What to do with chasings

[sparkymcsparkf]

Hi guys,

I would be hugely appreciative for any input on this.

Basically my electrician did a full rewire and didnt use any capping or conduit, which as I understand is OK within the regs (as long as RCA protected which they are), but considered a bit unprofessional in the trade depending on who you talk to.

The electrician 'made Good 'in the chases for an extra 100 quid. I said about the wires poking out and he said it doesn't matter as the plasterer would be going over them. I think the plaster is usable, as such I dont need to have the walls replastered. So now I need to know what to do with these chases sonI can get the wires under the surface if the wall.

My instinct on the last 2 (dining room) is that I can chip away the existing plaster that he has used and push the wires back and go over it with a filler so that they sit properly in the chase. I'm a bit afraid of doing it though as I'm scared I may damage the wires. Also it looks like the wires have crossed over each other in the chase..is that supposed to happen/ok?

My biggest concern is the picture below where the wire is dropping from the ceiling (breakfast room) in the chases. No amount of plaster would set that right..it just looks like he hasn't used enough wire.

I am really at a loss as to what I can do. As far as I am aware as there are no regs broken I dont have the right to demand he comes back and fix it. But I dont know what I can and can't do.

If you guys could let me know how you would deal with this I would be hugely grateful. Any input at all...its honestly cooking my brain!!

Cheers!!

 

[Spoon]

Have you paid for the work?
Have you received an electrical cert for the work?
Is this the same electrician that did the work in your last post.

 

[sparkymcsparkf]

Have you paid for the work?
Have you received an electrical cert for the work?
Is this the same electrician that did the work in your last post.

Thanks for your response.

Yes, paid for the work and received certificates. And it is the same electrician from the last post. The work was done in January but due to lockdown and ill health I havent been able to look at doing anything until now.

 

[OnlQQker]

That will all skim over ok. Will need plasterboard anglebeads to form new corners though. Use scrim tape to cover up any cracks or week points in old plaster. Will also need 50/50 mix of pva (twice), the architraves will also need to come off around any doors.

I plastered over something a lot worse a few weeks back for a mate. The electrician had run so many cables including the 25mm consumer unit tails, none of it was capped.
He was a qualified electrician and signed it all off but I thought the whole thing was absolutely awful.
Anybody else and I would of walked away but this was for a mate like I said.

Once plastered you would never know what was going on in the wall, Just try and make a note so you don't put a nail through a cable when hanging a picture etc.

I'm assuming all the electrical works has been signed off?

 

[Red Tony]

Rough rough
And that's not a dog barking.

 

[Rockingit]

Pretty rough, tbh. I can only assume that the installer assumed he was being followed by the plasterer. As others have said, you're kind of stuck with it now but a decent tradesmen plasterer or decorater should be able to tackle it without too much hassle.

 

[Spoon]

As above, it looks rough.
Are all cables in the correct zones? See below.

 

[catdog1121]

looks like he has used bonding plaster which is great for first fill but you never get a decent finish. When you hired this guy was he the cheapest quote by any chance?

 

[LastManOnline]

Pretty rough, tbh. I can only assume that the installer assumed he was being followed by the plasterer. As others have said, you're kind of stuck with it now but a decent tradesmen plasterer or decorater should be able to tackle it without too much hassle.

Is it OK in UK to plaster over pvc/pvc that does, nt have some form of containment?

 

[Mike Johnson]

Unfortunately yes as long as the cable is RCD protected at the DB.

 

[nicebutdim]

Pretty rough, tbh. I can only assume that the installer assumed he was being followed by the plasterer. As others have said, you're kind of stuck with it now but a decent tradesmen plasterer or decorater should be able to tackle it without too much hassle.

Seems to be the case, but he must have been expecting quite a depth of plaster to cover that cable cutting across from ceiling to wall.

 

[JBW175]

looks like he's ran the cables up then used hardwall to fix them in position. If he'd cut a bit deeper on the chases, laid the cables flat and clipped them in position, they wouldn't be sticking out like that.

 

[snowhead]

A decent plasterer would have refused to do that job untill the cables were clipped in the chase flatter or deeper.

Looks like he's trying to hold the cables to the wall with plaster, probably because the chases aren't deep enough to have cable clips in.

Scraping the base coat away to give some depth for the finish would be the normal fix but I suspect you'll just expose more of the cable.
I doubt that plaster has bonded to the wall very well at all, it's probably being held in by the cables.

