American conduit benders

[boogaloo]

Hello, as an electrician who frequently works in the United States as well as the UK, I was wondering why UK electricians don't adopt the US style conduit bender as shown below -
US UK

This style of bender comes in 3 sizes - 1/2 inch, 3/4 inch and 1 inch The 1 1/4 inch (32mm) is slightly different. This type of bender could easily be used to bend 20mm and 25mm conduit. It costs about the equivalent of 20-25 pounds for a complete handle and bend former, which is nothing, compared to the 500 pounds + cost of its UK counterpart.
It has a lot of things going for it -

1. 1000 + % Cheaper
2. Takes up 1,000 + % less room in the van.
3. Is 1000 + % Lighter
4. Gives the same amount of accuracy
5. Is easier to rework the conduit if needed , little tweaks and kicks are easier
6. Can be used to vice conduit with for cutting (Not in the manufacturers handbook but common practice
7. Easier to transport around site and can be used in smaller areas ie. attics, crawl spaces

I understand that the UK benders have a vice attachment too. The US bender does not. Is this the only thing stopping it from being adopted in the UK. My journeyman when I was an apprentice, remembers using a hickey to bend conduit was common practice which is not unsimilar to the US bender. Why did the UK electricians decide that it was better to carry around a 40lb 4 legged beast than develop the hickey to what the US electricians now have.
Having used both types of benders, there are many others, the triple nickel being my favourite, the US conduit is a far more user friendly and alltogether superior tool than the standard UK bender.
Thoughts on this would be appreciated.
Thanks for reading

 

[pennywise]

So how do the guys in US thread with no vice?

 

[johnboy6083]

do you have to carry a pipe vice around for threading though? if you have to carry around a heavy pipe vice anyway, then you might as well incorporate a bender into it, which i think is the reasoning behind the british design.

pennywise beat me to it!

 

[boogaloo]

Hello, as an electrician who frequently works in the United States as well as the UK, I was wondering why UK electricians don't adopt the US style conduit bender as shown below -
View attachment 3517 US View attachment 3518 UK

This style of bender comes in 3 sizes - 1/2 inch, 3/4 inch and 1 inch The 1 1/4 inch (32mm) is slightly different. This type of bender could easily be used to bend 20mm and 25mm conduit. It costs about the equivalent of 20-25 pounds for a complete handle and bend former, which is nothing, compared to the 500 pounds + cost of its UK counterpart.
It has a lot of things going for it -

1. 1000 + % Cheaper
2. Takes up 1,000 + % less room in the van.
3. Is 1000 + % Lighter
4. Gives the same amount of accuracy
5. Is easier to rework the conduit if needed , little tweaks and kicks are easier
6. Can be used to vice conduit with for cutting (Not in the manufacturers handbook but common practice
7. Easier to transport around site and can be used in smaller areas ie. attics, crawl spaces

I understand that the UK benders have a vice attachment too. The US bender does not. Is this the only thing stopping it from being adopted in the UK. My journeyman when I was an apprentice, remembers using a hickey to bend conduit was common practice which is not unsimilar to the US bender. Why did the UK electricians decide that it was better to carry around a 40lb 4 legged beast than develop the hickey to what the US electricians now have.
Having used both types of benders, there are many others, the triple nickel being my favourite, the US conduit is a far more user friendly and alltogether superior tool than the standard UK bender. I am British.
Thoughts on this would be appreciated.
Thanks for reading

 

[ringer]

I was looking for a 'US-style' conduit bender a little while ago, thinking they would be relatively cheap because I only do a little bit of conduit work, but could not find one in the uk. Didn't look terribly hard, but got nothing on searches, just the expensive ones.

 

[pennywise]

do you have to carry a pipe vice around for threading though? if you have to carry around a heavy pipe vice anyway, then you might as well incorporate a bender into it, which i think is the reasoning behind the british design.

pennywise beat me to it!

