Where to attach neutral/ground in breaker panel

[JoeXYZ]

Installing an over the range microwave, ran the (yellow) wire to the box, but where can I attach the ground and neutral wires? The one bus on the right is full, the second bus on the right is empty, but can I use it? Nothing else is attached to it.

 

[Megawatt]

Installing an over the range microwave, ran the (yellow) wire to the box, but where can I attach the ground and neutral wires? The one bus on the right is full, the second bus on the right is empty, but can I use it? Nothing else is attached to it.

If that’s is your main panel you can hook up the grounds and neutrals to any one of the bars. If it’s a sub fed panel the neutrals have to be isolated from the grounds

 

[Soi disant]

The one bus on the right is full, the second bus on the right is empty, but can I use it?

Surely it's all the same piece of metal?

 

[Megawatt]

Surely it's all the same piece of metal?

No it’s not, the neutral bar has an insulator on the bottom and is not an integral part of the panel, the ground bar doesn’t have an insulator

 

[Soi disant]

Can't I see ground and neutral conductors connected to the same things?

 

[Megawatt]

Can't I see ground and neutral conductors connected to the same things?

Yes in the first panel after the power company service and any panel after that the neutrals and grounds must be separated

 

[Soi disant]

Either I'm more confused than I thought, or we're at cross-purposes.

Am I not seeing, where highlighted, ground and neutral conductors connected together?

 

[Megawatt]

Either I'm more confused than I thought, or we're at cross-purposes.

Am I not seeing, where highlighted, ground and neutral conductors connected together?

View attachment 85034

Let me ask you a question. Is that the only panel you have and is it located outside

 

[Soi disant]

You should ask JoeXYZ, not me ?

 

[Soi disant]

Yes in the first panel after the power company service and any panel after that the neutrals and grounds must be separated

Would this be a 3-pole switch, or only 2P, for the two lives?

 

[Megawatt]

Would this be a 3-pole switch, or only 2P, for the two lives?

View attachment 85041

It is a 2 pole 240vac. Residential is only 240/120 vac

 

[Soi disant]

So if neutral isn't switched, then whatever the power company think about it, the electrons aren't going to be able to tell the difference between neutral and ground only combined to the point of entry of the service, and them being combined all the way to the distribution board, as in this case.

 

[Soi disant]

No it’s not, the neutral bar has an insulator on the bottom and is not an integral part of the panel, the ground bar doesn’t have an insulator

So, in terms of the panel construction, what are A, B, and C, and which have continuity?

 

[Megawatt]

So, in terms of the panel construction, what are A, B, and C, and which have continuity?

View attachment 85044

You just have A phase and B phase and the neutral that’s in the middle looks burnt. It appears to be loose

 

[JoeXYZ]

Let me ask you a question. Is that the only panel you have and is it located outside

It's the only panel, it's inside.

 

[Soi disant]

You just have A phase and B phase and the neutral that’s in the middle looks burnt. It appears to be loose

Something is going wrong with our communication.

How can either A or B be phase connections when they have both neutral and ground conductors connected to them?

 

[Megawatt]

Something is going wrong with our communication.

How can either A or B be phase connections when they have both neutral and ground conductors connected to them?

It may appear to all be together but turn all power off a read on the OHMS scale. Phase A and B will not read to ground. I think that you need a licensed electrician to help you

 

[DPG]

It may appear to all be together but turn all power off a read on the OHMS scale. Phase A and B will not read to ground. I think that you need a licensed electrician to help you

Soi isn't the OP. I think he's just needing a bit of guidance on how American panels are set up.

 

[Soi disant]

It may appear to all be together but turn all power off a read on the OHMS scale. Phase A and B will not read to ground. I think that you need a licensed electrician to help you

I am finding my patience tried, so I hope this doesn't seem unacceptably aggresive:

None of the bars which I have labelled A, B and C are phase terminals.

None of the conductors connected to the bars which I have labelled A, B and C are phase conductors - they are all neutrals or grounds.

So what are A, B, and C, and which have continuity?

 

[DPG]

I am finding my patience tried, so I hope this doesn't seem unacceptably aggresive:

None of the bars which I have labelled A, B and C are phase terminals.

None of the conductors connected to the bars which I have labelled A, B and C are phase conductors - they are all neutrals or grounds.

So what are A, B, and C, and which have continuity?

I think perhaps MW is referring to the two incoming phases as A and B.

 

[Megawatt]

I am finding my patience tried, so I hope this doesn't seem unacceptably aggresive:

None of the bars which I have labelled A, B and C are phase terminals.

None of the conductors connected to the bars which I have labelled A, B and C are phase conductors - they are all neutrals or grounds.

So what are A, B, and C, and which have continuity?

I read your profile and are you in the UK ? If you are referring to the US way of panels the left screw is 1 live terminal, the middle screw is your neutral and the screw on the right is your other live terminal. The middle screw is attached to the ground bar and neutral bar. The right screw and left screw are attached to the phase conducters . I don’t know what else to say. Hire an electrician

 

[Soi disant]

Sigh.

