Working on live distribution boards?

[Davehaywire]

Can anyone tell me if I'm asked to work on a live db be it TP or SP lv ,by my employer,as I have done for many many years in cases where the board cannot be isolated for various reasons.
if for some reason I'm electrocuted and I have a hot works permit or not, should my employers insurance cover me for injury,death,loss of work, or should I have my own insurance.
can you get insurance for hot works or not?
i have wondered about this for a while, I have a family now, so if for some reason the worst scenario happens,what happens? What can I or my employer do to cover for this?
can any1 enlighten me

 

[dingledong]

blind paul how do i do my live testing ?
though thinking about it the next report i do i can put cant test because fuse board live
hmmm should cut a good hour of my testing time

 

[Knobhead]

We’ll have to agree to disagree Paul. I was brought up with open boards and have no qualms about working on them.

 

[netblindpaul]

blind paul how do i do my live testing ?
though thinking about it the next report i do i can put cant test because fuse board live
hmmm should cut a good hour of my testing time

It seems that you have fallen into the muppet category that considers live testing as live working, as I have said there is a HUGE difference.
Live testing, is NOT, live working, if you can't see and understand that, go get a job in Tesco it will be safer for everyone.

 

[Silly Sausage]

regulations implemented by people who have never done the job or were so crap at it they took a h&s position

Hahaha...how's it go, "Those who are crap at their jobs get promoted 'up' to management"

 

[benji]

In certain respects i,am glad i retired after 50yr but i still miss it ,i used to look at a job/task and work out the pros & cons, if it could be done safely then do it if youve have doubts don,t do it get a second opinion .

 

[nickblake]

All I will say on the matter is if your working live testing or live work dont become complacent , its then you make the mistake and that could cost you your life , or you end up with a hair do like mine !!!!

 

[pete.willerton]

All I will say on the matter is if your working live testing or live work dont become complacent , its then you make the mistake and that could cost you your life , or you end up with a hair do like mine !!!!

And that's what exactly happened at my work a complacent mistake..

And it sparked a knee jerk reaction and placed a no live testing rule...
Or testing using PPE eg 1000v gloves, apron, face shield and rubber Matt.
Along with other procedures.

 

[Silly Sausage]

Dont be stupid tony, obviously you don't touch the live parts, but circumstances change all the time you might be unlucky one day, something may push you into the board, there may be a loud Bang somewhere else that causes you to jump, anything can happen at any moment
that kind of answer is the kind i expect of the fat f*** telling me to just do it it will be ok it's fine, then he walks into the ladder and you fall into the panel board oops sorry mate, yours kids won't have a dad this Christmas
to all you fat f**** out there with that attitude, go work for the council

Well if you're dumb enough to work Live without barriers and signage etc in place, you deserve what you get!
There are plenty of systems in place to reduce the risks...GS38, Permit to Work, etc etc...
The Regulations are quite clear on this subject!

 

[Dcf]

In certain respects i,am glad i retired after 50yr but i still miss it ,i used to look at a job/task and work out the pros & cons, if it could be done safely then do it if youve have doubts don,t do it get a second opinion .

Agree with this.
the op raised an interesting point on who would get blamed if it went wrong
but we are electricians are we not?
would I climb into a live panel board chamber and connect a cable onto bus bars? eh no.
would I connect a cable into a live 3 phase distribution board ? yes
Assess the risks I would say

 

[Knobhead]

How do you think we test on 11KV. Non of that lot is going to save you if it goes wrong.

 

[Lucien Nunes]

The OP asked mainly about insurance, whether he would be covered in the event of an accident, not whether it's actually safe, sensible or legal to work live. No matter how much you've paid for the policy, if there is the smallest doubt about your live work method and whether it is appropriate or valid in the circumstances, you can bet you won't be covered. In any case, if you calculate that the risk is high enough to warrant a special insurance policy, it's probably too high to be doing the work.

 

[High Tower]

How do you think we test on 11KV. Non of that lot is going to save you if it goes wrong.

Lick your finger?

 

[Silly Sausage]

How do you think we test on 11KV.

*removed* I'll leave that to you Real Men!

 

[richy3333]

If you have signed something somewhere that gets the employer out of liability then your screwed if you die

No you're not. Thats utter rubbish. You cannot contract out of death or bodily injury. End of.

 

[guest119]

It seems that you have fallen into the muppet category that considers live testing as live working, as I have said there is a HUGE difference.
Live testing, is NOT, live working, if you can't see and understand that, go get a job in Tesco it will be safer for everyone.

Are you and Glenn on commission for all these people you send to Tesco? :teeth_smile:

Boydy

 

[shanky887614]

No you're not. Thats utter rubbish. You cannot contract out of death or bodily injury. End of.

Boss goes to jail reguardless because as your employer he has a duty of care

 

[Hawkmoon]

Boss goes to jail reguardless because as your employer he has a duty of care

An employer (boss) may not even be an electrician - it is the competent electrician's responsibility to risk assess the proposed work and advise if it is safe to proceed.

The employer would have to be proven to be negligent in some way to be prosecuted.

 

[Bobster]

How do you think we test on 11KV. Non of that lot is going to save you if it goes wrong.

