are not only a Moran but you are a traitor to future generations.

Simple fact is, we was in a sinking ship inside the Eu, now we are in stormy waters with only Donald’s trump love rod as a buoyancy aid.

 

[andyb]

@darkwood

I’m not a socialist. I believe In capitalism. It’s not a perfect system but its better than anything else we have.
But if you believe we live in a true capitalist society then you are wrong

You can be both, I am. The opposite to capitalism is communism.

Capitalism is good, any self employed electrician is one, but you need the state to reel in the excessive practicies and greed of unbridled capitalism.

We're all socialist when we choose to be, if you need hospital treatment, to educate our kids, even the rabid capitalists of the city suddenly discovered socialism when they needed us after the financial crises in 2008.

 

[andyb]

In sum, socialism spends what capitalism earns.

So let me guess JK, you were born in a private hospital, educated privatley, live on a private estate paying for the up keep. I could go on but I'm sure you get my point.

The opposite to socialism is not capitalism, it's individualism.
And you're welcome to that.

 

[Des 56]

Who said the future of the younger generation was not hijacked by us oldies who paid no regard to their future ?

Over 45,voted out,you should be ashamed of yourselves

 

[plugsandsparks]

Ha, i love this stuff. So the population with the most experience in the world vote out and the ones who have only just spit the dummy out vote remain and thats really relevant to justify a second referendum.... lol

 

[stuarth]

This is the problem atm with any discussion, if you don't agree with someone then you insult them, this is the second time

Over 45,voted out,you should be ashamed of yourselves

you have said that which is a shame because you started with something that looks like the start of a factual intelligent argument, I learnt my lesson not to allow silly comments into a discussion.
Please explain why everyone over 45 who voted out should be ashamed? and why everyone over 45 who voted in should not be ashamed?
I reached my decision about leaving many years ago based on what I learnt from reading papers & listening to the radio as well as talking with others who disagreed and real life experiences observing the changes in our country and politicians. In the past 10-20 years the EU has become less democratic and more about grabbing power from sovereign states and bringing about a political ideology than looking after the best interests of the European population. Heres a quick fact for you " Michel Barnier says the EU needs a 'common foreign policy and common defence' - despite Nick Clegg warning that the idea of an EU army was a 'dangerous fantasy' " both men can be viewed making their comments here and here, I could start digging around and researching more actual facts to support my opinion that we as a nation would better out of the EU super state but I have many better things to do.

 

[andyb]

This is the problem atm with any discussion, if you don't agree with someone then you insult them,

Hardly an insult Stuarth, bit silly but not insulting.

If you want to find insults in this thread you don't have to look very far.

I was correct that it was obviously to complicated for some to understand

If thats too complicated I am sure there are some knowledgable people here who could explain it to you in small words so you and your fellow remoaners can understand

typical of a small but vocal minority of self satisfied bigots who think that their view is the only legitimate view allowed.

 

[MDJ]

Who said the future of the younger generation was not hijacked by us oldies who paid no regard to their future ?

Over 45,voted out,you should be ashamed of yourselves

Hi Des,

A good graph, I think this shows how we as a nation are changing actually. People these days are just so much different than those of us over 45, the people over 45 were brought up in a different world, a world without credit, a world where most of us had a black and white telly or no telly at all, no computers, no 24 hour live news, no fake news 24-7, playing outside not inside, the youngsters today have to build their futures, it isn't for us over 50 we have had our chance and made the world what it is now, wars in the middle east, poverty, gangs and terrorism pretty much the norm now, we created a lot of it, the north south divide, Scotland getting more per head than the rest of the UK, we did it, the youngsters can change it, I voted to remain, but am now an outy, purely due to the French treating us like rubbish when we lost a million men rescuing them twice from the Germans their new best mates.

So come on youngsters show us you can make a better tommorrow.

 

[telectrix]

the under 25's are too young to remember what damage the EU has done to this country since the 70's. since the 50's we were trading with the rest of the world and our economy was going from strength to strength.soon as we joined the common market we have been subsidising most of europe's crap economies, remember the butter mountains and wine lakes that existed to maintain high prices for ineffficient lazy surrender monkey farmers with 3 sheep and 2 cows?

