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I am trying to find the best angle (from the horizontal) at which to fit solar panels. Checking with installers is useless as they suggest every angle from horizontal to vertical. They will not be mounted on the house but on a 4M high retaining wall on the north side of the house and will point due south. Is the latitude I am at - 57.5 degrees best?
 
I am trying to find the best angle (from the horizontal) at which to fit solar panels. Checking with installers is useless as they suggest every angle from horizontal to vertical. They will not be mounted on the house but on a 4M high retaining wall on the north side of the house and will point due south. Is the latitude I am at - 57.5 degrees best?

A 35 degree angle will generate the most energy throughout the year and is the standard angle used for ground mounted mounting kit such as schuco etc.
 
I am trying to find the best angle (from the horizontal) at which to fit solar panels. Checking with installers is useless as they suggest every angle from horizontal to vertical. They will not be mounted on the house but on a 4M high retaining wall on the north side of the house and will point due south. Is the latitude I am at - 57.5 degrees best?

h**p://www.suncalc.net is a 2D website that will help give you an impression of the track of the sun, for your locality at different times of the year.

You wont be able to see the height of the sun at different times of the year -as it isn't in 3D
but you can get a good idea how the suns behaviour changes over time.

In winter it is lower in the sky and less intense, in summer it gets progressively higher and brighter.

Use this website along with frequent observations of your locality and you'll be able to build up a picture of the suns behaviour in your locality.

November to Early February are dead solar months in the northern hemisphere.

Mid spring to late summer is when the lions share of energy is generated.

Your panels need to be installed at an angle to optimise generation in these months when the sun is more intense and higher in the sky.

Solar City may be able to explain why 40 degrees is your optimum installation angle if you ask him nicely.
 
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If you're based at the equator or presumably within the tropics then the sun is going to be directly above you at certain parts of the year - when this happens, the panels would produce most on a horizontal plane. In practice, the further north/south you are based especially as you pass the tropics you will need to increase the angle of the mounting. The north tips of Scotland will benefit from 40 degrees due to the fact that the sun will spend most of the year lower in the sky than it would in the south of England where an angle of 36 degrees would be better.

I hope this makes sense. I'm bloody awful at explaining things.
 
At the summer solstice in June, the sun reaches an angle of 61.9 degrees at solar noon, in London. That's as high as it ever gets. At the winter solstice in December, it reaches its lowest angle, of 15.1 degrees.
 
Okay, from PV Sol calculations I get an optimum angle of 40 degrees at your latitute.

Sometimes I wonder whether maximum generation isn't the whole story, since I'd gladly accept 5-10% less generation per year if I could double the amount I can use in-house to trim my bills.

I've often thought about optimum angle and it depends on whether:

1. Maximum generation for maximum Feed-in-Tariff.

2. Maximum ability to make use in-house, with a bias towards more generation on cloudy days (when it's easy to use it all) and less on sunny days (when it's difficult to use it all).

3. Optimised for good generation in the all-too-dull winter when the low sun means peak power is only about 50% of potential, for about an hour a day.

#1 is around 35 degrees in my area - a little more "up north".
#2 would be shallower - perhaps around 20 degrees - in order to have the panels closer to facing a white sky when it's cloudy.
#3 would be steeper - perhaps around 60 degrees.
 
Rememerthe earth moves 'up and down' +- 23° 26′ 16″ it's only at the two equinoxes that your get the 90 degree angle at your latitude (if that makes sense) (that's why at 90-53 = 37 degrees elevation)

So to maiximise summer output it would be 'shallower' and to maximise winter output 'steeper' as FB has pointed out above.

As for the maths.... longer days, shorter days, plus that angle is at midday, as the sun rises at 0 degrees in the East and sets at 0 degrees inthe West :)
 
We're talking about quite small differences in output here, 35-ish degrees is fine. Mind you it's been so cloudy recently that the 3-8 degree inclination of the panels on my "solar pergola" has been performing well on pv ouput - my link here - you have to gamble on your assumptions (e.g. cloudiness) but remember that there are more important things to consider:

is your inverter well matched to your panels?
have you minimised shading?
given that the export tariff is "deemed" etc, are you better off producing enough to cover your households baseline energy at low generation times, rather than maximising your generation on an assumedly perfect summers day?

I like FB's post, maybe your best angle delivers less energy overall but delivers more useful energy all year round. (i.e. a shallower angle)
 
2. Maximum ability to make use in-house, with a bias towards more generation on cloudy days (when it's easy to use it all) and less on sunny days (when it's difficult to use it all).

