Domestic Installers Course - Ummmm!!

markc123 · Oct 4, 2013

Tommy T said:
I'm not sure if you lot were born sparkys or just fear someone new coming into the industry. What are you on about? People new come into the industry all the time - and aslong as they go down the correct channels it's completley fine.

There's a lot of people who are discrediting the courses this guy wants to do and suggesting that lack of experience is more of a hinderance. And for good reason.

It's true that experience counts for a lot and that's why he is here, to ask for your experience, you all got yours from someone and who's to say he doesn't go on and get it from someone who has the belief in him that he can provide a good service. To ask for our experience, erm you don't get experience online.

Embarking on a new career takes guts and normally it's that determination that sets skilled tradespersons apart from cowboys. What? Embark on the new career, yes, but go down the correct avenue.

I've missed out the last few pages of this thread as it seems to be the same old retort so I apologise if I'm repeating what someone has said. Don't worry, theres only a select few regular visitors on here that for some reason unknown to mankind accept these courses.

I come to this Forum to see what problems people encounter and I try and solve them and see how other people solve them. I have enormous respect for the experienced people on here and their names come up again and again but please fellas, if you think that you are better than anyone else just because you have been doing it longer than anyone else then it's only a matter of time before someone is better than you. You have a post count of 9 - that's hardly helping solve peoples problems. And before you chirp up, no im not suggesting incompetence. I am sure you are a fully respected, hardworking and experienced tradesman. Nobody is thinking they are better than anyone, you are missing the point. We have spent years to train ourselves - and then someone comes and undermines us by inventing these pathetic 5week courses.

I hope the original poster is not put off, I hope we can all be a bit more humble and open to this discussion topic. I hope he is put off, because he is wasting 5k and wont be employable. Don't defend the indefenisble.

My thoughts in red.

And just a side note - Tommy, there is ways people over the age of 21 can learn without doing an apprentership. They are called night courses and give people the PROPER qualifications. The problem is they take a few years - people want the quick fix of 5weeks.

Nothing to stop them doing the proper qualifications on night courses now is there?

UNG · Oct 5, 2013

Tommy T said:
I'm not sure if you lot were born sparkys or just fear someone new coming into the industry.

It's probably fair to say that a lot of us could be termed "career sparks" who left school and did an apprenticeship and have been in the industry ever since. I have no problem with people entering the industry with proper training and a few weeks don't count

Tommy T said:
There's a lot of people who are discrediting the courses this guy wants to do and suggesting that lack of experience is more of a hinderance.

I'm still waiting for Tradeskills4U or someone else to tell me what a C&G 4141 - 01 course is as C&G don't acknowledge it's existence on their website so how can it be a recognised qualification

Tommy T said:
It's true that experience counts for a lot and that's why he is here, to ask for your experience, you all got yours from someone and who's to say he doesn't go on and get it from someone who has the belief in him that he can provide a good service.

Experience is gained from being supervised and guided on site not from a forum as some sort of distance learning exercise while assuming you are qualified

Tommy T said:
Embarking on a new career takes guts and normally it's that determination that sets skilled tradespersons apart from cowboys.

Determination & Guts = spending a lot of time and effort in gaining the correct qualifications over a number of years.

It is not throwing £4 - 5k at courses and think it is going to happen in weeks and then having a strop on here because people question your quals and experince

Tommy T said:
I've missed out the last few pages of this thread as it seems to be the same old retort so I apologise if I'm repeating what someone has said.

Could be taken both ways as you are making the same old tired comments

Tommy T said:
I come to this Forum to see what problems people encounter and I try and solve them and see how other people solve them. I have enormous respect for the experienced people on here and their names come up again and again but please fellas, if you think that you are better than anyone else just because you have been doing it longer than anyone else then it's only a matter of time before someone is better than you.

By the nature of the qualifications dished out by these 5 minute wonder training organisations and the dumbing down of the industry can you really see this happening

Tommy T said:
I hope the original poster is not put off,

If all he is going to do is a quick course then I hope he heeds the advice given and looks elsewhere for a career change or does it properly and takes the time to get real qualifications

Tommy T said:
I hope we can all be a bit more humble and open to this discussion topic.

Not sure how much more open we can be the truth is that the truth often hurts, offends and upsets it would be wrong in my opinion to put on the rose tinted glasses and treat such an issue as this without highlighting the problems and reservations we have when basic questions are asked

Tradeskills4u · Oct 7, 2013

UNG said:
I'm still waiting for Tradeskills4U or someone else to tell me what a C&G 4141 - 01 course is as C&G don't acknowledge it's existence on their website so how can it be a recognised qualification

Hi UNG,

The City & Guilds 4141-01 is a course that we developed here at Trade Skills 4U. The course is accredited by City & Guilds but is not available to other centres hence why it is not listed on the website. You can call City & Guilds to confirm this if you like.

We developed this course to train installers in the key circuits that are installed in a domestic environment and it is 5 days of hands on installation training. Full course information can be found here.

The course was accredited by City & Guilds back in 2012 almost a year to today in fact. We are very proud that the course was accredited by City and Guilds and it shows that we deliver courses of the highest quality.

The course has also been vetted by and accepted into the IET Centre of Excellence again confirming the quality of the training on offer.

This course was developed by members of our team who have years and years of installation experience. The same team members also work with City & Guilds to develop new course such as the City & Guilds 2394, 2395 and 2396 qualifications.

