Bonding Gas Supply in an Outbuilding

[Deleted member 26818]

So with no more information than a blue plastic pipe entering a building and then converting to copper you have decided it does not need bonding? Without any information as to where that copper goes or how it is installed which could make it extraneous?

You need to google the definition of extraneous.

 

[Simlec]

No. The installation in outbuilding is copper. Read the post properly.

NO the incoming pipe is plastic.

 

[TJ Anderson]

NO the incoming pipe is plastic.

So what?

 

[Deleted member 26818]

So what?

Being plastic, it is not an extraneous-conductive part, and does not require bonding.

 

[Simlec]

TJ back to school !

 

[TJ Anderson]

Im not talking about the plastic pipe. I am talking about the copper installation in the outbuilding. You do not know that it is not extraneous without testing it first.

 

[TJ Anderson]

TJ back to school !

Think again. It is you that does not understand. I am saying the only way you can prove that copper pipework is not extraneous is by testing. You are making assumptions.

 

[HandySparks]

Im not talking about the plastic pipe. I am talking about the copper installation in the outbuilding. You do not know that it is not extraneous without testing it first.

Indeed. But if testing shows it to be extraneous, the problem may be working out WHY it's extraneous and therefore WHERE it should be bonded.

 

[TJ Anderson]

Indeed. But if testing shows it to be extraneous, the problem may be working out WHY it's extraneous and therefore WHERE it should be bonded.

That is my point. But to get to that stage, you would have to test it first, prove if it is extraneous or not and then go from there.

 

[Simlec]

Well when I went to school plastic did not make a good material for conducting electricity.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Im not talking about the plastic pipe. I am talking about the copper installation in the outbuilding. You do not know that it is not extraneous without testing it first.

Again, the definition of extraneous needs to be googled.

 

[TJ Anderson]

Well when I went to school plastic did not make a good material for conducting electricity.

Read post #26!! I know the plastic pipe is not conductive ffs. I am talking with regard to the copper installation in the outbuilding. We know nothing about it from the OP's opening post so you cannot possibly know if it is extraneous or not as you don't have enough information to make that judgement.

 

[davesparks]

You need to google the definition of extraneous.

No I don't, the definition of the word extraneous won't help at all.

Bs7671 defines the term 'extraneous conductive part' in the context of electrical installations.

 

[TJ Anderson]

Again, the definition of extraneous needs to be googled.

I know what an extraneous conductive part is and what defines it (Extraneous-conductive-part: A conductive part liable to introduce a potential, generally earth potential, and not forming part of the electrical installation). How do you know it is not from the limited information the OP has provided regarding the copper installation pipework?

 

[davesparks]

NO the incoming pipe is plastic.

Yes the incoming pipe is plastic, but the installation it feeds is copper. There is no information as to how extensive the copper installation is or whether it is all surface pipework on plastic clips or mostly buried in the concrete floor structure or it could even go back underground as copper to feed another building.

Without further information there is no way to know whether or not the installation pipework will be an extraneous conductive part.

 

[HandySparks]

Yes the incoming pipe is plastic, but the installation it feeds is copper. There is no information as to how extensive the copper installation is or whether it is all surface pipework on plastic clips or mostly buried in the concrete floor structure or it could even go back underground as copper to feed another building.

Without further information there is no way to know whether or not the installation pipework will be an extraneous conductive part.

544.1.2 says "The main protective bonding connection to any gas, water or other service shall be made as near as practicable to the point of entry of that service into the premises."

Since it refers to the point of entry of the service, rather than the point of entry of the pipework, it appears to be saying that, even if the reason that the copper pipework is extraneous is that it feeds out underground in copper, the main bond should still be made at the incoming point.

 

[Simlec]

Yes the incoming pipe is plastic, but the installation it feeds is copper. There is no information as to how extensive the copper installation is or whether it is all surface pipework on plastic clips or mostly buried in the concrete floor structure or it could even go back underground as copper to feed another building.

Without further information there is no way to know whether or not the installation pipework will be an extraneous conductive part.

So the incoming pipe is plastic with a bond on it that's not needed. Ok we got there.
Yes it could go underground again (like the gas has and we said move the bond over to that pipe), and if it was copper then it would be bonded at that point would it not.
Am I right in thinking if a house had plastic gas & water incoming pipes and copper installation pipes that did not go underground again, you would bond the pipe work?
TJ, I think your comment of the word "Stupid" over steps the mark!!

 

[davesparks]

544.1.2 says "The main protective bonding connection to any gas, water or other service shall be made as near as practicable to the point of entry of that service into the premises."

Since it refers to the point of entry of the service, rather than the point of entry of the pipework, it appears to be saying that, even if the reason that the copper pipework is extraneous is that it feeds out underground in copper, the main bond should still be made at the incoming point.

Which supports my point exactly.

Although you would have to check exactly what they mean when they say 'service' and how you apply it. I would say in the situation that it is not the incoming service which is being bonded but the installation pipework and as such would be best to be bonded at the point that the extraneous part enters the installation.

 

[Knobhead]

?

Yes. your interpretation is correct.
My immediate thought was that it should be bonded, but I couldn't understand why it hadn't been done as the gas supply is an easy connection within 2 metres of the CU and all services were put in at the same time, 10 years ago. The water stopcock and bonding point are miles away.
Pete

Did it comply then?

 

[HandySparks]

Which supports my point exactly.

Although you would have to check exactly what they mean when they say 'service' and how you apply it. I would say in the situation that it is not the incoming service which is being bonded but the installation pipework and as such would be best to be bonded at the point that the extraneous part enters the installation.

I agree. It would be better to bond at the point where the metallic pipework enters the building, which isn't what the regs appear to be saying.