ECA and ESC announce major partnership

[Engineer54]

What should the public look out for or ask when they are looking for a person to do some work on their house? I dont fully know...

Exactly my point!!

 

[Silly Sausage]

While you're on the subject on training & education in Britain, check this out...
BBC News - Heavy metal degree is a 'waste of time' claim campaigners !
I mean, come on, the whole thing is becoming a total farce!!!

 

[Engineer54]

While you're on the subject on training & education in Britain, check this out...
BBC News - Heavy metal degree is a 'waste of time' claim campaigners !
I mean, come on, the whole thing is becoming a total farce!!!

Far too many easy option Degree's out there, in daft subjects that are basically good for nothing. They should be whittled right back, to make more room for the meaningful occupational Degree courses, that both the employers and students need, as well as the country as a whole!!!!

 

[Spoon]

Thanks for the reply Eng54 but it was a genuine question.
So people. What do you think the general public should look out for and ask when wanting an electrician?
There is not much point in us saying that the public dont know what to do if we are not going to teach them.

 

[Engineer54]

Thanks for the reply Eng54 but it was a genuine question.
So people. What do you think the general public should look out for and ask when wanting an electrician?
There is not much point in us saying that the public dont know what to do if we are not going to teach them.

I know, and so was my reply.

Other than asking the electrician straight out and hoping for an honest answer, not much else, as far as i can see. You could i suppose ask to see his qualifications and note the numbers and the dates, but i'm not sure how many electricians would wear that!! lol!!


As i say the public have been sold a pup, as much as the qualified electrician has by the scheme providers, and their laughing all the way to the bank!!

 

[Geordie Spark]

I know, and so was my reply.

Other than asking the electrician straight out and hoping for an honest answer, not much else, as far as i can see. You could i suppose ask to see his qualifications and note the numbers and the dates, but i'm not sure how many electricians would wear that!! lol!!


As i say the public have been sold a pup, as much as the qualified electrician has by the scheme providers, and their laughing all the way to the bank!!

Back in the day, I was CORGI registered and had the card to prove it.

Customers are supposed to ask to see it before letting you loose on their property.

I can honestly say I was NEVER asked by a customer if I had one.

 

[KingKenny]

If you don't have an issue, you dam well should!! And if for nothing else for the very reasons you give in your post!!

Limited scope is what the plumbers and kitchen fitters have, NOT the 17 day/Electrical Trainee fast track guys. They can undertake any domestic work they choose!! ...And that only relates to Domestic, so these wannabees can undertake any commercial and or industrial work they want to, as they don't have any restrictions in these areas, except for the word ''Competent''!! Far too many actually think they are fully qualified, and as such competent too. You get these guy's coming on here stating that they will only take on work within their limitations, ...personally i don't believe a word of it!!

The public have no idea who they are employing, as these scheme providers tar all it's registered members with the same make believe title of ''Domestic Installer''. I believe the public has been taken for as much of a ride, as the trained electricians have, with this Part Pee crap and the rise of the training centres that basically serve to boost the revenue of the scheme providers....

No we have to put an end to these fast track training centres, and as soon as feasibly possible too!!

I guarantee you, 100%, that if a job is outside my comfortable ability to understand, action and test, I won't take it on.

 

[Knobhead]

I guarantee you, 100%, that if a job is outside my comfortable ability to understand, action and test, I won't take it on.

I applaud you if you stick to that resolution.

I’d be happier if you were legally bound to it.

There are far too many that think they can tackle the world, they need legally restraining!

 

[Engineer54]

I applaud you if you stick to that resolution.

I’d be happier if you were legally bound to it.

There are far too many that think they can tackle the world, they need legally restraining!

I think Tony has hit the nail squarely on the head with the hammer on this one.

 

[imago]

I applaud you if you stick to that resolution.

I’d be happier if you were legally bound to it.

There are far too many that think they can tackle the world, they need legally restraining!

I can't argue with that to be honest.

 

[Leckie]

It seems to me reading this thread that many people hate all the schemes. Others want a central, enforced scheme that you have to belong to in order to carry out electrical work. Someone suggested the JIB might be the best organisation to be in charge of this.

The JIB are in charge of issuing the ECS cards.

I wonder how many of you do not qualify for an ECS card as an electrician and yet work as electricians? I know of lots, and they can't work on sites but can do all other aspects. So be careful what you wish for because it might be that if a scheme was operated with the same qualification criteria as for the ECS card, you may not be able to work as an electrician. Perhaps guys with here own business's having to shut up shop. It doesn't bother me as I have all the necessary qualifications, but many have not. Lots of plumbers are not allowed to work on gas.

 

[oldtimer]

Its not a question of hating the Schemies as I call them i have been in the industry for 38 years and have done a lot of building maintenance where a term caused Cause and Effect is used ie put the wrong type of bearings in an electric motor and watch them fail 6 months later and its the same with the Schemies ie have they made the situation any better and reading a lot of posts on here the answer appears to be a clear no as for JIB or SJIB the reason they are muted as say a central registration agency is because they have been doing the job since the year dot plus it could be added to with customers logging on to see if the individual who has quoted for work is qualified,insured etc.