Just as per the label in my post #13, what is the bar I have labelled A, which has a mix of bare and white-sleeved conductors to it? I find it really hard to believe that it is, as you replied in #14, a phase terminal.

Just as per the label in my post #13, what is the bar I have labelled B?

Just as per the label in my post #13, what is the bar I have labelled C, which has a mix of bare and white-sleeved conductors to it? I find it really hard to believe that it is, as you replied in #14, a phase terminal.

And what continuity, if any, exists between A & B, A & C or B & C?

 

[Megawatt]

Sigh.

View attachment 85629

Just as per the label in my post #13, what is the bar I have labelled A, which has a mix of bare and white-sleeved conductors to it? I find it really hard to believe that it is, as you replied in #14, a phase terminal.

Just as per the label in my post #13, what is the bar I have labelled B?

Just as per the label in my post #13, what is the bar I have labelled C, which has a mix of bare and white-sleeved conductors to it? I find it really hard to believe that it is, as you replied in #14, a phase terminal.

And what continuity, if any, exists between A & B, A & C or B & C?

Listen my friend the bars you have labeled A B C is the neutral/ ground bar which is legal by code, any panel sub fed from this panel you have to keep the neutrals separate from the grounds. A B C are all connected to the lug on top in the middle. As far as continuity A B and C WILL read together

 

[DPG]

Soi, I don't think MW saw the a,b,c labels that you added to the picture. He was referring to A and B as the 2 incoming phases. Hence the confusion.

I think we all knew the neutral and earth bars weren't connected to the phases.

None of this is helping the OP of course.

 

[Soi disant]

Soi, I don't think MW saw the a,b,c labels that you added to the picture. He was referring to A and B as the 2 incoming phases. Hence the confusion.

So he didn't see the photo in my post which he quoted when replying.

OK.

I think we all knew the neutral and earth bars weren't connected to the phases.

Indeed, but as I never in a million years considered the possibility that when he replied to #13 which had a large photo with quite vividly coloured labels on it and text which explicitly referred to them he hadn't actually looked at the photo, I wondered WT.. was going on.

None of this is helping the OP of course.

No, but it does seem to have been unfortunately much prolonged - all I was after was clarification of what MW said at the end of this sequence:

Installing an over the range microwave, ran the (yellow) wire to the box, but where can I attach the ground and neutral wires? The one bus on the right is full, the second bus on the right is empty, but can I use it? Nothing else is attached to it.

Surely it's all the same piece of metal?

No it’s not, the neutral bar has an insulator on the bottom and is not an integral part of the panel, the ground bar doesn’t have an insulator

Because that separation of N & G (perfectly believable) would mean that the N & G conductors should not be connected together as they are.

 

[Megawatt]

So he didn't see the photo in my post which he quoted when replying.

OK.


Indeed, but as I never in a million years considered the possibility that when he replied to #13 which had a large photo with quite vividly coloured labels on it and text which explicitly referred to them he hadn't actually looked at the photo, I wondered WT.. was going on.


No, but it does seem to have been unfortunately much prolonged - all I was after was clarification of what MW said at the end of this sequence:






Because that separation of N & G (perfectly believable) would mean that the N & G conductors should not be connected together as they are.

Sol I hope your not an electrician because that would be an accident waiting to happen. Just because I missed your A B C stickers doesn’t mean I gave you the wrong advice. What you have is perfectly legal in your first panel after the power company’s meter and for the 5th time you have to separate the grounds from the neutral. If you know it all we should be asking you for advice, and since you don’t have a clue about electrical you need to find something else to do.

 

[DPG]

Sol I hope your not an electrician because that would be an accident waiting to happen. Just because I missed your A B C stickers doesn’t mean I gave you the wrong advice. What you have is perfectly legal in your first panel after the power company’s meter and for the 5th time you have to separate the grounds from the neutral. If you know it all we should be asking you for advice, and since you don’t have a clue about electrical you need to find something else to do.

Megawatt, Soi isn't the original poster. The OP hasn't been on here since April 18th.

 

[westward10]

It's a miracle we won the war??

 

[Soi disant]

Sol I hope your not an electrician because that would be an accident waiting to happen. Just because I missed your A B C stickers doesn’t mean I gave you the wrong advice. What you have is perfectly legal in your first panel after the power company’s meter and for the 5th time you have to separate the grounds from the neutral. If you know it all we should be asking you for advice, and since you don’t have a clue about electrical you need to find something else to do.

For at least the third time, it's not my panel.

You've missed reading that.

You've missed seeing the labels on my photo.

You say you've not given wrong advice when you've said both that the N&G bars are not one and the same and that they are.

You're the last one who should be lecturing others on their competence.

I'm done here now.

 

[DPG]

For at least the third time, it's not my panel.

You've missed reading that.

You've missed seeing the labels on my photo.

You say you've not given wrong advice when you've said both that the N&G bars are not one and the same and that they are.

You're the last one who should be lecturing others on their competence.

I'm done here now.

Maybe there have been some misunderstandings on this thread, but Megawatt is a respected member on here.