There doesn't have to be any regs broken, you've paid for a rewire and paid extra for plastering.
Both jobs are shoddy and incomplete.

All the plaster in the chase needs breaking out, it won't be too difficult, then the cables need fixing back allowing enough clearance for new base and finish plaster level with the old plasterwork

 

[LastManOnline]

Unfortunately yes as long as the cable is RCD protected at the DB.

That's interesting. But what about protection against chemical attack? Are there restrictions on what kind of plaster or cement you can use?

 

[LastManOnline]

A decent plasterer would have refused to do that job untill the cables were clipped in the chase flatter or deeper.

Looks like he's trying to hold the cables to the wall with plaster, probably because the chases aren't deep enough to have cable clips in.

Scraping the base coat away to give some depth for the finish would be the normal fix but I suspect you'll just expose more of the cable.
I doubt that plaster has bonded to the wall very well at all, it's probably being held in by the cables.

There doesn't have to be any regs broken, you've paid for a rewire and paid extra for plastering.
Both jobs are shoddy and incomplete.

All the plaster in the chase needs breaking out, it won't be too difficult, then the cables need fixing back allowing enough clearance for new base and finish plaster level with the old plasterwork

Can I take it no regs were broken? PVC cables are normally required to be "protected against harmful substances in concrete or plaster". Does BS7671 not have something similar to this reg?

 

[David Prosser]

I'm not aware of plaster or cement being harmful to modern PVC cables, even lime plaster has been shown to not have any effect on it. The use of capping or oval trunking is for mechanical protection form the plasterers trowel.

 

[LastManOnline]

I'm not aware of plaster or cement being harmful to modern PVC cables, even lime plaster has been shown to not have any effect on it. The use of capping or oval trunking is for mechanical protection form the plasterers trowel.

That is Interesting. Would you have any references for that.?Is there any comment/notes in the UK regs about that? . I have also never seen any damage to pvc from plaster or cement myself up until very recently. Towards the end of the boom years here there was a huge demand for concrete. Suppliers would drop it off early morning, heavily laced with a retarding agent to slow hardening. This was unfortunately acid based. Its now coming home to roost causing all sorts of problems for pvc cables that came in contact with it

 

[David Prosser]

Try the manufacturers website.

 

[Mike Johnson]

In the 60's it was High Alumina Cement that caused the problems corroding reinforcement, the collapse of the swimming pool roof at "The Sir John Cass Foundation" was the beginning of it being banned in the UK.

 

[LastManOnline]

In the 60's it was High Alumina Cement that caused the problems corroding reinforcement, the collapse of the swimming pool roof at "The Sir John Cass Foundation" was the beginning of it being banned in the UK.

Interesting. My curiosity is aroused because the UK and ROI regs are so similar in many ways that I just naturally assumed you would not be allowed to plaster over pvc directly. I have no issue with it as clearly in the UK you nowadays don't experience any problems doing it (though it I, m not sure I would adopt the practice). But I wondered what your or if your regs had something specific to say on the matter?

 

[Mike Johnson]

I am not up on the current UK regulations and will leave others to comment on that, but in France all cables are run in flexible conduit or Gaine as its called, the difference with the French supplied Gain is that it all has draw wires or is cable populated already.

 

[LastManOnline]

I am not up on the UK regulations and will leave others to comment on that, but in France all cables are run in flexible conduit or Gaine as its called, the difference with the French supplied Gain is that it all has draw wires or is cable populated already.

Yes. That would generally be the norm in mainland Europe. They prefer flexible pipe to our wavin or your capping. The UK are the first country that I am aware of to allow direct plastering of pvc

 

[Mike Johnson]

That's probably because of the use of T&E cable so except for the CPC the cables are double insulated.

 

[MJPD29]

So rough. Not a chance I would be installing cables to be directly plastered over. Common practice here is to use conduit every time. Personally I think its much much better than capping also.

 

[LastManOnline]

So rough. Not a chance I would be installing cables to be directly plastered over. Common practice here is to use conduit every time. Personally I think its much much better than capping also.

Yes. That's what I would have expected. Are you a UK based sparks? Would you know which reg (if any) in BS7671gives guidance on installing pvc cables in wall chases?

 

[MJPD29]

Yes. That's what I would have expected. Are you a UK based sparks? Would you know which reg (if any) in BS7671gives guidance on installing pvc cables in wall chases?