 

[andyb]

the under 25's are too young to remember what damage the EU has done to this country since the 70's. since the 50's we were trading with the rest of the world and our economy was going from strength to strength.soon as we joined the common market we have been subsidising most of europe's crap economies, remember the butter mountains and wine lakes that existed to maintain high prices for ineffficient lazy surrender monkey farmers with 3 sheep and 2 cows?

Well tel, since the 70's this country has prospered and got richer and richer. We're the 5th richest country in the world.
This was achieved while in the EU.
And just to help you out a little, we actually do trade with the rest of the world, where did you get the idea that we don't?

 

[FatAlan]

‘Get back control of our borders’ We can already do that but choose not do because of cost. Do you honestly think that when we leave the government are going to magic up the money to Police UK borders? We don’t even have the resources to detect who’s nicking your tools. Do you honestly think Boris and his Eton cronies give a damn about the honest working person. They are in it for themselves and just playing to the nationalist agenda. FWIW I am a Euro sceptic and voted out but I’m very worried about the way things are playing out at the moment.

 

[telectrix]

our mining industry really prospered when the Germans started selling us coal cheaper than we could produce it,

 

[FatAlan]

our mining industry really prospered when the Germans started selling us coal cheaper than we could produce it,

and Maggie T decided she wanted to break the Unions

 

[telectrix]

and Maggie T Scargill decided he wanted to break the Unions bring down the government

corrected that for you.

 

[FatAlan]

corrected that for you.

Isn’t that the same thing? Scargill of the Unions wanted to bring down the government and Maggie T wouldn’t stand for it. Wish they’d do the same with the rail unions. Bit like Brexit. A few years of pain but a cheaper non profit public transport system to boost the economy.

 

[MDJ]

Isn’t that the same thing? Scargill of the Unions wanted to bring down the government and Maggie T wouldn’t stand for it. Wish they’d do the same with the rail unions. Bit like Brexit. A few years of pain but a cheaper non profit public transport system to boost the economy.

Tosh

 

[telectrix]

Isn’t that the same thing? Scargill of the Unions wanted to bring down the government and Maggie T wouldn’t stand for it. Wish they’d do the same with the rail unions. Bit like Brexit. A few years of pain but a cheaper non profit public transport system to boost the economy.

bring back the steam engine trains. re-open all the coal mines to feed their boilers, british engineering at it's best.

 

[MDJ]

saw the UK in half and push anyone north of Brum into the north pole, let them racially abuse the polar bears for being white and the walrusses for being Black.

 

[Des 56]

I am certainly not getting involved in the Maggie and Arthur item of this debate


QUOTE="stuarth, post: 1438499, member: 107800"]This is the problem atm with any discussion, if you don't agree with someone then you insult them, this is the second time
you have said that which is a shame because you started with something that looks like the start of a factual intelligent argument, I learnt my lesson not to allow silly comments into a discussion.
Looks to me as though you failed miserably with censoring of your own insults

The graph gives indication of why it was morally wrong for oldies to decide whats good for the younger ones

The over 45s did not take account of the impact of their wishes on the overwhelming majority of those that will be affected by the referendum,it is unforgivable in my estimation.

Please explain why everyone over 45 who voted out should be ashamed? and why everyone over 45 who voted in should not be ashamed?
Its why I reiterate that the over 45s should be ashamed of what they did,we should never have had the opportunity to do so
The vote will have had little relevance to anyone over 45
whether we are out or in

I reached my decision about leaving many years ago based on what I learnt from reading papers & listening to the radio as well as talking with others who disagreed and real life experiences observing the changes in our country and politicians. In the past 10-20 years the EU has become less democratic and more about grabbing power from sovereign states and bringing about a political ideology than looking after the best interests of the European population.
Little if anything will change much in the first 10 to 20 years of leaving thus the consequences do not have to be shouldered by the 45+ age group

Heres a quick fact for you " Michel Barnier says the EU needs a 'common foreign policy and common defence' - despite Nick Clegg warning that the idea of an EU army was a 'dangerous fantasy' " both men can be viewed making their comments here and here,
The vote was mainly on the state of the UK in the EU in its current form and specifically about control of immigration
The rights and wrongs of what may or may not mould the future EU was almost irrelevant to the discussion about the vote to leave I could start digging around and researching more actual facts to support my opinion that we as a nation would better out of the EU super state but I have many better things to do.