Great minds think alike, have a gander on Youtube there are plenty of vids showing people using the US version some of the attempts are hilarious

 

[Adam W]

I think plumbers use something similar to the US style conduit bender.
I would imagine the reason sparks use massive heavy bending machines is because they are capable of exerting greater pressure on the tube, which may not be necessary when working copper as it is softer.

Having never used American imperial sized tube I couldn't comment on the quality, but it would make sense if it were lighter grade, hence only needing a plumbers style bender.

 

[ian.settle1]

How thick is the wall on American conduit as the american bender in my opinion would not touch UK conduit

 

[Adam W]

I think plumbers use something similar in the UK.
I would guess the reason they can use a smaller bender is because copper is a lot softer than steel - matey in this guide is using a bending spring and his actual knee to bend copper pipe, as you would with pvc tube.

Having never used American imperial sized conduit I couldn't comment on it's quality but I would guess it's softer and easier to bend than the stuff we get here.

 

[Adam W]

Hang on a sec... Did you start this topic twice?

 

[Deleted member 26818]

My understanding is that this is for use with Aluminium tubing.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

I believe it's aluminium.

 

[malcolmsanford]

We've had conduit benders for years in the industry, you cut a piece 4" x 4" to about as long as your waist, at an end you drill a 25mm^ at a 45 angle at other end a 32mm^ at same angle and away you co, we call them "Hicky Blocks" but sure they are called many things

 

[Sparky Ninja]

When I started my old boss made me do some bends the way he used to, bending tube on trees and drains.

 

[Marvo]

I haven't seen a spec calling for threaded steel conduit for several years and even then it was the old government specs for navy buildings and parliament in Cape Town etc.

If steel conduit is required for some reason we use the knock together Bosal stuff. You can bend this on the floor using your foot and the 'American' style bender shown above but they also supply a range of prefabricated bends etc and no threading is needed.

I'm not a big fan of the steel conduit installations. Being in a coastal area, after a few years the internal corrosion in the conduit makes it nearly impossible to pull new wires through and to make even small alterations means an extra van full of equipment to bend and thread.

Is the threaded steel conduit still standard installation in the UK?

 

[Engineer54]

The conduit the Yanks use mostly is EMT (electrical metalic tube) No threading on this type of conduit, as it's similar to our old slip conduit where connections rely on ''machine screw'' couplings etc. The installations in this type of conduit look terrible to say the least. The conduit system that is of the screwed type in the States, is called RST (Ridged Steel tubing) which is very similar to our own conduit. The electricians will normally have a motorised threading machine when installing RST. Which i might add is a dammed sight heavier to carry about than the UK style of bending/vice set-up!!! The other thing that no-one has mentioned is that the Yanks go by internal diamentions and the rest of the world use external diamentions of conduit. So i'm not sure that the Yank pipe benders formers will be suitable for the UKs metric sizes...

Yes, .....threaded steel conduit still considered standard installation in the UK!!!

 

[ian.settle1]

The conduit the Yanks use mostly is EMT (electrical metalic tube) No threading on this type of conduit, as it's similar to our old slip conduit where connections rely on ''machine screw'' couplings etc. The installations in this type of conduit look terrible to say the least. The conduit system that is of the screwed type in the States, is called RST (Ridged Steel tubing) which is very similar to our own conduit. The electricians will normally have a motorised threading machine when installing RST. Which i might add is a dammed sight heavier to carry about than the UK style of bending/vice set-up!!! The other thing that no-one has mentioned is that the Yanks go by internal diamentions and the rest of the world use external diamentions of conduit. So i'm not sure that the Yank pipe benders formers will be suitable for the UKs metric sizes...

Yes, .....threaded steel conduit still considered standard installation in the UK!!!

Yanks have to be totally different to everyone else and they think everyone should change to their way of thinking.

 

[Engineer54]

Yep, ....Pretty much like them hanging on for dear life with there AWG!!! Even the Canadians use metric sized wiring and cables these days, along with those other countries that are, or have been influenced by the Yanks electrical NEC code. ...The Septic's are gonna have to change sooner or later...lol!!