I am assuming despite both the IET and C&G recognising this course you will still dismiss it outright. I am not expecting to change your perspective with this post as you seem set on dismissing any course that allows people to start out in the industry.

In every industry people have to start somewhere and education happens to be where most will start. We are in the business of upskilling people and raising standards and I am still surprised just how much negativity we get on these forums.

Have a look at the full range of courses we offer. There are loads not just for new entrants but also for very experienced guys like yourself. We cater for all and don't have an agenda, we simply respond to the demands of the industry.

UNG · Oct 7, 2013

Hi Chris

Thanks for your response re the C&G 4141 - 01 course

Tradeskills4u said:
The City & Guilds 4141-01 is a course that we developed here at Trade Skills 4U. The course is accredited by City & Guilds but is not available to other centres hence why it is not listed on the website. You can call City & Guilds to confirm this if you like.

We developed this course to train installers in the key circuits that are installed in a domestic environment and it is 5 days of hands on installation training. Full course information can be found here.

Having looked at the course synopsis what can I say that is not going to be negative

A 5 Day in - house designed course with an in - house assessment at the end. I don't think I will be alone in saying that the course seems lacking both in duration and content and at a mere £509 everyone can become an "electrician" in a week

Tradeskills4u said:
The course was accredited by City & Guilds back in 2012 almost a year to today in fact. We are very proud that the course was accredited by City and Guilds and it shows that we deliver courses of the highest quality.

The course has also been vetted by and accepted into the IET Centre of Excellence again confirming the quality of the training on offer.

Whilst the quality of the training may be outstanding the content is lacking no mention of different metering arrangements (E.G. Economy 7) and central heating controls while I appreciate that this is an installation course there is no mention of fault finding or any additional courses to cover this just to highlight a few misgivings and possible oversights by your experienced team

Tradeskills4u said:
This course was developed by members of our team who have years and years of installation experience. The same team members also work with City & Guilds to develop new course such as the City & Guilds 2394, 2395 and 2396 qualifications.

I am assuming despite both the IET and C&G recognising this course you will still dismiss it outright. I am not expecting to change your perspective with this post as you seem set on dismissing any course that allows people to start out in the industry.

If you are working so closely with the C&G can I suggest you ask them to put some sort of accredited courses section on their web site and so provide a readily accessible register of accredited courses, providers and assessors

I am open to change but find it difficult to understand how people "who have years and years of installation experience" can put together a course that is so minimal and at best is at advanced DIY level from what I can see

Tradeskills4u said:
In every industry people have to start somewhere and education happens to be where most will start. We are in the business of upskilling people and raising standards and I am still surprised just how much negativity we get on these forums.

I can only agree that people have to start somewhere and on a positive note the C&G 2365 course you offer (and it's on the C&G website) actually looks to be a reasonable course as it appears to deliver a lot more theory and better prepare somebody for entry in the industry than the C&G 4141 - 01 taster course you offer

With regard to upskilling and raising standards may be all the quick course providers need to look at some of the stupid questions posted on this forum and review their training and courses accordingly this may go some way to reducing the negativity aimed at the all the quick training providers

Tradeskills4u said:
Have a look at the full range of courses we offer. There are loads not just for new entrants but also for very experienced guys like yourself. We cater for all and don't have an agenda, we simply respond to the demands of the industry.

I don't think there is any negativity to all your courses only those that produce "electricians" in a week

Is the industry really demanding this quick training as this forum in your own words is very negative towards these courses that appear to be driven by profit before conscience throughout the hierarchy of the industry IMO the 17th edition has gone along way to cover up potential fatalities from this training with the RCD's on everything policy that is now in place

Once again Chris thanks for your response and hope you better understand my misgivings but I think we will have to agree to disagree on the short courses

Darkwood · Oct 7, 2013

Another area these fast track courses and even the full courses fail to address is the saturation of the market we now have of lightly educated low experienced 'Electricians'.

The electrical industry is now so saturated with these quick route sparkies that we are seeing poor workmanship rising as well as wages crashing .... i mean why pay a competent well trained and experienced Electrician 25quid an hour when Mr 7day or 3/5 week wonder will do it at a fraction and in most cases a poor job of it .. as UNG points out the level of questions on this forum has really taken a nose dive since the introduction of fast track courses and range from everything like 'Thinking rcd's give overload protection' to 'why can't you use Earth as a circuit Neutral? The DNO do!'...... these are from qualified on paper but not competent fast track sparkies...

Im sorry but when you pedal through pass after pass with exam of multi-choice questions which can be easily tailored to increase pass rates by asking the same questions but ensuring the wrong answers are glaringly silly then this does not show a students understanding it shows he can distinguish the stupid answers and thus is left with the correct one.

I like to see you create a written exam only that commands a set of questions that can only be answered if the student has a good understanding of what he has been taught....and watch your pass rates plummet....unfortunately while profit is key and the more students the better the temptation is and has been evident is to appeal to the prospective student with a shorter course than other schemes while consistently using the term Electrician.

View the forum history and you'll find a high number of people asking the same question... i have this qualification does this make me an Electrician?.... TBH if they are asking this then these schemes are mis-selling the courses or they would be clear as to where they stood in the industry.

I don't see and training schemes reflecting the current state of the industry when taking the money off people ....domestic is saturated and the many experienced electricians are looking for work so how about for warning the students about the reality of things hence thats why Training with an apprenticeship works because if you cant find anyone to take you on then you cant do the course... a self regulating system that has been torn apart for greed.