Well I live in Ireland, but follow BS7671 as I'm north of the border. I could be wrong, but I'm not aware of any reg to say that cables can't be directly plastered over if RCD protected

 

[LastManOnline]

Well I live in Ireland, but follow BS7671 as I'm north of the border. I could be wrong, but I'm not aware of any reg to say that cables can't be directly plastered over if RCD protected

Good to know. So if no rcd cables must have protection. ?

 

[goasis]

I'm not aware of any regs that link plastering directly over twin and earth cabling and the need for rcd protection....capping, conduit or just clips... Makes no difference to requirement for an rcd on the circuit

 

[Taylortwocities]

Unfortunately yes as long as the cable is RCD protected at the DB.

That’s not true. RCD protection has nothing to do with it.

 

[MJPD29]

Good to know. So if no rcd cables must have protection. ?

If buried less than 50mm. Or mechanical protection.

 

[nicebutdim]

If buried less than 50mm. Or mechanical protection.

Am I right in stating that the mechanical protection should be earthed steel conduit if no RCD is to be in place?

 

[JBW175]

Yes. That's what I would have expected. Are you a UK based sparks? Would you know which reg (if any) in BS7671gives guidance on installing pvc cables in wall chases?

It's covered in BS7671 in Appendix 4 page 389 as a recognised installation method; table 4A2 numbers 57 & 58 respectively.

Single or Multicore cable direct in masonary without (57) / with (58) added mechanical protection is reference method C.

Reference method C is described on page 384, the term masonry is to include brickwork, concrete, plaster and similar, but exclude thermally insulated materials.

 

[LastManOnline]

It's covered in BS7671 in Appendix 4 page 389 as a recognised installation method; table 4A2 numbers 57 & 58 respectively.

Single or Multicore cable direct in masonary without (57) / with (58) added mechanical protection is reference method C.

Reference method C is described on page 384, the term masonry is to include brickwork, concrete, plaster and similar, but exclude thermally insulated materials.

Much appreciated. Thanks. ?

 

[Mike Johnson]

That’s not true. RCD protection has nothing to do with it.

Posting a rebuttal to a post two pages on without context or the post it was an answer too is not helpful.

 

[Taylortwocities]

Good to know. So if no rcd cables must have

Posting a rebuttal to a post two pages on without context or the post it was an answer too is not helpful.

My post #19 does have the context quoted.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Post No 19 is about high alumina cement?

 

[DPG]

Mile, the post of Taylor's that you commented about is #29, and this does have context with it - the previous reply has been quoted.

I think post #19 was probably mentioned in error.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Notwithstanding, the post was incorrect when he says that RCD's have nothing to do with buried cables.

 

[Mike Johnson]

7.2.5 Requirements for RCD"s

522.6.202 (f) For cables without earthed metallic covering installed in wall or partitions at a depth of less than 50mm and not protected by earthed steel conduit or similar.

Note: Metallic capping does not meet the requirements fo mechanical protection as required by 522.6.204. Metallic capping is used to protect the cables during the installation process and, once plastered over, does not provide any further protection.

 

[nicebutdim]

I think it's fair to state that the vast majority of domestic installations in the UK wouldn't meet the stipulations for exemption from RCD protection. I think it's also fair to state that it's often cheaper to fit a new CU, than adding additional protections.

The question posed in the OP was whether or not a new CU was required and, while it's easy to state that it would be better/easier/cheaper to fit a new CU, can anyone really give an empirical answer about what is actually required (as opposed to what might be recommended) on the basis of one image? While there may be a best method for skinning a cat, as the old proverb states; "there is more than one way" to do so.

 

[Mike Johnson]

I thought his main concern was the exposed cable, I don't think he even mentioned a CU except to say that the cables had RCD protection.

 

[nicebutdim]

I thought his main concern was the exposed cable, I don't think he even mentioned a CU except to say that the cables had RCD protection.

No idea how I managed to post that here as it was intended for this thread:

https://www.electriciansforums.net/threads/does-this-consumer-unit-need-replacing.191077/

Surprised no one else mentioned the complete lack of context!

 

[Mike Johnson]

No idea how I managed to post that here as it was intended for this thread:

https://www.electriciansforums.net/threads/does-this-consumer-unit-need-replacing.191077/

Surprised no one else mentioned the complete lack of context!

Or why three people agreed with you. (insert winking smily)