Do you need to PAT test / test fixed appliances

[Dozer 73]

Been asked this question today by one of our engineers , do you need to pat test / test fixed appliances / equipment ( hand dryers , heaters etc )
My opinion Yes he thinks no
Something we don’t really do but know we really should and keep records of these tests

 

[Risteard]

I suppose it depends what you mean by "need". It's not the same as "should".

 

[westward10]

Well fixed equipment is not a portable appliance so as such cannot be Portable Appliance Tested

 

[Dozer 73]

I suppose it depends what you mean by "need". It's not the same as "should".

I suppose it depends what you mean by "need". It's not the same as "should".

i

Been asked this question today by one of our engineers , do you need to pat test / test fixed appliances / equipment ( hand dryers , heaters etc )
My opinion Yes he thinks no
Something we don’t really do but know we really should and keep records of these tests

Is it a requirement

 

[Risteard]

i

Is it a requirement

Is it a requirement of whom or what?

Their insurance company? I don't know - ask them.

 

[Dozer 73]

Is it a requirement of whom or what?

Their insurance company? I don't know - ask them.

Is it a requirement as you as a company

 

[Risteard]

Is it a requirement as you as a company

You still haven't made it clear what you're asking. Is it a requirement of whom or what that you (as a company) do it?

 

[westward10]

There is no legal requirement to PA Test anything but the law requires you to abide by the following
• Health and Safety at Work Act 1974
• Electricity at Work Regulations 1989
• The Provision and Use of Work Equipment Regs 1998
• The Management of Health and Safety at Work Regs 1999
The above are legal requirements and the easiest way to comply is to PA Test.

 

[Dozer 73]

On any work premises should the company who own/ control the business pat test /test fixed appliances

 

[Dozer 73]

There is no legal requirement to PA Test anything but the law requires you to abide by the following
• Health and Safety at Work Act 1974
• Electricity at Work Regulations 1989
• The Provision and Use of Work Equipment Regs 1998
• The Management of Health and Safety at Work Regs 1999
The above are legal requirements and the easiest way to comply is to PA Test.

I agree totally

 

[Richard Burns]

In terms of In service inspection and testing of electrical equipment if there is a requirement in for equipment to be tested (such as when there is no planned preventative maintenance regime in place) then all electrical equipment should be tested at intervals this includes items of fixed or stationary type.
If this were not the case then your EICR of the fixed wiring would omit these and the ISITEE would omit these and they are subject to wear and tear just as anything else so need to be covered somehow.

 

[westward10]

It would depend on a risk assessment but personally I would include them in the EICR and ensure routine checks along with record keeping are carried out in the interim periods.

 

[Toneyz]

I tend to take the view that fixed equipment eg via switched fused spur etc. is part of the fixed electrical installation and is tested as p[art of a EICR. Portable appliances done periodically based upon a risk assessment eg plugged in appliances such as computers ,fridges would be of a less risk than say drills in the workshop or the kettle toaster in the staff rest room.

 

[Dozer 73]

http://electrical.------.org/books/-files/cop-iitee-ed-4-toc.cfm
Says it all , good read

 

[Dozer 73]

I tend to take the view that fixed equipment eg via switched fused spur etc. is part of the fixed electrical installation and is tested as p[art of a EICR. Portable appliances done periodically based upon a risk assessment eg plugged in appliances such as computers ,fridges would be of a less risk than say drills in the workshop or the kettle toaster in the staff rest room.

Other than the xed installation, which is considered to be the installation from the meter point to the socket-outlet, or fuse connection unit, all electrical equipment in an installation, whether permanently connected or connected by a plug and socket-outlet,
Code of Practice for in-service inspection and testing of electrical equipment © The Institution of Engineering and Technology

 

[Dozer 73]

I tend to take the view that fixed equipment eg via switched fused spur etc. is part of the fixed electrical installation and is tested as p[art of a EICR. Portable appliances done periodically based upon a risk assessment eg plugged in appliances such as computers ,fridges would be of a less risk than say drills in the workshop or the kettle toaster in the staff rest room.