 

[malcolmsanford]

3/.029 = 1.5 mm^ 7/.029 = 2.5 mm^ 7/.044 v= 6.0 mm^ 19/.052 = 25.0 mm^ Etc etc

Did have a certain charm to them though

 

[ian.settle1]

Yep, ....Pretty much like them hanging on for dear life with there AWG!!! Even the Canadians use metric sized wiring and cables these days, along with those other countries that are, or have been influenced by the Yanks electrical NEC code. ...The Septic's are gonna have to change sooner or later...lol!!

It'a Sceptics not Septics

 

[RogertheBodger]

American "Thinwall" conduit is far lighter than an equivalent English conduit, the U.S. bender would make bending the U.K. stuff very difficult.

 

[Engineer54]

As far as i can remember, there isn't that much of a difference in pipe thickness between standard UK conduit and the Yank EMT. Though the seam is clearly visible on the EMT. I would say that the Yank RST conduit is comparable in thickness to UKs heavy gauge conduit. All are made of steel by the way, but you can get Ally EMT in the states. Also, all there conduit is of the galvanised type, sprayed zinc for EMT and hot dipped for the RST.

One thing i'll mention, they tend to use knockout type boxes in there conduit installations which make them look pretty amateurish to the UK electricians eye, but then most Yank electrical fixtures and fittings tend to be very basic. They do have and use cast type conduit boxes, but they tend to only use in high spec situations.

 

[Engineer54]

It'a Sceptics not Septics

I always thought it was ''Septic Tank'' .....Yank!!! lol!!!

 

[telectrix]

I always thought it was ''Septic Tank'' .....Yank!!! lol!!!

it is.on this occasion ian is incorrect. septic tank, as in full of ****

 

[boogaloo]

The conduit used in the States, which is made of steel

Conduit - What Is Intermediate Metal Conduit (IMC) - Electrical Conduit,

comes in 3 commonly used grades. EMT (Standard grade slightly thinner than UK conduit), IMC (The same thickness as UK conduit) and Rigid which is thicker. The hand bender easily bends 1/2 inch and 3/4 inch and with a bit of an effort 1 inch. This could easily be used in the UK conduit sizes 20mm and 25mm. The handle you pull on a UK bender is shorter, which would give it less leverage than the US hand bender. If you were struggling to get it started, some people, generally of the fairer sex, put a sleeving over the handle to make it longer. Incidentally,as a side note, having worked as a union electrician in the US and UK there are 3-4 times as many women electricians over in the US.

 

[jaresquire]

Bet they're big birds tho!

 

[Engineer54]

boogaloo,

I bet you notice the difference when your back in the UK, when it comes to testing and inspection an installation??
By the way, are the Yanks still using there multi branch circuits utilising a common neutral conductor??

 

[benji]

more info on wheatland conduit site, the thick wall is about the same as our steam pipe( we had to use hydrolic benders & screwing machines as we were using 2in & 4in tube )

 

[boogaloo]

Yes, they use a common neutral for 3 lighting circuits and the socket circuits are always radial circuits using the same neutral for 3 circuits. As long as the 3 circuits are different phases it is one neutral for the bunch.

 

[boogaloo]

Usually, and fugly too. I hope the PC police aren't watching. If so, then I'm a fat ugly bugger too. I am anyway.

 

[Engineer54]

Hmmmmm..... I would have thought that they would have ditched that archaic wiring system by now. I think they used a triple pole breakers for these circuits too as i remember.

Had a project where they wanted to use that multi branch system, ....but i insisted that seperate neutrals were to be pulled in for each circuit. I could see some serious problems arising if ever one of those neutrals ever got broken!!!!

 

[ian.settle1]

I always thought it was ''Septic Tank'' .....Yank!!! lol!!!

Ham shanks = Yanks

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Canadians are often refered to frozen septic tanks.

 

[Engineer54]

Not according to the Cockney Slang that i know!! ...lol!!! Can't say i've heard that term used before, not around London anyway!! Maybe it's a Liverpoodlian Slang term ..lol!!