Discuss Armoured Cable Question. in the DIY Electrical Advice area at ElectriciansForums.net
I asked for a Report and only received this
I asked for Electrical Test Reports for two recently installed Consumer Units. I paid £500 reduced from £900 but the Reports were not received despite many written and verbal requests. The Electrician has since refused to oproivide Reports say they would be Failure Certificates and we are worried and want to know what is wrong. The quote I put on the forum means nothing to us as home owners. We have no proof he is qualified but we must believe that he is. I wrote to the NICEIC and to Napit but neither have any records. I was not able to provide an address for him. I am asking an NICEIC Electriian to do the Test Reports and if they Fail we must know and understand the reasons so we can carry out any safety works needed, if any.
I am a home owner and not an electrician and I do not understand. I am commissioning a further Test by an NICEIC Registered Electrician.
I may be using the wrong terminology but the Electrician we commissioned knew exactly what we wanted. He simply wrote:
No you are fine but this individuals statement is vague it could mean a few things.
Thank you and I agree. My wife and I simply want to do anything to make our wiring safe, if it is not. I challenged him but I do not have the technical skills. I suggested that no Wholesaler or Trader or Retailer would sell a non compliant armoured cable and I am blanked. I thought it may be unlawful but I am not in my comfort zone not being an electrician. It is also hard to believe an experienced and qualified electrician would use a non-compliant cable.
Thank you for taking the time on a Sunday evening to assist me. If it is necessary I will instruct the replacement of this armoured cable although it will be a big job. Our safety is paramount of course.
Or something was left connected during the test, or it could just be a downright lie to get more money under false pretences from the OP.
Cable may not need replacing just wait for the second electrician. I suspect the reading they have stated is a high earth fault loop impedance (Zs) due to a breakdown of conductor continuity, this is an assumption though. If this is the case it may be possible to correct this.
Don't worry about the time and day people will respond at all hours.
There is a saying that those that can't do it, teach although I do know a few good lads that went into teaching because they got fed up of crawling round sites in all the muck
Unfortunately not
This is relaxation time beer in one hand one finger typing with the other
Unfortunately not I live just off J24 of the M6 and the furthest south I get these days with work is Shropshire
I also have a beer in hand. You have helped me a lot. I hope I can now ask reasonably intelligent questions about this armoured cable and the alleged reading. What if I find it is not true! I am trying to give this man the benefit of my doubts but I am struggling.
Just to try and get some perspective on this prior to the testing was this cable in service and operating normally if it was with the resistance figure quoted I'm thinking a decimal point may have been dropped or the MFT was setup incorrectly and gave a red cross in the display so was considered a fail by the tester
This is very helpful. I wonder if I can show these postings to my new Electrician. He is NICEIC Registered and he has been highly recommended. He is booked up in the early term but he will assist. The generous responses have been amazing and I am very grateful. I hope this will have a good and safe outcome.
I think this would suggest that the guy who condemned it got it wrong somewhere
With a decimal point missing in the figure quoted is my thinking
Good Morning Westward 10 - I wish to thank you and others you so helpfully gave up their time yesterday to respond. I will measure the armoured cable length this morning and try to identify the cable at the Oak Building Consumer end of the run (with it switched off having been made aware of the danger). I will take digital pictures I hope I can post. Of course I will advise on the outcome.
This is a duplicated posting by me this morning Ung: Good Morning - It is a far more serious issue this morning as I have examined the Consumer Unit this morning and located the main armoured cable. It is more like 20 metres end to end. I discovered by lying down and look up with a torch that there is an earth cable no more than 2 inches in length cut off and in mid air. The live and neutral go to the main fuse. No wonder he advised of a risk of death. The obvious question this poses is if this earth cable is earthed both at this end and the other end (it may be) then will the Test Reading give a safe result? The Electrician recommended running a new armoured cable end to end. This would have been a huge high cost job but if this ultimately must be done to make it safe this is what we will instruct. I have not checked the other end and I stress again I am not an electrician but a 74 year old very worried home owner.
Looks like it's tinned to me. That would be a first.
