Death penalty

[trev]

Des I never claimed that criminality is anything other than a personal choice. However, these countries who place an emphasis on educating and rehabilitating the convicted have a lower recidivism rate than those who solely emphasise punishment.
A guy I know went to prison when he was young and stupid, he realised that being there was the punishment and that he could use his time behind bars to his own good. He knuckled down and hit the books, very, very hard. He's now a productive member of society, he's living a good life and is a very good father to his kids who are pretty firmly on the straight and narrow.

 

[rapparee]

I'd also be weary of following the americans and their prison industrial complex, where prisoners are used as slave labour in private institutions placed there by a corrupt judge

 

[trev]

More on that. I'd be very wary of the privately run prison organisations which will undoubtedly campaign for stiffer sentences for minor crimes. I don't think it'll be a good thing for our society if our prison system were ran for profit by companies.
Prison ran systems like Gordon Ramsey and a few others tried to introduce I have no problem with

 

[ian.settle1]

What do you think about countries like Indonesia which gives the death penalty to people who are court carrying illegal drugs in large quantities?

 

[trev]

I don't agree with the death penalty no matter what. However, if you're stupid enough to carry any item into a country which prohibits it then you pay the penalty prescribed by their law and no amount of intervention by the Foreign Office is likely to change that

 

[Diddy]

What do you think about countries like Indonesia which gives the death penalty to people who are court carrying illegal drugs in large quantities?

Tough one as they have every right to "protect" their people in whatever manner they see fit. If we as a country do not approve then we can simply cease to trade with them. Funny old thing drugs and the smugglers ect. They are supplying a demand, I have been around a bit and have never been "pushed" into doing drugs nor have I witnessed anyone being forced in any way....That said
these people do import "misery" for some. I actually know some dealers (in a past life officer') and they are ordinary people who operate outside the law. So yes they are breaking the law...but no they are not forcing anyone nor standing outside school gates...I have often wondered about our own justice system which has a man who has killed someone out in less than ten years (I know two guys in this bracket...not friends lol) and the guy caught with a kilo of cocaine who will be lucky to get out before 20 years....Who is the biggest danger to society ? The law says its the dealer....

 

[Diddy]

Further to what Des wrote...I could not disagree more to be fair. Rehabilitation IS in ALL our interests. I would rather a violent offender comes out of prison totally rehabilitated rather than angry and vengeful. The system may have got it's revenge but at what cost ? How high does the reoffending rate have to get before people realise that the current regime does not work on many levels.
I still think sentences are all over the place too. People slashing innocents every weekend - most will escape prison if they get to court. Steal a diamond ring from a posh jewelry and you are off for a stretch. The biggest one for me is the crazy system where we can and do send people to prison for watching live tv without a licence.....The BBC should have to pick up the bill there.

 

[Adam W]

The biggest one for me is the crazy system where we can and do send people to prison for watching live tv without a licence.....The BBC should have to pick up the bill there.

Do people get sent to prison for watching telly without a licence?

There was an article in the local paper where a motorcyclist in his 60s was speeding down an empty dual carriageway on a Saturday morning, then slammed on the brakes when he saw a speed camera van lurking at the side of the road. He came off his bike and died at the scene. Comments at the bottom of the article seemed to suggest it was his fault for speeding in the first place. The death penalty for driving too fast seems extreme to me.

 

[Diddy]

Do people get sent to prison for watching telly without a licence?

Between these dates - [FONT=Georgia, Century, Times, serif]January 2011 to March 2013 107 people were sent to prison for not paying tv licence. Don't know the most recent figures....we had 180.000 people up in court in 2012 for the same offence. It should be civil nor criminal, just keep taking the tv away if caught, that would probably be more effective.[/FONT]

 

[Adam W]

Between these dates - January 2011 to March 2013 107 people were sent to prison for not paying tv licence. Don't know the most recent figures....we had 180.000 people up in court in 2012 for the same offence. It should be civil nor criminal, just keep taking the tv away if caught, that would probably be more effective.

I always thought you just got a fine. They say it's 'up to £1000' but from what I've heard it's more like a couple of hundred quid.

 

[SPARTYKUS]

Interesting thread. Yet to comment....

 

[SPARTYKUS]

My dad lived in the middle east for quite a while, probably over a decade in the eighties. He sold telecoms to governments (but likes to joke about it being a cover job for special ops).

well I was lucky enough to see a bit of that world when I was a teenager, and it was interesting, but relevant bit is I remember me dad showing me the paper in Bahrain one day and it was front page news, someone had stolen something. And his hand was cut off. The culprit, not me dad.

now this is not made up this is real, and stuck with me, that someone nicking something was such big news that it made the front page. The point being it hardly ever happened.

