Annoying simple circuit

[Ldm]

hi ladies and gents

I have opened a ring final circuit to add 3 sockets. All was goin well till I powered it up and it keeps tripping. I have tested and IR comes back fine. continuity also fine, all test readings are fine. the circuit has 9 sockets and has a 32 type c rcbo. any other info needed please ask.

sorry for the short message but my keyboard is dying.

thank you

 

[telectrix]

does it trip with nothing plugged in? if it requires a load to make it trip, you may have a N-E reversal at a socket.

edit: it would help if you told us your level of expertise.

 

[Pete999]

hi ladies and gents

I have opened a ring final circuit to add 3 sockets. All was goin well till I powered it up and it keeps tripping. I have tested and IR comes back fine. continuity also fine, all test readings are fine. the circuit has 9 sockets and has a 32 type c rcbo. any other info needed please ask.

sorry for the short message but my keyboard is dying.

thank you

You must have wired it wrong, check all the new connections

 

[Simonslimline]

does it trip with nothing plugged in? if it requires a load to make it trip, you may have a N-E reversal at a socket.

edit: it would help if you told us your level of expertise.

Trainee according to the profile.

 

[mydigitalhome]

As above, dead testing first, continuity check should have picked it up.

 

[Plonker 3]

Is the RCBO existing or a new one that you have installed?

 

[shanky887614]

check an old socket and the new ones.

the terminals might be in a different place.

you wont pick it up with end to end testing if you connected it up wrong
and this would cause it to trip when you plug something into a new socket

 

[Plonker 3]

you wont pick it up with end to end testing if you connected it up wrong
and this would cause it to trip when you plug something into a new socket

No, but a R1+R2 test will pick it up.

 

[shanky887614]

No, but a R1+R2 test will pick it up.

how?

if he has put both browns in N both blues in E and all the cpcs in L

it wont come up on end to end if there is nothing plugged into socket.

the figure of 8 R1+R2 only checks the resistance not if the cables are in the right terminal in the socket

 

[1stfix2ndfix]

This is where my little socket tester would come in handy

 

[Simonslimline]

This is where my little socket tester would come in handy

The one i have will not detect a neutral & earth reversal.

 

[Simonslimline]

how?

if he has put both browns in N both blues in E and all the cpcs in L

it wont come up on end to end if there is nothing plugged into socket.

the figure of 8 R1+R2 only checks the resistance not if the cables are in the right terminal in the socket

Are you sure about that!

 

[happysteve]

how?

if he has put both browns in N both blues in E and all the cpcs in L

it wont come up on end to end if there is nothing plugged into socket.

the figure of 8 R1+R2 only checks the resistance not if the cables are in the right terminal in the socket

I guess it depends on whether you do R1+R2 from the front of the socket (in which case you will spot an error) or the back of the socket (in which case, if you're going by wire colour, you won't).

Maybe this points towards why it's a good idea to do it from the front...

(Trainee )

 

[shanky887614]

Are you sure about that!

yes when you do the test at the board.

obviously it would be obvious if testing at each socket

most firms only check at the board though

 

[Simonslimline]

yes when you do the test at the board.

obviously it would be obvious if testing at each socket

I thought the whole point of the test is to check all the outlets connected. The tests will also pick up a ring within a ring.

 

[Simonslimline]

yes when you do the test at the board.

obviously it would be obvious if testing at each socket

most firms only check at the board though

How do you know this out of interest? Not exactly proper practice IMO.

 

[shanky887614]

How do you know this out of interest? Not exactly proper practice IMO. [emoji2]

ive tagged along with several firms in the past and been on building sites etc where they dont bother.

on a side note, have you guys seen demma installs, to say there a birds nest is an understatement

brand new bms installs with hundreds of cables tywrapped to ceiling grid etc with no support, i would feel embarrassed installing it but the clients dont mind it because they dont have to pay them for containment!!!!

 

[Simonslimline]

ive tagged along with several firms in the past and been on building sites etc where they dont bother.

