Whole Kitchen wiring diagram advice (excluding lights)

[benhurr]

Hi everyone,
please advice and comment on the attached wiring diagram for a kitchen.
There are mixed opinions on the need for FSU-s and number of circuits required.
Distance to cu – 8m running under timber floor. kitchen size – 3.5M X 2.5M

 

[DPG]

You have a lot of fairly high power appliances on one ring there. I would definitely makes some changes to that arrangement.

 

[benhurr]

You have a lot of fairly high power appliances on one ring there. I would definitely makes some changes to that arrangement.

I did some amendments: split in 2 rings (top sockets and appliances separately from bottom ones) and split hob and cooker

 

[DPG]

Out of interest are you designing, installing and certifying this work yourself or will someone else be involved?

 

[benhurr]

Out of interest are you designing, installing and certifying this work yourself or will someone else be involved?

Someone else, but he already disagrees with you regarding the splitting of the ring c.
So

"Out of interest"

3rd opinion is always welcome. (4th as well))

 

[benhurr]

sockets were upside down, otherwise any other worries?

 

[DPG]

sockets were upside down, otherwise any other worries?

Not sure your sparky is going to be too keen on you changing his design?

 

[benhurr]

Someone else, but he already disagrees with you regarding the splitting of the ring c.
So

3rd opinion is always welcome. (4th as well))

4th opinion from Screwfix forum: 2 rings not necessary, only recommended separate circuit for hot tap. He also thinks hob and oven can be together. Basically he is partially agrees with my local el-cian ( agrees on 1rc , but disagrees on oven/hob separation).
3 elcians – 3 different opinions

 

[benhurr]

Not sure your sparky is going to be too keen on you changing his design?

being slightly pointless?

 

[DPG]

4th opinion from Screwfix forum: 2 rings not necessary, only recommended separate circuit for hot tap. He also thinks hob and oven can be together. Basically he is partially agrees with my local el-cian ( agrees on 1rc , but disagrees on oven/hob separation)

Personally I'd get another electrician to give you a quote and see what their opinion is.

 

[benhurr]

Personally I'd get another electrician to give you a quote and see what their opinion is.

are you going to change your mind if he will disagree with you?)) unlikely

 

[DPG]

are you going to change your mind if he will disagree with you?)) unlikely

Personally no, I wouldn't change my mind. But I'm only one person.

Hopefully some other members will give their opinion on your original arrangement.

 

[Rockingit]

Hi everyone,
please advice and comment on the attached wiring diagram for a kitchen.
There are mixed opinions on the need for FSU-s and number of circuits required.
Distance to cu – 8m running under timber floor. kitchen size – 3.5M X 2.5M

To be honest, that's a very poorly designed system both practically and technically.

 

[benhurr]

Personally no, I wouldn't change my mind. But I'm only one person.

Hopefully some other members will give their opinion on your original arrangement.

so the ring is being split in 2 and your still find it original? I can see, some suggest putting boiler on separate C, and frfreezer on separate C. This way I will run out of space in CU pretty soon.

 

[DPG]

so the ring is being split in 2 and your still find it original? I can see, some suggest putting boiler on separate C, and frfreezer on separate C. This way I will run out of space in CU pretty soon.

You were still saying people were disagreeing with my opinion though.

You really need a proper sparky to design this rather than tinkering with stuff yourself. There's no shame in knowing your limitations.

 

[James]

there are 2 things playing on my mind here.

1. as a contractor, I am happy when i have a clear design brief.
this should include the rating of any fixed appliance's and in the case of a kitchen, any other high power device's that are likely to have a permanent home. (microwave, kettle, toaster, washing machine, dishwasher etc.)

I would generally not expect a customer to be particularly interested in the precise layout of the circuits, however i would lay it out on the quote, how many circuits and there rating and use.
i.e.
1 Induction Hob supply 32A
2 cooker and microwave supply 32A
3 general sockets ring 32A
4 waste disposal and boiling water tap 20A

if the customer decided they wanted 2 rings of sockets or the microwave and cooker on different supplies, then i would re quote.
if they want every socket on its own 20A radial then its fine by me but the price is steadily climbing.