Other than the xed installation, which is considered to be the installation from the meter point to the socket-outlet, or fuse connection unit, all electrical equipment in an installation, whether permanently connected or connected by a plug and socket-outlet,
Code of Practice for in-service inspection and testing of electrical equipment © The Institution of Engineering and Technology

fixed wire testing only covers as far as sockets , fused spurs , isolator
Rest should be covered by in service inspection and testing of electrical code of practise

 

[Toneyz]

Maybe I'm missing something here but please enlighten me as how you practically would do this on sat a fixed heater fed via switched fused spur. All the PAT testers that I know of you have to plug the item into.

 

[Toneyz]

Maybe I'm missing something here but please enlighten me as how you practically would do this on say a fixed heater fed via switched fused spur. All the PAT testers that I know of you have to plug the item into.

 

[Strima]

Take the cable out of the FCU and connect it to this: QuickTest QT/1 Electrical Testing Adaptor With 1.5M Cable - http://www.testermans.co.uk/quicktest-qt1-electrical-testing-adaptor

 

[Toneyz]

Really,so what do you do with hand dryers ,a heater in a w.c on a switched fused spur I'm learning here by the way I can't see this paying well especially for the companies that charge very little per item.

 

[Strima]

Really,so what do you do with hand dryers ,a heater in a w.c on a switched fused spur I'm learning here by the way I can't see this paying well especially for the companies that charge very little per item.

Do you think they test it correctly?

 

[Toneyz]

Do you think they test it correctly?

No, however I'm interested to what members do on here as I've always taken the view that portable appliances with a plug was tested with a PAT tester and fixed appliances was part of the electrical installation and done on the EICR.

 

[westward10]

Any fixed equipment I IR test with the circuit and check earth continuity.

 

[Toneyz]

Any fixed equipment I IR test with the circuit and check earth continuity.

Got to say this is what we do so I am interested how you PAT test these fixed items.

 

[Dozer 73]

Oh yes its a right can of worms , we sat the c and g pat testing course few year ago (lucky us)
And had this conversation, yes as per book you are suppose to disconnect and put plug or adaptor on and test
Or use ins res tester , low ohm tester and log information on sheet
Cost and time wise we ignored it
Now certain clients are asking for proof of testing , nation grid
At one point we agreed to put on periodic and in notes list appliances and results
That soon stopped
We are now being asked again by a client
Its written into our electrical group rules all the different acts , regs , guidance notes we adhere to
So looks like we may be doing it by the book
Imagine the cost implications , some times our site are in the arse of nowhere
Manager write rams for us , we drive up there 300 mile , write daily risk assessment, get inducted , write isolation permit for hand dryer , lock off , disconnect flex out of spur , test
Few more items to test
Day over , hotel and meal
Get up breakfast , drive back to office or next job
Electrical charges £325 per day plus hotel £80-120
This really happens at the min with pat testing and maintaining sites for our customers like grid and rail for us to keep complaint with them
No wonder electric , gas and rail bills are through the roof £££££££££

 

[Dozer 73]

Any fixed equipment I IR test with the circuit and check earth continuity.

Agreed but as a company you should be keeping a log of applainces , make , serial no , etc , last - next inspection label
What if someone changed faulty heater , hand dryer do they up date test sheets
It really is a can of worms and a ball ache

 

[Pete999]

Been asked this question today by one of our engineers , do you need to pat test / test fixed appliances / equipment ( hand dryers , heaters etc )
My opinion Yes he thinks no
Something we don’t really do but know we really should and keep records of these tests

Your Engineer is wrong, you do need to Test fixed equipment, and it's not PATesting it's ISITEE see attachment.