Well its not the way i was taught at college. We always did the full test with my old company.

 

[shanky887614]

Well its not the way i was taught at college. We always did the full test with my old company.

i only did the full range of tests once or twice at college, during exams

 

[davesparks]

The correct way to test a ring final circuit includes the end to end tests, the figure of right L to N and figure of eight L to E.
Both figure of eight tests should include readings taken at all points, or as many as realistically practical depending on whether it is IV or periodic testing.

 

[Octopus]

Are you 100% sure you identified the correct neutrals?

 

[Tuttle]

The one i have will not detect a neutral & earth reversal.

I don't think any of them detect a neutral & earth reversal

 

[telectrix]

I don't think any of them detect a neutral & earth reversal

no but henry can. he runs perfectly on L-E till some silly tw4t fits a RCD.

 

[Ldm]

does it trip with nothing plugged in? if it requires a load to make it trip, you may have a N-E reversal at a socket.

edit: it would help if you told us your level of expertise.

No no load applied. I have a socket tester that tells me reversals. But it won't stay on. I have checked all connections and they are correct and tight.

It it did stay on for about 5 hours today (friend put it on) then it tripped and won't go back on!!

 

[Ldm]

Is the RCBO existing or a new one that you have installed?

The RCBO is an existing one. I have tried another RCBO (also existing) and same problem

 

[Knobhead]

I’ll give the OP the same advice I give all Electrical Trainee’s. Employ a qualified electrician to get your arse out of the fire.

The qualified electrician’s fees should come out of your own pocket (not the customers) just to remind you that you can’t learn this trade in a few weeks.

Hope that helps!

 

[trev]

This is where my little socket tester would come in handy

Sorry mate but those things are little more than toys. There is no substitute for a calibrated MFT in the hands of a skilled person and the application of the proper set of tests from start to finish in the correct order.

 

[Ldm]

I’ll give the OP the same advice I give all Electrical Trainee’s. Employ a qualified electrician to get your arse out of the fire.

The qualified electrician’s fees should come out of your own pocket (not the customers) just to remind you that you can’t learn this trade in a few weeks.

Hope that helps!

That doesn't help no!
im ex army don't have the luxury of doing a full apprenticeship due to current commitments. After leaving I did a short course with the army loved it so much I want to do it for a living. So paying out my own pocket I'm studying the 2365 level 2 and 3. I have 17th edition, part P, solar PV design and installation, PAT testing (sitting test in a few days) and my NICEIC test coming up. So yes being experienced and qualified would be nice. But experience comes in time. But as I can't find someone to show me and help me gain the valuable experience. I'm trying on my own. So thank you for your input but advice and guidence is what I'm after not paying someone to do it for me.

 

[tazz]

Very shocked at this post.....basic testing, if an insulation test, and a r1/r2 test shows clear...I would be very suprised

 

[DPG]

I don't think the OP will be back, but if he does:

Are you a trainee or fully qualified? If you are a trainee how come you're doing this work? Daz

 

[Pete999]

I don't think the OP will be back, but if he does:

Are you a trainee or fully qualified? If you are a trainee how come you're doing this work? Daz

Because his boss is maybe a Electrical Trainee and can't do it himself, just a thought

 

[Octopus]

I don't think the OP will be back, but if he does:

Are you a trainee or fully qualified? If you are a trainee how come you're doing this work? Daz

He's just been reading this thread so fingers crossed he fill fill in the "gaps" and then maybe our guidance can be more productive!

 

[Ldm]

I have been replying to people on here but apparently my internet don't want to work.

I am a trainee yes. Domestic installer but training to better myself (currently 2365 level 2 and 3)

all tests did come back as fine and a visual inspection of all sockets shows correct connections. Will start again tomorrow. Thank you to those who helped.

 

[tazz]

ok well lets move on from here, an r1/r2 will also prove correct polarity as well as contiunity , a 500v insulation test will show any problems with damage cables. So next what were your results.?