Remember Part P has been watered down and the House of Commons recent enquiry into it has said the Schemes have a clear Conflict of Interests here or in other words they are profiting by their actions so how are they meant to be policing a system when they are clearly profiting by their actions instead of maintaining standards they will sign up anything with a heartbeat yet they will not take away a registration for bad workmanship . I personally have witnessed this when an individual should have had the book thrown at him instead they said he had to resit his 17th edition O well thats ok then better to let some idiot run wild than lose his subs.

 

[Leckie]

Hi OT

I would not disagree that the JIB would be a good choice of an organisation to run a national register, I am merely saying that for many, there criteria for qualification based on there present requirements for an ESC card may exempt many from actually being qualified for this registration, NVQ, etc. So many that are presently working as electricians may only be able to get a card saying "electrical Improver" or similar. As I said, it doesn't affect me as I have all the qualifications, but it would affect many I know and probably many on this forum. That's why I said people should be careful what they wish for.

Personally, I would be happy if was all tightened up, but you would still need ongoing assessments. I've been an ECA/NICEIC member for many years, way before part p came along, and it used to be far more stringent to be a member back then. Now the part p schemes have become a financial competition to attract memberships and as you say, they aren't going to throw out paying customers until a place catches fire!

So in summary, I am in favour of stricter controls and higher standards and entry requirements in order to be registered to the schemes. But many contractors might not be in favour as they wouldn't be able to continue trading.

 

[oldtimer]

Well there is nothing I would disagree with you their I had a problem with my National Insurance number ie the letter at the end was changed to a A instead of a D I called HMRC and they said no worries as it does not get used anyway but SJIB freaked out wanting all sorts of info.

The thing is the genie is out of the bottle here and the Schemies aint or no longer can change it as just like the banks and private equaty companies Sales are king and forget standards as previously mentioned about the individual having to resit his 17th just makes a mockery of what we should be doing we are not talking about screwing up one job we are talking multiple jobs that basically should have condemmed his fate as for me I just got more cynical but a guy who was in the same Scheme was horrified

 

[SPARTYKUS]

It'll never happen! Too much money being made.


head down, grit teeth. Carry on

 

[Leckie]

I was really trying to get to the reason why many seem to moan about schemes when if a more rigorous system were to be imposed, many would no longer be electricians.

 

[oldtimer]

I was really trying to get to the reason why many seem to moan about schemes when if a more rigorous system were to be imposed, many would no longer be electricians.

Well no I dont think so because people just want a grown up common sense approach and not a snotty nose kid pulling you up because he knows he can and treating you like a herion addict cos they have you hooked on the need to wear that badge with pride as long as you keep paying the subs.

Also tell me how did electricians ever survive before the Schemies arrived on the scene they must have been insecure little souls who had to be teased out their van with a custard cream and a cup o tea. The first rule of a control freak is to make your victim think they cannot live another day without you . Cynical I know but at least my feet are still on the ground

 

[Leckie]

So you think there should be no schemes, no Eca, etc?

 

[Knobhead]

The schemes and NIC need clearing out as soon as possible. They are self serving and profit motivated. The C&G are guilty of selling qualifications.

This country has to adopt a national register as other countries have. It will get rid of the incompetent DI’s and P*** poor want to be electricians.

The IET are incapable of controlling such a scheme, they are profit orientated. Hence the issuing of total revisions to the regulations, instead of addendums.
The NIC, is again profit orientated and so not worthy, not that I ever gave them any professional credence.

You lot made this pile of **** by pure indolence. It’s time you dug your way out by first getting rid of the parasites feeding on you.
.

St Jude is the patron of lost causes, it’s about time you all started lighting candles.

A once proud trade is now that lost cause.

 

[oldtimer]

So you think there should be no schemes, no Eca, etc?

I think the Schemies should be reigned in and start doing the job they are meant to do ie uphold standards and police their members instead as Tony pointed out they are pure profit merchants and all at the cost of a once good trade that yes had the odd cowboy but now its like the Bl00dy wild west as they badge the cowboys as marshals.

For the younger sparks who have known nothing else then they are dependant on a Scheme that in some cases cannot rule their lives on a pretence that they will be ejected from the trade where in fact they are nothing more than cash cows for them.

Also remember there was not thousands of deaths that brought Part P or the Schemes into existance it was technology of better RCDs that helped them grasp the moment due to an MPs daughter who sadly died yet why did they not take up the cause of the refuse collectors daughter who died under the same circumstances.

Dont forget they know they have screwed up so what are they doing about it well NICEIC will merge with some other Scheme and call themselves Certsure so you tell me who is being cynical now.

I run my business on referral and customer feedback just like they did in the olden days if I mess them about they will vote with their feet and if they ask me to cut corners I respectivly have to decline and thats how it has always worked as Joe Public already given feedback on all of those confusing Schemes a bit like do I want a polo shirt with a tick on it for £25 or a similar one without the tick for £10 that does the same job and will last the same length of time. So if you are a scheme member then remember you are the customer and you should be asking what they are doing to clean up the trade if note then vote with your feet