It was a poor decision made by a section of the population that to all intents and purposes,they condemned their children and the future of thos echildren to at best a very precarious future and at worst to greater poverty

It also be be ironic if the vote to exit results in the pensions of those who's wish was granted,that they become un-affordable to the now poverty stricken taxpayers
of Brexit + 20

 

[stuarth]

@des56 umm everything you have said in your post above as far as I can see is purely your opinion, which your entitled to but dose little to make a argument for remaining.

Heres a quick fact for you " Michel Barnier says the EU needs a 'common foreign policy and common defence' - despite Nick Clegg warning that the idea of an EU army was a 'dangerous fantasy' " both men can be viewed making their comments here and here,
The vote was mainly on the state of the UK in the EU in its current form and specifically about control of immigration
The rights and wrongs of what may or may not mould the future EU was almost irrelevant to the discussion about the vote to leave I could start digging around and researching more actual facts to support my opinion that we as a nation would better out of the EU super state but I have many better things to do.

I explain why this is a factual thing and why it demonstrates the problems many people have with the EU. Its a fact that the EU representative says they want a EU military (see video link) Mr Cleg stated that it was a totally "fantasy" that there were plans for a EU military, again check out the video link, the point being that many people all over the EU do not want closer political union they are quite happy to be trading partners and have many other agreements that benefit each other.

you have said that which is a shame because you started with something that looks like the start of a factual intelligent argument, I learnt my lesson not to allow silly comments into a discussion.
Looks to me as though you failed miserably with censoring of your own insults

Sorry you lost me here, I acknowledge that "maybe" my words had previously not been helpful to a sensible debate.

Please give me good arguments of why we should have stayed in the EU, give me facts of why it would have been better. Don't give me your opinion because your entitled to that and I can not argue against it, don't blame generations of the population for having an opinion and being arsed to go and vote on it.

Saw this on twitter this morning and it summed up the way things are atm enjoy.

 

[andyb]

Please give me good arguments of why we should have stayed in the EU, give me facts of why it would have been better. Don't give me your opinion because your entitled to that and I can not argue against it, don't blame generations of the population for having an opinion and being arsed to go and vote on it.

Saw this on twitter this morning and it summed up the way things are atm enjoy.

I'll give you a fact, not my opinion.
Things would of stayed as they were.
There you go.

Now can you give me any facts as to how we will be better off when we leave please?

Oh and by the way, I found your cartoon quite offensive.

 

[markythesparky]

You can set a pole up within a thread so members can tick the appropriate box, think that may have suited your inquiry better.

I didn’t know I could do that but to be honest, it wouldn’t have been as much fun would it.

 

[markythesparky]

By the way, there are members saying that we should have been given that facts before we voted.

THERE ARE NO FACTS! THERE ARE NO MORE FACTS NOW THAT THERE WERE BEFORE! THERE ARE NO MORE FACTS ABOUT LEAVE THAN THERE ARE ABOUT REMAIN.

In voting out, we are voting in to an educated unknown. But equally, if we had voted remain, (which we didn’t) we would have voted for Just as much of an unknown. We certainly would not have voted for the status quo as the EU is a ‘shifting sands’ bureaucracy.

The very reason Cameron was
forced into the referendum was because the UK people, as a whole, were fed up with the ever changing EU push toward more integration, more EU!

Discuss.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Whilst there are no more facts now than there were at the time of the vote, some facts have now come to light which were not really made public at the time of the vote.
For instance the Good Friday agreement not to have a border between North and Southern Ireland.
The way it’s shaping up, there’ll be a referendum soon in NI to decide if they want to remain part of the UK or join Southern Ireland.

 

[MDJ]

One thing about Brexit which no one can argue is the fact it has heavily divided the country, one of the worse things to happen to this country, IMO it is just a matter of time before the union breaks up over it, we are all at each others throats on here, it is the single most important thing to happen to the UK since the revolution IMO, it will change us forever regardless of how we all voted.

