Consumer unit change - How do you do it?

[catdog1121]

Dont change many consumer units, usually go ok but had one today that I did cheap for next door neighbour (Why is it always the ones you do cheap for friends and family that bite you). Anyway changed the board etc, all ok. Then came testing and obviously have various alterations in the last 40yrs, still had original wylex rewireable fuses.

I found Neutral ring missing - A socket had a neutral out.
Conservatory had two sockets, a light and an automatic window opener all spured off a spur in the kitchen with no grommets in the back box (Apparently done by an electrician)
One socket of two gang no neutral - just change face plate
One socket no neutral (Spur) - Just had to wago and put blank plate as obviously a junction box under the floor
There was some others as well.

Anyway in my haste to speed up testing I did insulation resistance with a couple of sockets off (I know stupid), when powered on RCD kept tripping if I removed socket neutrals it was fine. Finally tracked it down to a really tight socket in the kitchen that had a damaged neutral cable, managed to sort everything.

Started at 9.30, was running around in the dark finished about 8pm with everything ok, im totally shattered.

I am thinking of insisting on a full EICR before I do a consumer unit change again, at least you know what you are getting into mostly and you dont spend an entire evening trying to chase down issues as once you have changed the board and especially adding RCD's your kinda committed.

Just wondering do others do EICR beforehand or just wing it?

If you just wing it how often do you have issues?

 

[ipf]

Always do a good bit of testing before changing a CU and plenty of visuals. If not. they tend to bounce back, as you found out.
Gives you a good idea. You can generally tell the nasties before beginning but not always.....one good reason for pre testing.

 

[Dartlec]

Dont change many consumer units, usually go ok but had one today that I did cheap for next door neighbour (Why is it always the ones you do cheap for friends and family that bite you). Anyway changed the board etc, all ok. Then came testing and obviously have various alterations in the last 40yrs, still had original wylex rewireable fuses.

I found Neutral ring missing - A socket had a neutral out.
Conservatory had two sockets, a light and an automatic window opener all spured off a spur in the kitchen with no grommets in the back box (Apparently done by an electrician)
One socket of two gang no neutral - just change face plate
One socket no neutral (Spur) - Just had to wago and put blank plate as obviously a junction box under the floor
There was some others as well.

Anyway in my haste to speed up testing I did insulation resistance with a couple of sockets off (I know stupid), when powered on RCD kept tripping if I removed socket neutrals it was fine. Finally tracked it down to a really tight socket in the kitchen that had a damaged neutral cable, managed to sort everything.

Started at 9.30, was running around in the dark finished about 8pm with everything ok, im totally shattered.

I am thinking of insisting on a full EICR before I do a consumer unit change again, at least you know what you are getting into mostly and you dont spend an entire evening trying to chase down issues as once you have changed the board and especially adding RCD's your kinda committed.

Just wondering do others do EICR beforehand or just wing it?

If you just wing it how often do you have issues?

I pretty much always do at least the circuit testing part of an EICR first, often a little while prior to the planned board change, to avoid the running around.

At least if there is already RCD protection you know shouldn't have random tripping when you add them into the mix.

Tbh the easiest changes are probably an old rewireable Wylex where it's all original wiring, there aren't that many sockets and no-one has been fiddling.

In later ones or where there are extensions or DIY owners etc I'd say it's maybe 50-50 with ring continuity, especially if they've had the kitchen done at some point. And it's almost never possible to fully track down the ins and outs of a lighting circuit where there are lots of fancy fittings, exterior floods, etc - always much easier with just pendants!

And some of the worst in terms of testing or working out which wire is which are the new build flats 2000-2010. Always find some weird oddity when doing EICRs on them.

 

[catdog1121]

Thanks, I dont think ill ever get consumer unit changes round where I am if I charge for a EICR then remedial then change the board. To many people who will change the board for 150-200 labour plus a cheap BG screwfix special.

Cant really compete with that and frankly not interested in competing, and those guys just sting the customer if there are issues or bodge it so it works.

I never tend to quote for anything apart from commercial and EICR's, just tell the customer my hourly rate and give an estimate on number of hours plus estimate on parts.

 

[Dustydazzler]

I think the way forwards these days is to do a Full eicr on the property at say £20 per circuit.
at the same time while roaming round the house price up the board change and all the remedial work like missing bonding , replace broken accessories etc etc
if every Thing checks out ok on testing , no broken rings , borrowed neutrals etc
put your quote in For a simple board change and offer to knock 50% the eicr when you do the consumer unit and all remedial work...

if they opt not to do the board then you just invoice for the eicr and leave it at that

thoughts ?

 

[catdog1121]

I think the way forwards these days is to do a Full eicr on the property at say £20 per circuit.
at the same time while roaming round the house price up the board change and all the remedial work like missing bonding , replace broken accessories etc etc
if every Thing checks out ok on testing , no broken rings , borrowed neutrals etc
put your quote in For a simple board change and offer to knock 50% the eicr when you do the consumer unit and all remedial work...

if they opt not to do the board then you just invoice for the eicr and leave it at that

thoughts ?

Sounds like a good plan, although dont think u need to knock off the 50%. I have started refusing giving quotes. I just find too much crap wrong, maybe im unlucky but I now just say I charge £35 per hour, it should take approx x hours depending how many issues I find and parts should be around x cost. I just think its fairer that I get paid for the hours I work and it always seems to take longer than I thought as I always seem to find problems from a previous cowboy or diyer.

