Confused

[imago]

The holes are typically in all the wrong places. The majority of them are drilled too close to the top or bottom of the joist so would be well within range for a screw or nail.

Cable could be routed through some of them but it'd end up a right rats nest and use way more cable than required.

There were plenty of cowboys about, working on price, to silly deadlines, not too bothered because "it's only" etc. Not just in the electrical trade either. We mostly do refurbs, and the cr4p we find from the 1970s and earlier would make your hair curl.

 

[Engineer54]

The holes are typically in all the wrong places. The majority of them are drilled too close to the top or bottom of the joist so would be well within range for a screw or nail.

Cable could be routed through some of them but it'd end up a right rats nest and use way more cable than required.

There were plenty of cowboys about, working on price, to silly deadlines, not too bothered because "it's only" etc. Not just in the electrical trade either. We mostly do refurbs, and the cr4p we find from the 1970s and earlier would make your hair curl.

You wouldn't have found many cowboys about before the 70's (which is what imeant by ''relatively recently'')!! As i say, that property probably had a 100 years with very little being touched, especially by cowboys....

 

[shanky887614]

I like wiring lights in single core, makes life hell when someone has lost the sw feed though going to the light

 

[davesparks]

Eh? Like 99% on here - loop in and out at switch or light point. Preference for light point for a number of reasons

Well I guess I was just taught different to anyone else. A central joint box makes alterations and fault finding a doddle.

I don't like looping at switches due to the number of cables that end up behind the switch. But some situations require it.
I don't like looping at lights anymore as all these ridiculous lights fittings people but don't have the space for one cable in them, let alone 3.

 

[imago]

You wouldn't have found many cowboys about before the 70's (which is what imeant by ''relatively recently'')!! As i say, that property probably had a 100 years with very little being touched, especially by cowboys....

Most of the work we do is on properties Victorian through to mid seventies and I would say without fear of error that 25 - 30% of all the original construction/installation work we uncover on refurbs and restorations is poor to awful.

That covers structural work such as the much vaunted 6" by 3" joists which everyone says are so much stronger than the 'modern rubbish'. But that doesn't take into account the fact that they are installed so that an inch and a half at each end is all that's holding everything up. Done because the persons installing them were either bad at their job or didn't care. Which makes the construction considerably weaker than the supposedly poorer construction methods used today. Lime mortar using next to no lime, sand and cement mortar using next to no cement, because they were trying to cut costs. Results in very weak and unstable walls and supports. Low grade inferior concrete used in social housing throughout the '50s '60s and '70s. Electrical installs from new in '60 and '70s houses where cables run across walls at 45 degrees, or run down one wall then go through it to an outlet so that there's no indication of a cable being present. And lets not forget the much despised (apparently) junction box. When were they at their peak for use? Oh yes, the decades of the perfect tradesmen in the '60s and '70s.

Rose tinted spectacles aside, there were just as many cowboys cutting just as many corners in the '50s '60s and '70s and before as there are now. It's just that some people have selective memories and like to pretend that everything old was fantastically constructed and everything new is poorly constructed. Both of which are demonstrably incorrect.

Edited to add:-
I would say that the main difference between trades now and forty plus years ago is at the top end, not the bottom. The worst from then and the worst from now are about on a par. However, the best work from that era is better than the best from now. I think there are a few reasons, but the main one being the time and budgets allowed on the high end jobs covered the construction phase as well as accessories and finish. I also think that some jobs that were inspected to a higher standard.

 

[imago]

I don't like looping at lights anymore as all these ridiculous lights fittings people but don't have the space for one cable in them, let alone 3.

I've started using those Wago 'two in one out' lighting connectors. You can then push the main body of connectors up into the ceiling and only have L N and E coming down to the fitting. Everything is still accessible, but life is made much easier.

 

[Sparkie30]

In T&E, that's the very LAST way i'd ever wire a house!! Switch looping can lead to backboxes being well an truly packed, and for no good reason either!!

Also opens the door to allow DIY'ers to easily get up to all sorts of unmentionables on a lighting circuit!!!

Thats why we are all different it's works for me but not for you. I think as long you fix a 35mm back you have plenty of space.

As for DIY'ers it's the opposite, when they open the box it will scare them off hopefully anyway.

 

[davesparks]

I've started using those Wago 'two in one out' lighting connectors. You can then push the main body of connectors up into the ceiling and only have L N and E coming down to the fitting. Everything is still accessible, but life is made much easier.

Are you putting them in enclosure before pushing them through the ceiling and into the void above?

 

[wozz]

3x1.5mm in a 35mm backbox causes a problem? I must say I can't remember there ever being a problem with this. That said there isn't a will always do method, depends on the fittings, construction to name but a few considerations. I've used centeral jbs when wiring houses that are very old, having one cable at a wall light is a lot easier, also older houses have nice places to tuck them away.

 

[davesparks]

No it doesn't, but once you have multiple switches in one back box you get a lot of cables.
Especially when people insist on using 1.5 for a 6A cct instead of 1.0