 

[Darkwood]

What brexit has done is give us a taste of living in the USA, politics is a family ritual over there and divides families, splits communities and causes lots of secondary issues, it has been happening for decades, here in the UK it has taken a referendum to achieve anything like we see in the US but I believe once we are out, the dust has settled and politics returns back to normal then we will all settle back to ignoring the politics of a person and treating them as equals regardless.
The speed at which this occurs will all be based on how we fair post Brexit, there is going to be a mad rush of media trying to show every job lost and every tiny negative effect out there to maintain their position because they have spent the last few yrs playing fearmongering, it will be very interesting when the UK (as I suspect) makes a success of not been tied to the EU under the rule of Brussels to how all these defiant remainer media, and organisations react when most of the scare stories they have been playing the population with do not come to fruition... like 90% of them haven't yet when claimed the vote alone would cause this and that.

 

[Adam W]

I'll give you a fact, not my opinion.
Things would of stayed as they were.
There you go.

Now can you give me any facts as to how we will be better off when we leave please?

Oh and by the way, I found your cartoon quite offensive.

That is opinion though - the fact is that the EU has changed, from a trade bloc to a meddling unelected federal body which has changed the face of Britain - the EU has brought about a situation where you mainly hear foreign voices in the street, where employers say they can no longer run their businesses without migrant workers, competition for property has pushed prices up beyond the means of many people who were born here, meaning people are faced with the prospect of living in digs for the rest of their lives if they haven't spent their working life saving up for their house back home.

Nobody knows for certain if we'll be better off when we leave, but the general consensus is that things can't keep going the way they are.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

That is opinion though - the fact is that the EU has changed, from a trade bloc to a meddling unelected federal body which has changed the face of Britain - the EU has brought about a situation where you mainly hear foreign voices in the street, where employers say they can no longer run their businesses without migrant workers, competition for property has pushed prices up beyond the means of many people who were born here, meaning people are faced with the prospect of living in digs for the rest of their lives if they haven't spent their working life saving up for their house back home.

Nobody knows for certain if we'll be better off when we leave, but the general consensus is that things can't keep going the way they are.

Most of that has sod all to do with the EU.

 

[Adam W]

Most of that has sod all to do with the EU.

Would you care to expand on that?

 

[telectrix]

Most of that has sod all to do with the EU.

why not.even non-eU migrants come here through europe, let'em in then move them on and dump them in UK has been EU policy for years.

 

[plugsandsparks]

Spoke to a client today who runs a business in UK, he cannot wait to leave, he has seen for his own eyes how EU multinationals have lobbied EU, skewed the market place and hurt many businesses in the process. We need a total clean break so our businesses can get on with global business on a level playing field. BTW he laughed at all the fuss about borders and customs, he imports from all over the world and states that the EU is actually more frustrating to deal with than US, china and asia, it isn't anything like what is being portrayed in the media. Over the cliff we go..... lol

 

[Nigel]

The EU's master plan is to have each Member State so reliant in it that they could never leave.

Portugal is a good example. One if the first things the EU done when Portugal joined was to give their farmers and manufacturing EU grants to close down. Portugal is now almost completely reliant on imports from............. yes, Germany.

We have to a certain extent almost fallen down the same hole. However we may just get out in time. The fact that we are talking about imploding as a direct result of leaving the EU scares me more than anything. The moment a country cannot survive without the input of foreign states then that country fails to be.

We will leave the EU as it is now impossible to be stopped. Anyone saying anything different does not understand how Parliament works.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Would you care to expand on that?

In the 80s Maggie Thatcher and the Tories gave Council Tenants the right to buy, whilst preventing Councils from using the proceeds from the sales to build more properties.
The resulting housing shortage and increased demand for housing has led to the escalation in house prices.

Maggie Thatcher and the Tories also decided to sell off all our nationalised industries for a fraction of their worth, resulting in our losing the millions of pounds of profit from those industries, the foreign ownership of those industries, a higher burden on our taxes and a reduction in public services.

Maggie Thatcher and the Tories also introduced competitive tendering, which resulted in an increase in foreign ownership, a decrease in wages, a decrease in the quality of work, an increase in costs, a higher burden on our taxes and a further reduction in public services.

Maggie Thatcher personally signed the freedom of movement agreement, which resulted in an increase in migrant workers from the EU, a further lowering of wages, an increase in the demand for housing and an increase on the demand for public services.

All this happened in the 80s, when the EU was still the EEC, just a trade block.

 

[Adam W]

In the 80s Maggie Thatcher and the Tories gave Council Tenants the right to buy, whilst preventing Councils from using the proceeds from the sales to build more properties.
The resulting housing shortage and increased demand for housing has led to the escalation in house prices.

