Whole Kitchen wiring diagram advice (excluding lights)

[benhurr]

I don't understand what you mean, sorry.

Anyway, I've given my opinion. Hopefully you can move on with a suitable sparky who will design, install and test a suitable solution.

Pardon me, This Was regarding your notes about "limit of knowledge", you admitted that you would do not want to change your opinion regardless if there will be conflicting information coming from more qualified electrician, so this mean you where ashamed to admit limit of your own knowledge (potentially) . And yet you are asking others to be shameless in this regard

 

[James]

Interesting idea regarding the split groups. I can see by the amount of opinions this is more like art than precise science. Thank you for your input. Regarding "2" I just need different opinions from professional as I have being let down by them occasionally

What I posted was NOT a recommendation as to how I would lay out your circuits, just an example of how I would deal with quoting for a kitchen fit out.

Take no notice of me, I am not even registered to provide part P certification so cant be bright enough to do domestic installations.

however I do know a bit about electrics and the ins and outs of customer/contractor relationships and that was where my post was aimed at.

 

[benhurr]

To be honest, that's a very poorly designed system both practically and technically.

thanks, would you care to specify main objections?

 

[DPG]

Pardon me, This Was regarding your notes about "limit of knowledge", you admitted that you would do not want to change your opinion regardless if there will be conflicting information coming from more qualified electrician, so this mean you where ashamed to admit limit of your own knowledge (potentially) . And yet you are asking others to be shameless in this regard

Look, your original idea was not good. I advised there were two many high power appliances on the one ring circuit, which I stand by. Others also agreed with this.

It's no good you just tinkering around with things when you aren't aware of the regulations or reasoning behind them.

If someone wants to disagree with me then I'm fine with that. As I said, I only one person.

Up to you. Feel free to 'design by screwfix forum' if you wish.

 

[benhurr]

Look, your original idea was not good. I advised there were two many high power appliances on the one ring circuit, which I stand by. Others also agreed with this.

It's no good you just tinkering around with things when you aren't aware of the regulations or reasoning behind them.

If someone wants to disagree with me then I'm fine with that. As I said, I only one person.

Up to you. Feel free to 'design by screwfix forum' if you wish.

it was not just Screwfix but local qualified certified electrician as well, the only change he made is splitting hob and oven. there is an updated version of diagram with 2 c rings and separate hob/oven. Yet you don't want to admit your own limitations. And should I state the obvious that anyone who is asking for advice here in diy section is admitting his limitation by definition. please

 

[mainline]

Hi everyone,
please advice and comment on the attached wiring diagram for a kitchen.
There are mixed opinions on the need for FSU-s and number of circuits required.
Distance to cu – 8m running under timber floor. kitchen size – 3.5M X 2.5M

Is this a !960s house ?

I agree with DPG about the single ring main.



Fridge /freezer
Hot tap
Boiler
Ideally, should be on their own circuits

If you're running out of Cu ways, you could always add a small kitchen Cu and have more radial circuits.

 

[mainline]

it was not just Screwfix but local qualified certified electrician as well, the only change he made is splitting hob and oven. there is an updated version of diagram with 2 c rings and separate hob/oven. Yet you don't want to admit your own limitations. And should I state the obvious that anyone who is asking for advice here in diy section is admitting his limitation by definition. please

Competent or qualified ? As there is a big difference.

 

[benhurr]

Competent or qualified ? As there is a big difference.

this is why I am here

 

[benhurr]

Is this a !960s house ?

I agree with DPG about the single ring main.



Fridge /freezer
Hot tap
Boiler
Ideally, should be on their own circuits

If you're running out of Cu ways, you could always add a small kitchen Cu and have more radial circuits.

ideally I would live on Tenerife what is Within regs is fine by me for now ( the house is 1890s))

 

[benhurr]

Is this a !960s house ?

I agree with DPG about the single ring main.



Fridge /freezer
Hot tap
Boiler
Ideally, should be on their own circuits

If you're running out of Cu ways, you could always add a small kitchen Cu and have more radial circuits.

thank you! is this any closer to ideal?:

 

[benhurr]

according to this thorough video YouTube video regarding cooking appliances with reg. references it is fine to put up to 15KW of cooking appliances on one 32A mcb circuit (due to diversity calculations ):

 

[mainline]

thank you! is this any closer to ideal?:View attachment 111824

Ideally, every appliance would be on its own dp rcbo.
Dishwasher/tumble dryer/washing machine etc would have isolator switch feeding single socket, not fcu.