I don't really understand this point. Why do you think that angling at 20 degrees will give more generation on cloudy days? This isn't something I've noticed when I carry out light readings.
 
I don't really understand this point. Why do you think that angling at 20 degrees will give more generation on cloudy days? This isn't something I've noticed when I carry out light readings.

When there is cloud cover, diffuse light is coming from the whole sky.
The more the panels have a direct facing to the light sky the better they can generate.
I've also noticed that my array's best days of generation are sunny mornings and white cloud or partly cloudy afternoons. The white cloud being slightly luminous and much brighter than a blue sky - somewhat reflecting the light around and benefitting my panels if the sun is too far round to shine directly on the panels.

I know someone with a peculiar arrangement of 2kW North and 2kW South (they've even had a solar installer come round and say "you've been mis-sold because you've got 'em on the wrong roof!") but their array is performing ridiculously above expectations due to about a 30 degree roof slope (maybe a little shallower - perhaps 25'), allowing those North-facing panels to point much more up to the sky on cloudy days which make up the majority of British weather.
Last I heard from them, about a week ago, they had gone through 2100kWh between mid-May and late-November (both the generation meter and inverter logs confirm this).
That's 2100kWh from a part-month of May &November, and full months of June to October, with a 2kW North + 2kW South array at 30deg. Their huge outperformance so far relative to expectations appears as if they'll get to around 3100-3200kWh total generation in their first year.
Performance has matched my 3.75kWp ESE array with 40degree slope.
Their inverter and panels same as mine.

Furthermore, they never have a really bad day, and never have a massive day (my panels are much more extreme from one day to another - tenfold variation from one day to the next can be seen sometimes from my array) - partly due to their split array, but partly due to those shallow panels pointing at the light sky even on days when there is no direct sun.
In summer, for example, I could get mid to high 20's kWh per day, but they never got above low-20's. However, on the many dull days they performed much better than me, with far fewer low generation days.
Also shallower angles tend to be better at catching some sun at any time it may appear, whereas my 40-degree angled panels give almost-unusably huge generation on sunny spring/summer mornings but very little in sunny afternoons nor on cloudy days as the panels face almost as much towards the dark landscape of the horizon rather than the sky.
 
I guess what I'm saying is that steep-angled panels are more dependent on direct sun at a complementary angle than shallow-angled panels which can better gather diffuse light from the cloudy sky.
 
Because of the angle of the sun in summer (53 degrees plus 26 degrees = 79 degrees) the math shows that a 15 degree North Facing Roof produces MORE TOTAL kWh output that a VERTICAL South facing Wall ......... Just run it through PV*Sol

15 Degrees North give an angle of incidence from panel to the Sun of 64 degrees
Vertical South facing gives an angle of incidence from panelof 21 degrees
 
Because of the angle of the sun in summer (53 degrees plus 26 degrees = 79 degrees) the math shows that a 15 degree North Facing Roof produces MORE TOTAL kWh output that a VERTICAL South facing Wall ......... Just run it through PV*Sol

15 Degrees North give an angle of incidence from panel to the Sun of 64 degrees
Vertical South facing gives an angle of incidence from panelof 21 degrees

One of the ten commandmens of solar, apparently, is "Thou shalt not ever install solar panels on any roof with a Northerly aspect anywhere in the UK".

Back on-topic:
My panels produce more on cloudy afternoons than on sunny ones - because often cloud is brighter than clear blue sky if the sun is too far behind the panels to shine on them.

Just as panels oriented towards the sun will tend to gather more, panels oriented towards the sky will tend to gather more when the whole sky is light cloud but no sun.
 
[MENTION=52061]Vegelen[/MENTION], it depends upon wether, as FB has been saying, you want maximum output / generation or maximum SELF useable output/generation. With 4kWp systems most people will be exporting during the summer, so there is the argument (ignoring Feed In Tariff payments) that to get the maximum self useable output, it should be optimised for winter....... when we reach grid parity, then optimising for winter may become more interesting. Having said all that, getting paid 43p to generate and 3.2p for 50% export, more than makes up for buying at 10p... AT THE MOMENT..
 
In winter the sun is very low in the sky.

Buildings and obstructions become important in affecting the amount of solar power generated.

Solar panels with very low orientations, don't generate much mid winter from diffuse light.

If these panels were inclined steeply, they would increase their generation potential, but it

also depends on where these systems are located, how high up are they, how affected are they by obstructions from nearby buildings etc.

People focus on how much their solar system generates, what angle is best to generate the highest or most consistent yearly output, but few consider what their properties background power consumption is during the night when they are asleep.

