EICRs and LANDLORDS

[Merv]

^^^Like failing to tighten a connection properly and then finding themselves in court to answer a charge of failing to ensure the safety of tenants.
How do you feel about that?
Because that's the road you are going down.

 

[Merv]

It's hard work typing on this forum.
After a few lines it all goes to pot.

 

[Merv]

''Why should a tenant have to have all their appliances checked just to please you''

Why, aren't you interested in safety?
It certainly doesn't seem like it from that.

 

[Andy78]

Andy 78,
''you don't seem to be open to alternative ideas''

How do you make that out when none have been proposed?

I'm not against EICRs.
It's the criminalising of landlords for not having them that I oppose.

How would electricians feel about someone checking their work, and fining them for any mistakes?
Because that is the ultimate end to this type of legislation.

The alternative view would be that the initiative is borne out of an idea of safety and not money making, but like I said, you don't seem very receptive to that idea. I can't say I blame you though. There are many money making rackets involved in the electrical industry. As a landlord you actually get off quite lightly compared to electricians.... lol.
I would be quite open to having my work checked, and I do, on an annual basis as part of my scheme membership.

I am sure you are a conscientious landlord and make sure your properties are safe for rental, but there are absolutely bundles out there that could not care less, do the absolute minimum required, and some even less than that. Any legislation in Scotland and any future legislation in other areas is surely aimed at bringing these types of landlords up to standard and not on creating an excuse to fine landlords ?

 

[UNG]

Andy 78,
''you don't seem to be open to alternative ideas''

How do you make that out when none have been proposed?

I'm not against EICRs.
It's the criminalising of landlords for not having them that I oppose.

How would electricians feel about someone checking their work, and fining them for any mistakes?
Because that is the ultimate end to this type of legislation.

So you want to increase your costs even more with another level of inspection beyond what is already there

I think most electricians would agree that any mistakes in our work that result in serious injury or a fatality could ultimately land us in a court of law explaining our actions potentially resulting in a large fine and / or a stay at one of Her Majesty's hotels we don't see an EICR as an unecessary expense

Your drum banging on here is futile IMO as the law has changed to force all landlords to toe the line you had your chance to raise the standard now you are being forced to by your own lack of action and you are trying to blame others for your failure to act on the warnings

 

[Merv]

Like I said
The law is already in place to protect tenants.
Ripping off good landlords simply to boost the income ofelectrical contractors is not the way to go.
I suppose if the legislation can be pushed through in theprivate rental sector, then the self servers can turn their attention toforcing all private residential properties in to having a current EICP as well.


It'll be like it used to be with MOTs.

£25 for an MOT if you bring your car.

£50 if you don't.

 

[Merv]

UNG - no.

I'm saying that any mistake you make would land you in courtregardless if anyone got hurt or not.
That's what you propose to do with your legislation againstlandlords.

How would you feel about that. Hoist by your own petard perhaps?

 

[Andy78]

Merv, you obviously have a bee in your bonnet about this, but like UNG says, your whining is pointed in the wrong direction.
Petition the law makers, do something positive, make a difference.

 

[Hellmooth]

Do you disagree with having to get a gas cert every year?

 

[Deleted member 26818]

My Local Council will not accept an EICR for a property they intend leasing, if it is issued by someone not registered with a Competent Persons Scheme. The fact that inspection and testing does not fall under Part P not withstanding.
However they will accept a Visual Report from someone registered with the NICEIC.
The Council Website page which deals with them leasing properties and their requirements, states they will only accept reports from persons registered with the NICEIC, though on the phone, they agree that anyone registered with one of the government approved Competent Persons Schemes will be acceptable.

Apart from safety, my main concern, is that some unscrupulous electricians would use the EICRs to drum up business.
As it stands, other than Trading Standards there is little anyone can do about dodgey reports.
I recall one report which stated that an upper floor flT wired to the 16th edition, was unsatisfactory due to there being no RCDs in the Consumer Unit, no labels on the CU, and that further investigation (by another) was required to identify an unknown circuit.
The quote which accompanied the report was for about £350 to replace the CU, with another £250 to rectify the defects.

 

[Octopus]

Like I said
The law is already in place to protect tenants.
Ripping off good landlords simply to boost the income of electrical contractors is not the way to go.
I suppose if the legislation can be pushed through in theprivate rental sector, then the self servers can turn their attention toforcing all private residential properties in to having a current EICP as well.