With an ammeter on an insulated stick.

 

[Engineer54]

I think there are too many views given by those that have never worked in heavy industry....
No idea how things are now in the UK, but i can assure you, live working was part and parcel of being an electrician when i worked within the industrial sector. And in those day's the company employed registered safety officers (24 hr cover) too.

Shutting down production ovens that took 10 hours to reach operating temperature and other plant with long preparation/start-up times was an absolute non starter when i was working in that sector, and i can't see that would be changing much now!!

 

[Pete999]

An employer (boss) may not even be an electrician - it is the competent electrician's responsibility to risk assess the proposed work and advise if it is safe to proceed.

The employer would have to be proven to be negligent in some way to be prosecuted.

Regardless of what the "Bosses" qualification/trade are, he or she bears the ultimate responsibility for your H&S at your place of work.
A clear H&S policy must be in place, as will Safe Systems of Work, risk assessments, permits to work etc, if you work live on your own initiative then its you that gets injured, but the "boss" will ultimately bear the full brunt of the HSE and could, depending of the severity of injuries sustained, be imprisoned.
Book em Danno murder 1

 

[D Skelton]

I think there are too many views given by those that have never worked in heavy industry....
No idea how things are now in the UK, but i can assure you, live working was part and parcel of being an electrician when i worked within the industrial sector. And in those day's the company employed registered safety officers (24 hr cover) too.

Shutting down production ovens that took 10 hours to reach operating temperature and other plant with long preparation/start-up times was an absolute non starter when i was working in that sector, and i can't see that would be changing much now!!

The law is the law regardless of what industry you're in. If you'd died whilst working live just because the boss didn't want to shut production down for ten hours then the boss would have been up for corporate manslaughter end of. Are you saying your life was only worth 10 hours worth of company revenue?! Seems like you aint woth much then! lol

There is no price on life! working live is illegal in 99.99% of cases, end of! If you do it (and yes, I'm a hypocrite here because I do [normally because if I didn't, the job would only go to someone else who is prepared to]) then on your head be it, coz your insurance sure as hell won't be paying your widow a penny!

I must point out however that I would never ever ever ask someone else to work live for me. If I want to risk killing myself in pursuit of my own monetary gain then that's my lookout, but I am not willing to be responsible for someone else dying as a result of my poor decision making.

 

[ipf]

Like me, wouldn't say a massive hypocryte though. At least, not if you are able to assess the situation and work with your head and a bucket full of common sense.

 

[Guest111]

The law is the law regardless of what industry you're in. If you'd died whilst working live just because the boss didn't want to shut production down for ten hours then the boss would have been up for corporate manslaughter end of. Are you saying your life was only worth 10 hours worth of company revenue?! Seems like you aint woth much then! lol

There is no price on life! working live is illegal in 99.99% of cases, end of! If you do it (and yes, I'm a hypocrite here because I do) then on your head be it, coz your insurance sure as hell won't be paying your widow a penny!

I must point out however that I would never ever ever ask someone else to work live for me. If I want to kill myself that's my lookout, but I am not willing to be responsible for someone else dying as a result of my poor decision making.

most of us old hands have and will work live on occasions,as you say you just don't ask someone else to do it.A case of do as I say not as I do.

 

[pepparz]

I think there are too many views given by those that have never worked in heavy industry....
No idea how things are now in the UK, but i can assure you, live working was part and parcel of being an electrician when i worked within the industrial sector. And in those day's the company employed registered safety officers (24 hr cover) too.

Shutting down production ovens that took 10 hours to reach operating temperature and other plant with long preparation/start-up times was an absolute non starter when i was working in that sector, and i can't see that would be changing much now!!

ok, working live is alright if ur employer says "u cant turn that off, production will stop and weve got orders to get out" hmm.
and this off the worlds greatest BUT not the safest engineer.
fill ur boots.

 

[pepparz]

just ask urself one question, whats more important, ur life or company profit!!!

 

[Engineer54]

I'm stating the facts from actual experience, as i said, no idea about what goes on now, but live working WAS part and parcel of being an electrician in my industrial working days. I'm not saying that every precaution wasn't in place before any such work was undertaken, ...it was!!

In all the time i was with that company and it was a BIG company, i never heard of a single incident of injury or death of electrical crews live working across the 7 factories on that site, or from the any of the other plants in the UK. Considering that live working was being carried out routinely on a weekly if not daily basis, something must of changed !! lol!! Oh and the same was going on in plants in Germany and Belgium. I know because i was seconded to both plants on more than a few occasions...

Then again Industrial training and facilities was first class in those days, nothing like the slap dash, make-up and make do it seems to be today in the UK....

 

[pepparz]

is it hot in here,hahaha.

 

[pepparz]

ok say ur working live with covers off and the fire alarm goes off,what now!

 

[D Skelton]

just ask urself one question, whats more important, ur life or company profit!!!

You are 100% right, no one can disagree with your law obiding opinion, however you need company profit to put food on the table. In a utopian society no one would ever work live, especially no employee! But needs must sometimes.

 

[telectrix]

easy one. pull the fire alarm fuse and carry on.