 

[Pete999]

Maybe I'm missing something here but please enlighten me as how you practically would do this on sat a fixed heater fed via switched fused spur. All the PAT testers that I know of you have to plug the item into.

 

[Pete999]

Maybe I'm missing something here but please enlighten me as how you practically would do this on sat a fixed heater fed via switched fused spur. All the PAT testers that I know of you have to plug the item into.

 

[Dozer 73]

Yes pat test wrong terminology

 

[Dozer 73]

Time scale wise , we will be testing these items along with our pat test items
Not whilst carrying out conditional report as they will be picked up at different test frequency's on our testing timescale regime

 

[Pete999]

No, however I'm interested to what members do on here as I've always taken the view that portable appliances with a plug was tested with a PAT tester and fixed appliances was part of the electrical installation and done on the EICR.

When conducting an EICR you are inspecting and testing the fixed wiring, power consuming items, such as hand driers etc are NOT part of the fixed wiring, to put it in perspective would you ISITEE (PATest) during an EICR? answer not unless you have charged the client for testing these items, it's a separate job to be priced separately. Unless these tests are in the price for the EICR I can visualise the EICR being very time consuming, more than you would normally expect. The need to document all these items would add hours to an EICR.

 

[DPG]

The problem is caused almost entirely by the term 'PAT testing'. a) much of it is inspection rather than test, and b) it's not just plug-in portable equipment that needs to be tested (fridges aren't portable for instance, but need inspection/test).

As Pete says above, the correct term is ISITEE, and is governed by the code of practice. All is explained in there (well mostly all - it does leave a few things open).

Some hotels put hairdriers, trouser presses etc. on FCUs, but they are not part of the fixed wiring as such, and they need testing (or inspecting, as appropriate).

The deciding factor is not whether the item has a plug on or not.

I wish the term 'PAT test' had never been invented - I spend much time explaining things to people because of this!

 

[Dozer 73]

Yeh to be honest we refer to course as pat testing course too which is incorrect

 

[Pete999]

The problem is caused almost entirely by the term 'PAT testing'. a) much of it is inspection rather than test, and b) it's not just plug-in portable equipment that needs to be tested (fridges aren't portable for instance, but need inspection/test).

As Pete says above, the correct term is ISITEE, and is governed by the code of practice. All is explained in there (well mostly all - it does leave a few things open).

Some hotels put hairdriers, trouser presses etc. on FCUs, but they are not part of the fixed wiring as such, and they need testing (or inspecting, as appropriate).

The deciding factor is not whether the item has a plug on or not.

I wish the term 'PAT test' had never been invented - I spend much time explaining things to people because of this!

Refer to part 5 of the CoP for types of equipment, the equipment does not need to be plugged in to be tested, I would suggest to those in doubt read the CoP and inwardly digest.

 

[DPG]

Yep I agree there Pete.

 

[westward10]

The ISITEE is not a statutory document but those listed in #8 are and how you comply may lead you to this CoP.

 

[DPG]

The ISITEE is not a statutory document but those listed in #8 are and how you comply may lead you to this CoP.

Not statutory, but highly recommended to use it for guidance.

 

[Toneyz]

Got to agree the word PAT has confused the situation not just to us but the general public. Apart from any appliance with a plug on it ,please give me an idea how practically the testing is undertaken for example a wall mounted hand dryer ,heater and trouser press in hotel room.

 

[Dozer 73]

Read through the link in one of above threads , code of practise for in service inspection and testing of electrical equipment
It would involve disconnecting in spur say and test with adapter to you pat test machine , that way it gets stored with all your other equipments information if you have an advanced pat tester
Or old school , ins res test and earth cont , visual , but keep records of tests , model test sheets are in the book
Basically a real ball ache , something we are avoiding , keeps you in work I suppose

 

[Dozer 73]

Read through the link in one of above threads , code of practise for in service inspection and testing of electrical equipment
It would involve disconnecting in spur say and test with adapter to you pat test machine , that way it gets stored with all your other equipments information if you have an advanced pat tester
Or old school , ins res test and earth cont , visual , but keep records of tests , model test sheets are in the book
Basically a real ball ache , something we are avoiding , keeps you in work I suppose

Oh and apparently if your testing a microwave oven you are supposed to also have microwave leakage detector and test this too , something else we as a company overlooked

 

[Dozer 73]

Not statutory, but highly recommended to use it for guidance.