Maggie Thatcher and the Tories also decided to sell off all our nationalised industries for a fraction of their worth, resulting in our losing the millions of pounds of profit from those industries, the foreign ownership of those industries, a higher burden on our taxes and a reduction in public services.

Maggie Thatcher and the Tories also introduced competitive tendering, which resulted in an increase in foreign ownership, a decrease in wages, a decrease in the quality of work, an increase in costs, a higher burden on our taxes and a further reduction in public services.

Maggie Thatcher personally signed the freedom of movement agreement, which resulted in an increase in migrant workers from the EU, a further lowering of wages, an increase in the demand for housing and an increase on the demand for public services.

All this happened in the 80s, when the EU was still the EEC, just a trade block.

Most of that has sod all to do with anything - that was 30 years ago and Maggie Thatcher died 5 years ago; you can't keep blaming her for everything.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Most of that has sod all to do with anything - that was 30 years ago and Maggie Thatcher died 5 years ago; you can't keep blaming her for everything.

That was just the start.
Both the Tories and the War criminal have continued the destruction.

 

[Adam W]

That was just the start.
Both the Tories and the War criminal have continued the destruction.

 

[telectrix]

In the 80s Maggie Thatcher and the Tories gave Council Tenants the right to buy, whilst preventing Councils from using the proceeds from the sales to build more properties.
The resulting housing shortage and increased demand for housing has led to the escalation in house prices.
i have to disagree with that. once tenants had purchased their council houses, they were no longer prospective tenants, sohow could that lead to a housing shortage? 1 less councilhouse available, but 1 less family wanting council rented accomodation.

Maggie Thatcher and the Tories also decided to sell off all our nationalised industries for a fraction of their worth, resulting in our losing the millions of pounds of profit from those industries, the foreign ownership of those industries, a higher burden on our taxes and a reduction in public services.
you mean the huge losses incurred by these overstaffed inefficient industries

Maggie Thatcher and the Tories also introduced competitive tendering, which resulted in an increase in foreign ownership, a decrease in wages, a decrease in the quality of work, an increase in costs, a higher burden on our taxes and a further reduction in public services.
i can agree partially with this statement.
Maggie Thatcher personally signed the freedom of movement agreement, which resulted in an increase in migrant workers from the EU, a further lowering of wages, an increase in the demand for housing and an increase on the demand for public services.

All this happened in the 80s, when the EU was still the EEC, just a trade block.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Those houses the Tennants purchased were no longer available for letting.
This created a shortage in public housing.
Prospective tennants then turned to the private sector.
This increased the demand on private housing.
As ther demand for private rented accommodation increased, landlords and prospective landlords purchased more property.
This further increased the demand on private housing.

Surprisingly only 20% of MPs are landlords.
Not surprisingly 70% of those are Tory.

 

[plugsandsparks]

I thought demand for housing was caused by many more single parent families and more people on the island wanting a house, whether the state or private builds them is neither here nor there.
Anyway, i think you will find that the free movement problem started when more countries were added to the EU during 2003 onwards. The actual agreements to add these countries and of course the impact of their movement was signed by TB, i remember the debates at the time and the government grossly (and negligently) under-estimated the number that would migrate (by millions) and hence we have a housing crisis. Maggie will be turning in her grave at the thoughts of what TB got up to opening up the UK to all and sundry, OH and conveniently forgetting to bolster up all our public services to cope.
What a muppet

 

[Deleted member 26818]

In 1965, my mum purchased a new build 2 bedroom flat for £3,000. She obtained a fixed rate mortgage from the newly formed GLC.
In 1969, my parents sold the flat for £5,000 and purchased a 3/4 bedroom house for £9,000. The two rear bedrooms had been converted into a kitchenette and bed sitting room.
My Paternal grandparents at the time were living in a Council 3 bed maisonette.
Following the death of my grandmother and the emigration to Canada of my Grandfather in 1975/6, the Council wrote to my Father and offered him the tenancy of my grandparents’ maisonette.
Although when my Grandparents first took up residency of the Maisonette, they had my Aunt living with them, for the majority of their tenancy they did not require 3 or even 2 bedrooms.
Today the Council would move them out to a 1 bed property in no time at all.