2.
if you are arguing about what is the right way to wire your kitchen with the electrician at the quotation stage, the customer/contractor relationship is already broken.

as a contractor we should be providing what the customer wants
however sometimes the customer wants something that is either not possible or cost effective and this needs to be pointed out early on.
i.e. yes of course i can put everything on a separate circuit but it will be £800 more, why not do it this way instead?

sometimes customers have too much time on there hands to read things on the internet about electrical installation that sounds great but is at best misinformed and at worst downright dangerous.

sometimes contractors are simply bad at there job and sometimes the good (technically) ones have a chip on their shoulder and cant deal with a customer wanting it done their way because that's not how they wanted to do it.

a realy good contractor should be able to deal with both the technicality's of providing a safe and good quality installation whilst also having the ability to deal with customers, even the difficult ones, in a professional way.

p.s. some customers can make the last comment impossible but i am not suggesting that you are one of them.

 

[benhurr]

You were still saying people were disagreeing with my opinion though.

You really need a proper sparky to design this rather than tinkering with stuff yourself. There's no shame in knowing your limitations.

yet you are not admitting you own)), first you should obey your own logic then you can preach

 

[Rockingit]

so the ring is being split in 2 and your still find it original? I can see, some suggest putting boiler on separate C, and frfreezer on separate C. This way I will run out of space in CU pretty soon.

As a rule we're pretty relaxed on here about DIY'ers because generally speaking they tend to be genuinely asking for advice, however all you seem to be wanting to do is find validation for your own [very limited and ill-advised] viewpoint??

I'm also very much inclined to think that you're about to do this work yourself and CLEARLY do not possess the understanding to do so safely. Had you have started this conversation by saying something like "I'm not sure my electrician is very experienced because they're suggesting....." then we could be better able to help you. However attempting to pit a set of armchair Screwfix opinions against a forum of extremely skilled and experienced electricians and electrical engineers isn't really going to get you very far.

 

[DPG]

yet you are not admitting you own)), first you should obey your own logic then you can preach

I don't understand what you mean, sorry.

Anyway, I've given my opinion. Hopefully you can move on with a suitable sparky who will design, install and test a suitable solution.

 

[benhurr]

there are 2 things playing on my mind here.

1. as a contractor, I am happy when i have a clear design brief.
this should include the rating of any fixed appliance's and in the case of a kitchen, any other high power device's that are likely to have a permanent home. (microwave, kettle, toaster, washing machine, dishwasher etc.)

I would generally not expect a customer to be particularly interested in the precise layout of the circuits, however i would lay it out on the quote, how many circuits and there rating and use.
i.e.
1 Induction Hob supply 32A
2 cooker and microwave supply 32A
3 general sockets ring 32A
4 waste disposal and boiling water tap 20A

if the customer decided they wanted 2 rings of sockets or the microwave and cooker on different supplies, then i would re quote.
if they want every socket on its own 20A radial then its fine by me but the price is steadily climbing.

2.
if you are arguing about what is the right way to wire your kitchen with the electrician at the quotation stage, the customer/contractor relationship is already broken.

as a contractor we should be providing what the customer wants
however sometimes the customer wants something that is either not possible or cost effective and this needs to be pointed out early on.
i.e. yes of course i can put everything on a separate circuit but it will be £800 more, why not do it this way instead?

sometimes customers have too much time on there hands to read things on the internet about electrical installation that sounds great but is at best misinformed and at worst downright dangerous.

sometimes contractors are simply bad at there job and sometimes the good (technically) ones have a chip on their shoulder and cant deal with a customer wanting it done their way because that's not how they wanted to do it.

a realy good contractor should be able to deal with both the technicality's of providing a safe and good quality installation whilst also having the ability to deal with customers, even the difficult ones, in a professional way.

p.s. some customers can make the last comment impossible but i am not suggesting that you are one of them.

Interesting idea regarding the split groups. I can see by the amount of opinions this is more like art than precise science. Thank you for your input. Regarding "2" I just need different opinions from professional as I have being let down by them occasionally