I also suspect a TT / Divorced earth situation, however I'm finding this picture confusing because... Red/Blue conductors would normally indicate an old cols 3c cable yet I see no yellow, and we've two brown lives in the box (B10 and B16) yet only one blue neutral??? We also seem to have three circuit cpc's into the bus bar for four circuit??
The Consumer Unit is not old and looks like new and there is no corrosion and no heat damage. I really appreciate the kind responses I am getting and possibly only from experienced electricians. I am an elderly home owner and not an electrician and I am trying to understand but this is difficult as I do not follow much of the technical advice. I was told the armoured cable was non compliant and the only reason given was the alleged reading of 371 ohms which means nothing to me. I was told it was dangerous so the reply is turned off. By visual examination I discovered, to my horror, that the earth wire coming from the armoured cable is cut short and in mid air. It is not connected to any one of many earth terminals. I simply wondered if the earth wire is connected if this was likely to produce a safe reading? The electrician was recommending the replacement of the armoured cable. This would be a huge job over a distance of about 20 metres running underground below a concrete floor and a concrete slab adjacent to the outbuilding. It is an awkward sloping site and the cost will be very high but if it is true that it must be replaced to make it safe this is what we will do. If wiring to cut earth cable into an earth terminal makes it safe this will take minutes and minimal cost. I have an NICEIC Registered Electrician visiting in the next week. I will advise on the outcome.
Does this help? The top of the armoured cable is behind the top plate so cannot be seen. The arth cable coming from the armoured cable is cut and can be seen in this picture. As I have stressed several times I am not an Electrician so I struggle with the technical responses so kindly given. I simply wonder if this is why the Electrician said the armoured cable was not compliant and should be replaced which would be at huge cost. I am hoping that once this earth cable is secured in one of many free earth clamps it will then be safe and a safe reading will be produced? Unfortunately the reported unsafe reading of 371 ohms means nothing to me. Questions have been raised about the condition of the consumer unit. It is metal clad and modern and to the untrained eye looks in new condition with no heat marks on any of the fuses as suggested. I hope this clarifies and helps. The good news is that are NICEIC Registered Electrician hopes to visit within a week and I can then report the outcome. Fingers crossed.
I agree it looks like a separate TT system. The missing yellow conductor is likely to be the conductor that has been cut back coming from the swa, and left disconnected (the "earth" that James is concerned about). Difficult to see but the missing blue could be terminated in the same terminal as the one shown, but hidden from view in the picture. There appear to be 5 cpc's a pair that appear to be part of a ring or possibly 2 radials also sharing the same breaker in one terminal, one terminated on its own and 2 that share another terminal.
I PULLED DOWN THE ARMOURED CABLE TO TAKE THESE PICTURES. I HOPE THIS HELPS ALL THE KIND PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN TRYING TO HELP ME. Our electrician will be attending in the coming days. The electrician who condemned this cable hoped to replace it and it would be a major job at very high cost. I am hoping our NICEIC Registered Electrician will clamp this loose earth wire and be able to report a safe reading. The other armoured cables got to an external motor, an automatic underground pump and to external lighting. There is only the one incoming supply cable as pictured. This may help those of you who have been trying to help me.
I promised to report the outcome. The new electrician was not NICEIC regitstered as I thought but he is NAPPIT Registered and was strongly recommended. Those who responded did not have the benefit og a physical inspection but the replies were for the most part very impressive and extremely helpful. There was nothing wrong with the armoured cable and no reading of 371 ohms was taken. I was not able to comment upon this alleged reading as I have no experience and I am not an Electrician. The recommendation was to install an external Earth Rod externally and close to the Consumer Unit. The recoomendation was to install 2 threated earth rods and each was 1.2 metres in length so they went nearly 2.4 metres into the ground. This may have been much deeper than absultely necessary but I was happy with the suggestion. The work required drilling a hole through a concrete slab path before hammering the rods deep into the ground. The first was hammered most of the way in and then the second was connected with the threaded joining piece then that was hammered into the ground. A wood block was used to protect the top of the second earth road. Finally an Earth Road Inspection Pit to comply with regulations. On completion of the work a Test Reading was taken and it produced a figure of 24.5 ohms. I was invited to watch the work being cvarried out. It took less than 1 hour and I am hugely relieved having been advised to replace an alleged defective armoured cable. I wish to thank the many who gave up theur valuable time freely and willingly in an effort to assist. There was some inspired thinking. The new electrician has been brilliant. His work is to a very high standard and we can feel safe.
