Combi boiler- How water not that hot anymore

[chris murphy]

"Hello again puddy",

Thanks for posting a reply to what I wrote - Sorry to read that You have had some VERY Bad experiences with a `Heating Installation Company` - ending up with what seems to have been a `Disasterous Heating / Boiler / Oil Tank Installation`!


Could You please help Me to understand something that you wrote about a Quote from one of My posts:

Originally Posted by chris murphy:

Something that occurs to Me immediately about this product is that Combination Boiler Manufacturers would probably be VERY unlikely to Approve the fitting of this `Thermostatic Control` to the Hot Water Outlet Pipework of their Combi`s.

Although it may be a `Water Supplier Approved device` - regarding the statement that it will `Save Water` - I cannot imagine that a Combi Manufacturer would approve ANY device that would Reduce / `Delay` the Hot Water Flow through the Boiler Heat Exchanger.

Because the device could malfunction I would not class it as the same as a Thermostatic Valve / Thermostatic Shower Valve - OR the same as reducing the Hot Water Flow rate through the Combi using a Tap / Shower Valve Control.

I have seen the British Gas and NPower Logo`s on the website as Installers of this product so there must either be some Manufacturer`s approvals or these Utility Companies must have decided that there is NO Issue regarding fitting these devices to Combination Boilers [?] - but I do not know about that.

Installing one of these on the Hot Water Outlet pipework from your Combination Boiler without getting approval from the Manufacturer [probably very unlikely] MAY cause the Appliance to become either `Faulty` - or possibly even Dangerous.


End of Quote


Your reply to that quote:




Site Forman said don’t fit if you have a boilermate 2000 it’s all done on flow and return temps when calling for heat or water its onboard chip gets confused I am sure you have come across them at some time? I like them but don't know how you guys feel when you find them in a property

End of your reply


I am NOT trying to be `Funny` / Awkward here:

I was commenting on the `New` Product that I mentioned in My post - the `Combisave` - I cannot see what You meant when you used the Quote in relation to your reply to it - ?



Could You please post a reply to explain what You meant - "Thanks".



Regards,



Chris

 

[puddy]

Could You please help Me to understand something that you wrote about a Quote from one of My posts

All its about was energy saving devices and why I was told not to fit them with a Boilermate 2000

Originally Posted by chris murphy:

Something that occurs to Me immediately about this product is that Combination Boiler Manufacturers would probably be VERY unlikely to Approve the fitting of this `Thermostatic Control` to the Hot Water Outlet Pipework of their Combi`s.

Although it may be a `Water Supplier Approved device` - regarding the statement that it will `Save Water` - I cannot imagine that a Combi Manufacturer would approve ANY device that would Reduce / `Delay` the Hot Water Flow through the Boiler Heat Exchanger.

Because the device could malfunction I would not class it as the same as a Thermostatic Valve / Thermostatic Shower Valve - OR the same as reducing the Hot Water Flow rate through the Combi using a Tap / Shower Valve Control.

I have seen the British Gas and NPower Logo`s on the website as Installers of this product so there must either be some Manufacturer`s approvals or these Utility Companies must have decided that there is NO Issue regarding fitting these devices to Combination Boilers [?] - but I do not know about that.

Installing one of these on the Hot Water Outlet pipework from your Combination Boiler without getting approval from the Manufacturer [probably very unlikely] MAY cause the Appliance to become either `Faulty` - or possibly even Dangerous.

End of Quote

Your reply to that quote:

Site Forman said don’t fit if you have a boilermate 2000 it’s all done on flow and return temps when calling for heat or water its onboard chip gets confused I am sure you have come across them at some time? I like them but don't know how you guys feel when you find them in a property

End of your reply

I am NOT trying to be `Funny` / Awkward here:

I was commenting on the `New` Product that I mentioned in My post - the `Combisave` - I cannot see what You meant when you used the Quote in relation to your reply to it - ?
Could You please post a reply to explain what You meant - "Thanks".