 

[mache]

This is where my little socket tester would come in handy

I see a problem with that considering the circuit keeps tripping when it's energised ???

 

[dazza1981]

how?

if he has put both browns in N both blues in E and all the cpcs in L

it wont come up on end to end if there is nothing plugged into socket.

the figure of 8 R1+R2 only checks the resistance not if the cables are in the right terminal in the socket

I think you are talking Rollocks !!!!

 

[Sparkie30]

I think you are talking Rollocks !!!!

Do you think or do you know it ? elaborate please

 

[dazza1981]

Do you think or do you know it ? elaborate please

I know it...... what do you want me to elaborate on exactly ?????

 

[Sparkie30]

I know it...... what do you want me to elaborate on exactly ?????

you said to him that he is talking rollocks about what he was saying. look at post 36

 

[trev]

you said to him that he is talking rollocks about what he was saying. look at post 36

Daz was right. Shanky was talking rollocks. Which bit are you disputing?

 

[dazza1981]

you said to him that he is talking rollocks about what he was saying. look at post 36

I know what i wrote..... and yes he is talking Rollocks.
I will ask again... what do you want me to elaborate on exactly or do you not understand how to do an R1 + R2 test and the reasons why we do it ????

 

[dazza1981]

Daz was right. Shanky was talking rollocks. Which bit are you disputing?

Evening Trev.... thanks mate and hope your keeping well

 

[trev]

Fine thanks mate. I'm struggling to see what Sparkie30's point is, the full series of tests in their correct order will identify any incorrect terminations as we all know. I think some are forgetting that the result of one test is a by product of another

 

[dazza1981]

Fine thanks mate. I'm struggling to see what Sparkie30's point is, the full series of tests in their correct order will identify any incorrect terminations as we all know. I think some are forgetting that the result of one test is a by product of another

I agree fully... also shanky is a bright lad and generally right but i think confused himself here. I also want to know what sparkie30 point is ??

 

[shanky887614]

I agree fully... also shanky is a bright lad and generally right but i think confused himself here. I also want to know what sparkie30 point is ??

confused? doing R1+R2 end to end tests at ccu wont show up if there in the wrong terminal in field with nothing plugged in

if i was doing r1+r2 in the field then of course it would show up but what most people use a quick R1+R2 for is to check continuity of the ring.

 

[trev]

confused? doing R1+R2 end to end tests at ccu wont show up if there in the wrong terminal in field with nothing plugged in

if i was doing r1+r2 in the field then of course it would show up but what most people use a quick R1+R2 for is to check continuity of the ring.

Shanky the result you're on about is a result you get from the polarity test on an RCF. Now think about how that's done mate.
You're missing out a very important step.

 

[Sparkie30]

my point is if you at socket wired neutrals on earth and earths on neutral. when doing tests on the board not socket. your tester will not tell you that you wired a socket wrong. from my understanding thats what shanky said.

when doing continuity, you checking the resistance of conductors and making sure connected inline

 

[dazza1981]

confused? doing R1+R2 end to end tests at ccu wont show up if there in the wrong terminal in field with nothing plugged in

if i was doing r1+r2 in the field then of course it would show up but what most people use a quick R1+R2 for is to check continuity of the ring.

Yes shanky confused..... have a think !!!

 

[shanky887614]

Yes shanky confused..... have a think !!!

what im saying is if the right cores are together there just in the wrong terminals in the back of say a 2gang socket

then the fault would only apear when something is plugged in

because there wouldnt be a dead short between the cores or anything and your readings would be as expected

 

[trev]

my point is if you at socket wired neutrals on earth and earths on neutral. when doing tests on the board not socket. your tester will not tell you that you wired a socket wrong. from my understanding thats what shanky said.

when doing continuity, you checking the resistance of conductors and making sure connected inline

How and why do you carry out a polarity test on a ring?
The tests you're describing are a very small part of the testing process and doing only these tests means that you have not tested the circuit properly.