I promised to report the outcome. The new electrician was not NICEIC regitstered as I thought but he is NAPPIT Registered and was strongly recommended. Those who responded did not have the benefit og a physical inspection but the replies were for the most part very impressive and extremely helpful. There was nothing wrong with the armoured cable and no reading of 371 ohms was taken. I was not able to comment upon this alleged reading as I have no experience and I am not an Electrician. The recommendation was to install an external Earth Rod externally and close to the Consumer Unit. The recoomendation was to install 2 threated earth rods and each was 1.2 metres in length so they went nearly 2.4 metres into the ground. This may have been much deeper than absultely necessary but I was happy with the suggestion. The work required drilling a hole through a concrete slab path before hammering the rods deep into the ground. The first was hammered most of the way in and then the second was connected with the threaded joining piece then that was hammered into the ground. A wood block was used to protect the top of the second earth road. Finally an Earth Road Inspection Pit to comply with regulations. On completion of the work a Test Reading was taken and it produced a figure of 24.5 ohms. I was invited to watch the work being cvarried out. It took less than 1 hour and I am hugely relieved having been advised to replace an alleged defective armoured cable. I wish to thank the many who gave up theur valuable time freely and willingly in an effort to assist. There was some inspired thinking. The new electrician has been brilliant. His work is to a very high standard and we can feel safe.
I promised to report the outcome. The new electrician was not NICEIC regitstered as I thought but he is NAPPIT Registered and was strongly recommended. Those who responded did not have the benefit og a physical inspection but the replies were for the most part very impressive and extremely helpful. There was nothing wrong with the armoured cable and no reading of 371 ohms was taken. I was not able to comment upon this alleged reading as I have no experience and I am not an Electrician. The recommendation was to install an external Earth Rod externally and close to the Consumer Unit. The recoomendation was to install 2 threated earth rods and each was 1.2 metres in length so they went nearly 2.4 metres into the ground. This may have been much deeper than absultely necessary but I was happy with the suggestion. The work required drilling a hole through a concrete slab path before hammering the rods deep into the ground. The first was hammered most of the way in and then the second was connected with the threaded joining piece then that was hammered into the ground. A wood block was used to protect the top of the second earth road. Finally an Earth Road Inspection Pit to comply with regulations. On completion of the work a Test Reading was taken and it produced a figure of 24.5 ohms. I was invited to watch the work being cvarried out. It took less than 1 hour and I am hugely relieved having been advised to replace an alleged defective armoured cable. I wish to thank the many who gave up theur valuable time freely and willingly in an effort to assist. There was some inspired thinking. The new electrician has been brilliant. His work is to a very high standard and we can feel safe.
I promised to report the outcome. The new electrician was not NICEIC regitstered as I thought but he is NAPPIT Registered and was strongly recommended. Those who responded did not have the benefit og a physical inspection but the replies were for the most part very impressive and extremely helpful. There was nothing wrong with the armoured cable and no reading of 371 ohms was taken. I was not able to comment upon this alleged reading as I have no experience and I am not an Electrician. The recommendation was to install an external Earth Rod externally and close to the Consumer Unit. The recoomendation was to install 2 threated earth rods and each was 1.2 metres in length so they went nearly 2.4 metres into the ground. This may have been much deeper than absultely necessary but I was happy with the suggestion. The work required drilling a hole through a concrete slab path before hammering the rods deep into the ground. The first was hammered most of the way in and then the second was connected with the threaded joining piece then that was hammered into the ground. A wood block was used to protect the top of the second earth road. Finally an Earth Road Inspection Pit to comply with regulations. On completion of the work a Test Reading was taken and it produced a figure of 24.5 ohms. I was invited to watch the work being cvarried out. It took less than 1 hour and I am hugely relieved having been advised to replace an alleged defective armoured cable. I wish to thank the many who gave up theur valuable time freely and willingly in an effort to assist. There was some inspired thinking. The new electrician has been brilliant. His work is to a very high standard and we can feel safe.
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