It'll be like it used to be with MOTs.

£25 for an MOT if you bring your car.

£50 if you don't.

Do you really think that?

So you pay, say about £200 notes for an EICR every 5 years - that's £40 per year on your costs, or £3.34 per month. If your rental income can't cover that you need to either increase your rent, or sell up and invest else where.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

There is a world of difference between Gas and Electrics.
Usually there is one or perhaps 2 gas appliance which need checking, Boiler and Cooker.
The test required are for gas leases, correct combustion and correct flue operation.
There is no need to go checking in lofts, cellars or outbuildings
No need to disconnect anything, or check that there are no sensitive equipment connected before conducting any tests.
No need to check old editions to consider whether something not allowed today, is acceptable, because it was allowed back in Nineteen Canteen.

 

[Darkwood]

Why do my posts come out with some of the words joined up?

They're not like that when I hit the reply button.

Are you manually typing the posts or copy and pasting sections ... sometimes copy and paste can become disrupted if it is sourced elsewhere.

 

[Dave OCD]

Like I said
The law is already in place to protect tenants.
Ripping off good landlords simply to boost the income ofelectrical contractors is not the way to go.
I suppose if the legislation can be pushed through in theprivate rental sector, then the self servers can turn their attention toforcing all private residential properties in to having a current EICP as well.


It'll be like it used to be with MOTs.

£25 for an MOT if you bring your car.

£50 if you don't.

To me that's actually rather insulting Merv , in fact your MOT comparison says quite a lot about you I think, the vast majority of qualified electricians are honest, hard working and conscientious. I don't know where you go [or don't go] for MOTs but if you were willing to accept or actively encouraged an electrical report from someone who hadn't even visited the property in question you would deserve to be prosecuted !

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Yep, never had to pay that much.

 

[UNG]

UNG - no.

I'm saying that any mistake you make would land you in courtregardless if anyone got hurt or not.
That's what you propose to do with your legislation againstlandlords.

How would you feel about that. Hoist by your own petard perhaps?

I really think you are a troll

How many times do you have to be told that the legislation you are so against is a result of unscrupulous landlords who believe renting hovels is an acceptable method of generating income and not electricians who you seem to despise, a side effect is that this legislation requires the landlord to have the electrical installations checked in the property they wish to let unfortunately electricians don't do this for free and therefore make money from the transaction which seems to cause more friction with yourself

 

[Hellmooth]

There is a world of difference between Gas and Electrics.
Usually there is one or perhaps 2 gas appliance which need checking, Boiler and Cooker.
The test required are for gas leases, correct combustion and correct flue operation.
There is no need to go checking in lofts, cellars or outbuildings
No need to disconnect anything, or check that there are no sensitive equipment connected before conducting any tests.
No need to check old editions to consider whether something not allowed today, is acceptable, because it was allowed back in Nineteen Canteen.

I'm missing your point here?

A friend of mine does lots of gas certs, he's in and out within 30-60 mins max and charges £47 for the pleasure, so as Murdoch pointed out about £40 a year, no difference to making sure the electrical system is safe!

 

[Deleted member 26818]

The point being, that there are a set number of tests which are required for a Gas Cert, and usually a fixed price to carry them out.
Whereas with an Electrical Report, there are no set tests, it is entirely up to the Inspector which tests if any are required.
Another problem, is that there is no Statutory requirement for an Inspector to be qualified, nor is there a code of practice for them to follow.
Add to that all the qualified Inspectors who have to come onto forums for guidance relating to which code should be applied for certain situations.
The current situation does not install confidence that any report will be worth the paper it is written on.

 

[Hellmooth]

The point being, that there are a set number of tests which are required for a Gas Cert, and usually a fixed price to carry them out.
Whereas with an Electrical Report, there are no set tests, it is entirely up to the Inspector which tests if any are required.
Another problem, is that there is no Statutory requirement for an Inspector to be qualified, nor is there a code of practice for them to follow.
Add to that all the qualified Inspectors who have to come onto forums for guidance relating to which code should be applied for certain situations.
The current situation does not install confidence that any report will be worth the paper it is written on.

So as there is people out there not doing eicr's up to scratch, they should be done away with?

 

[Deleted member 26818]

The people producing dodgey reports, or EICRs in general?