They should be stricter on who can work on electrics and mandate every house have an eicr every 10yrs and gas safety every 5yrs. Given the things I see on a daily basis either im too by the book or I dont know how there are not more fires and shocks. I guess most shocks never get reported

 

[FatAlan]

Pre testing has always been advocated on here and makes perfect sense. Recently did a board change and a partial rewire. Split board to RCBO’s. Lighting circuits tripped after change but fortunately ...thanks to John Ward my suspicion of a borrowed neutral on the two way light circuit proved correct.

 

[nicebutdim]

Sounds like a good plan, although dont think u need to knock off the 50%. I have started refusing giving quotes. I just find too much crap wrong, maybe im unlucky but I now just say I charge £35 per hour, it should take approx x hours depending how many issues I find and parts should be around x cost. I just think its fairer that I get paid for the hours I work and it always seems to take longer than I thought as I always seem to find problems from a previous cowboy or diyer.

As a customer, the problem with opened ended pricing is that it's often used by the sort of people who like to gouge on price.

I don't mind being told that a job can not be undertaken on the basis of a fixed price, but I do expect to be given a ball park figure and an explanation about why that price may not be firm. Perhaps it would be best to explain upfront to customers how different their new board will be in terms of protection for them and their property and the impact that even minor issues with existing wiring might have? That way you'll get many customers onside with the safety aspect - obviously some customers will care more about price than safety, but perhaps those aren't the sort of customers you want to work for anyway...

 

[catdog1121]

As a customer, the problem with opened ended pricing is that it's often used by the sort of people who like to gouge on price.

I don't mind being told that a job can not be undertaken on the basis of a fixed price, but I do expect to be given a ball park figure and an explanation about why that price may not be firm. Perhaps it would be best to explain upfront to customers how different their new board will be in terms of protection for them and their property and the impact that even minor issues with existing wiring might have? That way you'll get many customers onside with the safety aspect - obviously some customers will care more about price than safety, but perhaps those aren't the sort of customers you want to work for anyway...

I give them an estimate of how long it will take, I tend to try and go on the longer side so no arguments.

 

[Dustydazzler]

Pretty sensible these days to just book out a Whole day for a complete board change

gone are the days of 3 board swaps on a Saturday when you could just stick everything on the non rcd side if you found one with a tripping issue

 

[telectrix]

9.00 am. arrive on site.
9.30am. quick smoke and get tools off van.
10.00am. start stripping old CU.
12.00. break for 2 hour lunch at nearest pub.
14.30. screw CU on wall and start bunging in cables.
16.00. break for smoke and swig of JD.
17.00.bung lid on and throw main switch.
17.30. OK it works, pass go and collect £400.
18.00.park up at pub to spend some of the ill gotton gains.

you're right. a full day.

 

[Dustydazzler]

Neat & Tidy but no dead testing ...

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2MY3ukBRAw

 

[Mike Johnson]

I wonder what happened to all the existing cables, stuffed behind the new plywood panel?

 

[Pretty Mouth]

I very rarely do CU changes. But it strikes me that to get the info for the EIC, you have to do a fair portion of the work of an EICR anyway. May as well just do all the tests in advance of the board change so you know what you're dealing with.

 

[Dustydazzler]

I wonder what happened to all the existing cables, stuffed behind the new plywood panel?

still just hanging there we he left them...

 

[HappyHippyDad]

I change a domestic consumer unit perhaps once per month.
I do some simple tests on the pre works visit.. global IR, few pictures, check Main bonding. This means I have an idea if any extra work may be required which I mention in the quote.
When I am carrying out the actual CU change I do the dead tests after I have removed the existing CU and just have all the cables poking out of the wall (or into the shell of the new CU). It doesn't make any sense to terminate them all neatly and then take them out again for the dead tests. Live tests at the end when all is finished.
I don't think you need to carry out an EICR with every board change. Just a good pre works visit. On occasion I may suggest an EICR if the house looks like it needs it. This would then be cheaper than a normal EICR as some of the work is duplicated with CU change.

 

[westward10]

I change a domestic consumer unit perhaps once per month.
I do some simple tests on the pre works visit.. global IR, few pictures, check Main bonding. This means I have an idea if any extra work may be required which I mention in the quote.
When I am carrying out the actual CU change I do the dead tests after I have removed the existing CU and just have all the cables poking out of the wall (or into the shell of the new CU). It doesn't make any sense to terminate them all neatly and then take them out again for the dead tests. Live tests at the end when all is finished.
I don't think you need to carry out an EICR with every board change. Just a good pre works visit. On occasion I may suggest an EICR if the house looks like it needs it. This would then be cheaper than a normal EICR as some of the work is duplicated with CU change.

You do IR tests with all the cpcs isolated from each other and the earthing conductor? I test as I am connecting them.

 

[ChrisElectrical88]

Always insist on a full EICR before changing a board now. Always book a full day for the EICR and a day for a bird change. So your looking at a minimum of about £700 for me to change a 10 way board for a RCBO board with SPD.

 

[Dustydazzler]

Always insist on a full EICR before changing a board now. Always book a full day for the EICR and a day for a bird change. So your looking at a minimum of about £700 for me to change a 10 way board for a RCBO board with SPD.

thats pretty reasonable imo , not sure a Pre board swap eicr Would last me a full day thou. Reckon I could be done by lunch time

 

[DPG]

Always insist on a full EICR before changing a board now. Always book a full day for the EICR and a day for a bird change. So your looking at a minimum of about £700 for me to change a 10 way board for a RCBO board with SPD.

I need a bird change. Got any good models?