When I moved to my present home we found that there was no hot water tank and it had been replaced with a device called a Boilermate 2000. When you move to a new housing development you tend to be given freebee’s. The enclosed box had 4 low energy bulbs and includes devices to screw on or attached disk to your taps that meant you would save water if you fitted them

But

The site foreman told is not to fit them

This has nothing to do at all about the Combisave product if you had worked on a Boilermate 2000 you would understand why the devices I was given free should not be fitted.

It seems when computer chips take over any devices not approved by a boilermaker you could knock out fine tolerances that could cause problems. It’s a bit like getting your car engine ECU chipped. Have you worked with a Boilermate 2000?

I am not sure if your building insurance would pay out if you fitted things to your boiler without speaking to the manufacture first. Insurance companies use every trick in the book not to pay out

 

[chris murphy]

All its about was energy saving devices and why I was told not to fit them with a Boilermate 2000


Site Forman said don’t fit if you have a boilermate 2000 it’s all done on flow and return temps when calling for heat or water its onboard chip gets confused I am sure you have come across them at some time? I like them but don't know how you guys feel when you find them in a property

End of your reply



When I moved to my present home we found that there was no hot water tank and it had been replaced with a device called a Boilermate 2000. When you move to a new housing development you tend to be given freebee’s. The enclosed box had 4 low energy bulbs and includes devices to screw on or attached disk to your taps that meant you would save water if you fitted them

But

The site foreman told is not to fit them

This has nothing to do at all about the Combisave product if you had worked on a Boilermate 2000 you would understand why the devices I was given free should not be fitted.

It seems when computer chips take over any devices not approved by a boilermaker you could knock out fine tolerances that could cause problems. It’s a bit like getting your car engine ECU chipped. Have you worked with a Boilermate 2000?

I am not sure if your building insurance would pay out if you fitted things to your boiler without speaking to the manufacture first. Insurance companies use every trick in the book not to pay out

"Hello puddy",

Thanks for your reply - sorry that it was not obvious to Me that You were agreeing with Me on NOT just retrofitting ANY item to a Heating / Hot Water Appliance - certainly not without obtaining the Manufacturers Approval - which I stated to be VERY unlikely for MOST Devices.

I have NOT worked on a BoilerMate 2000 - this is because I am a Heating, Plumbing & Gas Installation Contractor - NOT a Boiler Engineer / `Service & Repair Engineer`.

Also I believe that these Appliances are almost always installed on New Build Developments and there have been not many `Estates` created in the area of London where I operate - nor do I Contract for any Developers / Estate Builders who would possibly have installed these Appliances in their developments.

BUT - I am a Heating Engineer and if I read the Installation & Maintenance Instructions for ANY Domestic Heating Appliance I would then understand the specification / operation of it.

AND: I already know NOT to just Fit ANY `Energy / Water Saving Device` to a Heating / Hot Water / Gas / Electrical Appliance without the Manufacturers Approval.

I was stating / advising this in the message that You quoted.

I have heard just a few comments in the past from Boiler Engineers / `Heating System Maintenance Engineers` regarding the Boilermate 2000 and later models - some positive - some negative - naturally because these Engineers will probably have been called in to rectify a Fault / Service the Appliance they may have slightly biased views on the Boilermate 2000 and the later models [?] - especially as these Appliances are relatively `Rare` in most areas.



I have NOT heard enough OR ever `Researched` these `Boilermate 2000` Appliances enough to have any Technical comment on them.


Your point on Home Insurance is well made - I have stated this a few times on the Forum previously - ANYTHING that is fitted to a Gas Appliance that is NOT either fitted or APPROVED by the Manufacturer could easily be pointed out by an Insurer as the Appliance having been `Modified` / `Not as Manufactured`.

The Insurers / `Loss Adjuster` will have Gas Engineers who they can call out as a matter of course when there is a Claim which is related to a Gas Appliance - these Gas Engineers WILL be looking for ANY reason to allow the Insurer to refuse the Claim.

In the event of a problem with / caused by the Appliance - the Homeowners / Occupiers Home / Contents Insurance could be `Null & Void` !


Regards,



Chris - Heating Engineer - Registered Gas Engineer - Plumber / Heating, Plumbing & Gas Contractor.