Most company’s now a days will probably state you work to these codes of practises , ours does a long list in our electrical group rules
They do issue us with these documents (some where in the van )
If there is a fire or death through electric shock created by an appliance / equipment I’m sure the house will be looking for you maintanance / test sheets for this appliance / equipment
Including mechanical inspection sheets if required by whom ever

 

[Toneyz]

Read through the link in one of above threads , code of practise for in service inspection and testing of electrical equipment
It would involve disconnecting in spur say and test with adapter to you pat test machine , that way it gets stored with all your other equipments information if you have an advanced pat tester
Or old school , ins res test and earth cont , visual , but keep records of tests , model test sheets are in the book
Basically a real ball ache , something we are avoiding , keeps you in work I suppose

I refer to your line about "old school method this is what we are doing as part of a EICR, what's the difference ?.

 

[Dozer 73]

I refer to your line about "old school method this is what we are doing as part of a EICR, what's the difference ?.

It’s the way the records are kept or ours any way on hand written sheets and the two basic tests and visual carried out
A modern testing machine stores all information , serial no’s , carries out leakage tests , carries out live functional test and stores load etc
And then prints you a cert if client requires one or your self for records

 

[Dozer 73]

Most company’s now a days will probably state you work to these codes of practises , ours does a long list in our electrical group rules
They do issue us with these documents (some where in the van )
If there is a fire or death through electric shock created by an appliance / equipment I’m sure the house will be looking for you maintanance / test sheets for this appliance / equipment
Including mechanical inspection sheets if required by whom ever

HSE not house

 

[Pete999]

Got to agree the word PAT has confused the situation not just to us but the general public. Apart from any appliance with a plug on it ,please give me an idea how practically the testing is undertaken for example a wall mounted hand dryer ,heater and trouser press in hotel room.

Read the CoP I sent you, and use your ingenuity

 

[Pete999]

Got to agree the word PAT has confused the situation not just to us but the general public. Apart from any appliance with a plug on it ,please give me an idea how practically the testing is undertaken for example a wall mounted hand dryer ,heater and trouser press in hotel room.

Ant, the old PA Testing has gone, its a different animal now large electrical items have become a test item. but you have to agree these items connected via a 13Amp spur unit are NOT part of an EICR, they are the same sort of test IR earth, continuity, and functional, but as a separate testing regime, and should be costed, planned and carried out as such.

 

[Dozer 73]

It’s the way the records are kept or ours any way on hand written sheets and the two basic tests and visual carried out
A modern testing machine stores all information , serial no’s , carries out leakage tests , carries out live functional test and stores load etc
And then prints you a cert if client requires one or your self for records

Well fixed equipment is not a portable appliance so as such cannot be Portable Appliance Tested

it was portable before you fixed it , no I did say /fixed too on original thread , good answer though lol

 

[Pete999]

it was portable before you fixed it , no I did say /fixed too on original thread , good answer though lol

That's why it aint called PA Testing any more, Westy

 

[Dozer 73]

It’s the way the records are kept or ours any way on hand written sheets and the two basic tests and visual carried out
A modern testing machine stores all information , serial no’s , carries out leakage tests , carries out live functional test and stores load etc
And then prints you a cert if client requires one or your self for records

Well fixed equipment is not a portable appliance so as such cannot be Portable Appliance Tested

it was portable before you fixed it , no I did say /fixed too on original thread , good answer though lol

That's why it aint called PA Testing any more, Westy

and what a mind numbing job it is too