Surviving children of deceased tennants have always been able to inherit tenancies.
However, I have never heard of an instance where a tenancy was offered to someone living somewhere other than at the address of the tenancy.
Today even someone living at the address would have to fight to inherit the tenancy.

I can only assume, that at that time, during the 60s and 70s, there was no housing shortage in the area.

I personally know that housing policy in the area has changed since the beginning of the 80s.
Prospective tenants were allowed to refuse as many offers of tenancy as they wanted and still maintain their place on the waiting list. Over time this has been reduced to two offers, to one offer to now, no right of refusal.
In fact local Councils are now offering prospective tenants tenancies in other cities with no right of refusal.
Someone who has lived in Leyton all their lives and now needs Council accommodation, will not be offered somewhere local, perhaps in a neighbouring area, such as Leytonstone, Walthamstow, etc. instead they will be offered somewhere in Oldham or Manchester, even Barrow in Furness.

Some people will say, we have had an increase in our population.
In actual fact, the indigenous population is decreasing.
The population of the UK decreased from the 60s to the mid 70s, when it started to slightly increase again.
From 1985 (just after Thatcher signed the freedom of movement agreement) the population has been steadily increasing, mainly due to immigration.

To cap it all, Thatcher introduced a policy which reduced public housing, at the same time signed an agreement which increased immigration and over 70% of MPs that are landlords are Tory.
We no longer have a housing shortage, it’s now a housing crisis.

 

[Adam W]

In 1965, my mum purchased a new build 2 bedroom flat for £3,000. She obtained a fixed rate mortgage from the newly formed GLC.
In 1969, my parents sold the flat for £5,000 and purchased a 3/4 bedroom house for £9,000. The two rear bedrooms had been converted into a kitchenette and bed sitting room.
My Paternal grandparents at the time were living in a Council 3 bed maisonette.
Following the death of my grandmother and the emigration to Canada of my Grandfather in 1975/6, the Council wrote to my Father and offered him the tenancy of my grandparents’ maisonette.
Although when my Grandparents first took up residency of the Maisonette, they had my Aunt living with them, for the majority of their tenancy they did not require 3 or even 2 bedrooms.
Today the Council would move them out to a 1 bed property in no time at all.

Surviving children of deceased tennants have always been able to inherit tenancies.
However, I have never heard of an instance where a tenancy was offered to someone living somewhere other than at the address of the tenancy.
Today even someone living at the address would have to fight to inherit the tenancy.

I can only assume, that at that time, during the 60s and 70s, there was no housing shortage in the area.

I personally know that housing policy in the area has changed since the beginning of the 80s.
Prospective tenants were allowed to refuse as many offers of tenancy as they wanted and still maintain their place on the waiting list. Over time this has been reduced to two offers, to one offer to now, no right of refusal.
In fact local Councils are now offering prospective tenants tenancies in other cities with no right of refusal.
Someone who has lived in Leyton all their lives and now needs Council accommodation, will not be offered somewhere local, perhaps in a neighbouring area, such as Leytonstone, Walthamstow, etc. instead they will be offered somewhere in Oldham or Manchester, even Barrow in Furness.

Some people will say, we have had an increase in our population.
In actual fact, the indigenous population is decreasing.
The population of the UK decreased from the 60s to the mid 70s, when it started to slightly increase again.
From 1985 (just after Thatcher signed the freedom of movement agreement) the population has been steadily increasing, mainly due to immigration.

To cap it all, Thatcher introduced a policy which reduced public housing, at the same time signed an agreement which increased immigration and over 70% of MPs that are landlords are Tory.
We no longer have a housing shortage, it’s now a housing crisis.

So what do you think should be done about this crisis of yours?
Have a pop at the Tories? Dance on Margaret Thatcher's grave? Build more council estates in London?

Back on topic, could it help if fewer people from all over the world came to live in London thinking the streets are paved with gold? In other words an end to the free movement of people.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

So what do you think should be done about this crisis of yours?
Have a pop at the Tories? Dance on Margaret Thatcher's grave? Build more council estates in London?

Back on topic, could it help if fewer people from all over the world came to live in London thinking the streets are paved with gold? In other words an end to the free movement of people.

Since the Brexit vote, immigration has declined.
However immigration will not cease when we leave the EU.
Even now they are negotiating to allow freedom of movement to remain after we leave.
What needs to be done, is to stop the selling off of Council and Housing Association properties, and to start building more.