Night time power consumption makes up an important percentage of everyone's power bills.

Inefficient appliances on standby grab power relentlessly in the night when no one is looking.
 
Having said all that, getting paid 43p to generate and 3.2p for 50% export, more than makes up for buying at 10p... AT THE MOMENT..

At the old 40-odd pence FiT which some of us are fortunate enough to have, yes, it's worth going for maximum generation and not worry about in-house usage.

But if the FiT is 14.5p, electricity prices 12.5p and export tariff 0.5x4.5p (2.25p) the amount of in-house usage becomes a very significant factor.
 
FB is suggesting a 20 degree mounting angle which would get more benefit in the summer than the winter, regardless of diffused light.

I'm suggesting that maybe, given the predominance of cloud in the UK, that those who want a good "baseline" on the majority of days which are cloudy, then perhaps shallower angles would be better.
As FiT rates are now only slightly above retail electricity costs, it's becoming important to make use of it in-house.

Looking at my stats for the least year, by weather type:

8% Sunshine all day.

51% Partial cloud cover but generally a bit more sun than cloud.

31% Mostly cloud cover but occasional sunny spells.

7% Full cloud cover all day and often some light rain/showers at times.

4% Full dark cloud cover and usually considerable rain.
 
I just took an irradiance reading of 66.7 W/m2 (=dull and overcast), and my 4kW of panels are producing in the region of 335W. This easily covers my baseline power use. My panels and inverter are basic Suntellite/EverSolar, the inclination of my panels goes from around 3 to 8 degrees (I know but I'd never built a pergola before, and my garden is uneven!).

It's hard to be sure from PVOutput but live readings close to me at the time for a 40degree system with a slightly better orientation were ~250W.

Over time, a very well performing system near me compares like this:

pv.png

which I think demonstrates the arguments made above.

Is it better? Well my overall performance is 92% of this better oriented system and I don't have a very big roof anyway, and I can't simply tell how much electricity I would be buying because my meter's still going backwards.

Just thought I'd add some real world data.
 
Hi balbecdaze

It is clear to see that although "Solar Pergola" is 8% inferior in total generation, it is also less variable; more dependable.

KillaWatt is feast and famine by comparison. My own system is feast and famine and it annoys me as I either have way too little or far too much. Immersun attempts to address this, but if solar is to be a long-term "planet saver" then we need to start thinking about a more reliable daily generation, even if a lower total yield.

If the FiT rate was still 43p (45p) then KillaWatt would be desirable because FiT is so much higher than the cost of buying electricity.
However, with FiT rates around 14.5p and the cost of buying electricity around 12.5p, then a higher baseline might be more useful.
 
If you go to the EU website at PV potential estimation utility you can put in the roof inclination and orientation and find monthly outputs for systems of different size and technology, and of course annual outputs. The beauty of this free software is that it is computed based on a vast database of European weather gathered at great expense using several technologies, both ground and satellite based, and includes all important cloud cover statistics and the effects of scattered radiation ('skylight'). All kinds of optimisations are possible by varying the inclination angles in the program. You can even import a self surveyed horizon file to allow for obscuration.
 
FB is suggesting a 20 degree mounting angle which would get more benefit in the summer than the winter, regardless of diffused light.

I happened to visit the 2kW North + 2kW South array's owner on a cloudy afternoon (about 1.30pm) over the Christmas period; I looked at the inverter screen and saw that the North panels ("array2") were generating 0.83x that of the South panels ("array1").
Only on the rare sunny days do North panels lose out. However, for base/background load on dull days the North panels really help boost the usable amount of power. On bright days it's hard to use all the power and it goes into the grid, but on dull days there never seems to be enough power, so it really helps to have extra North panels at 0.83x that of South, when we're close to the shortest day and lowest sun.

I should add that the owner had three choices for solar:

1.
2.0kWp South-facing array (~30 degrees).
Cost would have been about £5k, annual output estimated 1800kWh by SAP-2009 = 0.36kWh per year, per £1000 spent.

2.
2.5kWp South-facing array, but one or two panels would be partially "hard-shaded" in the mornings due to a gable.
Cost would have been about £6k, annual output estimated 2300kWh by SAP-2009 = 0.38kWh per year, per £1000 spent.

3.
4.0kWp split equally North-South (~30 degrees, with no shading).
Cost about £7k, annual output estimated 2800kWh by SAP-2009 = 0.4kWh per year, per £1000 spent.

Option 3 would therefore have given the same or slightly higher ROI as option 2, but without the risk of shading.
 
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