 

[SPARTYKUS]

You miss my point. Barry George (among many others that could be named) was found guilty by a court on the grounds of the weight of evidence against him, some of it circumstantial, some of it forensic but the point is that he would have hanged some three weeks after being found guilty.
What would you say to his family after it was found that some of the evidence against him was fabricated and he was found to be not guilty of the crime for which he would have hanged?

Hello Mr Trev

I look forward to a heated discussion on this subject when I sample your mean bacon sarnie ;-)

 

[derek]

Nothing whatsoever,what they do is their business

I do however feel that society makes rules that we all live by,if we don't agree with a law.as a society we get rid or change that law

Doing wrong is a criminals decision.
I have heard pleas over many years about deprivation and inequality and the like being the cause and that the criminal is just a product of society
Being poor or from a disadvantaged family or the like is no excuse at all, ever

If a crime is committed,the penalty must be very severe in all cases,it should also be very very early in a criminals career
I happen to think that a person is the decision maker, when it comes to crime, its their decision to continue with crime or to learn that it does not pay

I have very strong feelings about criminality and have no time at all for concerns of rehabilitation by the state, or excuses of why a criminal acts,I believe punishment is the only tool that will curb the ever growing capacity of the criminal to commit those acts

You say no excuses for criminality are acceptable but one point I'd like to expand on is people sent to prison for not paying their TV licence and associated fines because they can't read and so all their warning letters about getting a TV licence go in the bin, when they get arrested and are in court they are too embarrassed to admit they can't read. Surely education in their case would be beneficial?

 

[shanky887614]

You say no excuses for criminality are acceptable but one point I'd like to expand on is people sent to prison for not paying their TV licence and associated fines because they can't read and so all their warning letters about getting a TV licence go in the bin, when they get arrested and are in court they are too embarrassed to admit they can't read. Surely education in their case would be beneficial?

you only need a tv licence if you have an aerial and watch live tv.

recorded/internet tv isnt covered by the tv license

 

[Leesparkykent]

you only need a tv licence if you have an aerial and watch live tv.

recorded/internet tv isnt covered by the tv license

you are required to have a TV licence if what you have recorded is recorded at the same time as broadcast and if you are watching programmes at the same time as they are shown on TV, whether on a computer, TV or any other type of equipment.

 

[Engineer54]

I can agree with those against the death sentence for typical criminal acts of murder and the like,...but when it comes to terrorists of any description that go to a place with the sole intention of indiscriminately killing and maiming as many innocent people as possible then they deserve nothing less. As far as these ISSI Jihadists are concerned you are fooling yourself big time if you even remotely consider that these maniac's can be rehabilitated.

 

[D Skelton]

So what would you do with someone like JIHAD JOHN?? Why the hell should we keep these sort of people for the rest of their life at a horrendous cost to the country?? All while they brainwash others into becoming carbon copies of themselves!!..,

Personally no need for any execution ceremony/procedure, ...on the due court assigned date, taken to a tiled room and a single bullet to the back of the head.... Sorted!!

Works pretty well over here in China!! lol!

Some people are just pure Evil, that just have no place in this world, so why prolong the the inevitable!!

Eh, Sorry??

No, seriously when you have a person caught on camera bang to rights, without a shadow of a doubt of guilt.... I'd have no hesitatation whatsoever signing a death warrant....

Now I'm not saying I necessarily disagree with you in principle, however have you actually seen 'Jihadi John' kill anyone?! Or, are you in fact relying on what the media and the 'security' services are telling you?

 

[Engineer54]

Now I'm not saying I necessarily disagree with you in principle, however have you actually seen 'Jihadi John' kill anyone?! Or, are you in fact relying on what the media and the 'security' services are telling you?

I'm basically just using this extremist Jihadi John nutter as an example, as well as the other criteria i've quoted. No i would never rely on the media unless they can provide unequivocal prove what they are writing/broadcasting is fact!! The security services would also need to prove what they know (in a closed court session if necessary). No what i'm stating is, that when/if someone is known and has been caught on camera committing terrorist type atrocities there is no defence....

 

[D Skelton]

I'm basically just using this extremist Jihadi John nutter as an example, as well as the other criteria i've quoted. No i would never rely on the media unless they can provide unequivocal prove what they are writing/broadcasting is fact!! The security services would also need to prove what they know (in a closed court session if necessary). No what i'm stating is, that when/if someone is known and has been caught on camera committing terrorist type atrocities there is no defence....

I get what you're saying.

My thoughts:

Didn't we declare war on terror? If so, terrorists should be shot on sight a they are legitimate enemy combatants.