 

[DPG]

thank you! is this any closer to ideal?:View attachment 111824

Not ideal having spurs off the ring when it's a new installation. Often done when modifying an existing circuit though.

 

[benhurr]

Ideally, every appliance would be on its own dp rcbo.
Dishwasher/tumble dryer/washing machine etc would have isolator switch feeding single socket, not fcu.

i assume in this case isolator switch only required if the socket is behind the appliance and not easily accessible, otherwise why isolator if there is accessible plug? Or is it for extra safety due to water and steam additional hazard? and there were no fcu's on diagram next to appliances , only on integrated microwave because I assume it will come without plug. so just to recap: If it is not on a single socket on diagram it means the appliance is coming without plug. Not all appliances are purchased yet so this part is variable at the moment. All those switches be inside cabinets (within 2 meters from relevant appliance)

 

[benhurr]

Not ideal having spurs off the ring when it's a new installation. Often done when modifying an existing circuit though.

is this any better? thanks

 

[loz2754]

Might as well give my thoughts I guess.
In principle I do agree that more circuits is better, as it gives more selectivity between loads. So if one part of the installation becomes faulty, other parts remain intact and in service.

But I also believe in simplicity where possible.

One thing you need to change is having the fridge freezer on A 6 amp MCB. It may only have a small running current, but when the compressor(s) start there is a significant startup surge which will trip a 6A MCB.

The sort of thing that even a competent DIYer will probably not be aware of.

Installation design, even at a relatively simple level, is in my opinion beyond the scope of DIY, because there are so many factors that need to be coordinated, and a huge book of regulations that are applicable and need to be adhered to.

 

[Avo Mk8]

I assume it will come without plug.

The UK Plugs and Sockets Regulations require appliances (rated under 13A) to be fitted with plugs by the manufacturers.
It was prompted by the number of accidents caused by people fitting their own plugs! There are exceptions, but you will find when you buy your appliances pretty well all, other than a high current hob, will be fitted with a moulded on plug. (Which brings another complication - if you cut that plug off, and the appliance is subsequently faulty, you may well get told that the warranty is void because you cut the plug off, which is rubbish, but still seems to be a prevalent thing)

The Plugs and Sockets etc. (Safety) Regulations 1994

These Regulations re–enact with modifications the provisions of the Plugs and Sockets etc. (Safety) Regulations 1987 (S.I. 1987/603) and make provision for the first time for certain requirements to be satisfied in relation to appliances.

www.legislation.gov.uk

 

[loz2754]

The UK Plugs and Sockets Regulations require appliances (rated under 13A) to be fitted with plugs by the manufacturers.
It was prompted by the number of accidents caused by people fitting their own plugs! There are exceptions, but you will find when you buy your appliances pretty well all, other than a high current hob, will be fitted with a moulded on plug.

The Plugs and Sockets etc. (Safety) Regulations 1994

These Regulations re–enact with modifications the provisions of the Plugs and Sockets etc. (Safety) Regulations 1987 (S.I. 1987/603) and make provision for the first time for certain requirements to be satisfied in relation to appliances.

www.legislation.gov.uk

Yes indeed. I'd forgotten about this. And it would seem so have some manufacturers of appliances. I had a 2.3kW oven to fit the other day that didn't come with a plug. In fact the flex had a label wrapped around it stating "do not fit a plug".

 

[Rockingit]

The UK Plugs and Sockets Regulations require appliances (rated under 13A) to be fitted with plugs by the manufacturers.
It was prompted by the number of accidents caused by people fitting their own plugs! There are exceptions, but you will find when you buy your appliances pretty well all, other than a high current hob, will be fitted with a moulded on plug. (Which brings another complication - if you cut that plug off, and the appliance is subsequently faulty, you may well get told that the warranty is void because you cut the plug off, which is rubbish, but still seems to be a prevalent thing)

The Plugs and Sockets etc. (Safety) Regulations 1994

These Regulations re–enact with modifications the provisions of the Plugs and Sockets etc. (Safety) Regulations 1987 (S.I. 1987/603) and make provision for the first time for certain requirements to be satisfied in relation to appliances.

www.legislation.gov.uk

Esther Rantzen's finest work!

 

[DPG]

Yes indeed. I'd forgotten about this. And it would seem so have some manufacturers of appliances. I had a 2.3kW oven to fit the other day that didn't come with a plug. In fact the flex had a label wrapped around it starting "do not fit a plug".

I've a feeling it excludes items which are intended for installation by an electrician. But any appliance which is for immediate use by the general public must be fitted with a plug*. Not 100% on this though so happy to be proved wrong.

*plugtop, but don't say it 3 times!