EICRs and LANDLORDS

[Fox]

Can someone please give this lad a temporary break. I'm getting bored with this drivel taking up my feed - judging by previous posts he's been on the same war path for 3 years

 

[Merv]

Can someone please give this lad a temporary break. I'm getting bored with this drivel taking up my feed - judging by previous posts he's been on the same war path for 3 years

Come on Fox, surely you can do better than that.
Perhaps if you examined the issues instead of the people discussing them you might not get so bored.

 

[Octopus]

Paul,
Sorry for the delay in answering.

A money-spinner is a source of profit.
So unless EICRs are handed out free, or charged at cost only by those you term as ''TRUE'' Electricians,'' then I think the term money-spinner is appropriate for EICRs.
What more can there be to explain?

On what basis exactly?

Come on matey just list the reasons so we can have a reasonable debate....

 

[Merv]

Murdoch.

Surely you can grasp something as simple as that.
Are you trying to send me up?

Here it is again anyway - ''A money-spinner is a source of profit.''

 

[Paul.M]

Can someone please give this lad a temporary break.

eerrmm,,, tempted but we will continue with the conversation (for now).

Paul,
Sorry for the delay in answering.

No worries Merv, I've been too busy doing EICR's for student landlords at a reasonable price to busy log on and reply whilst you have 110 to do lol.

A money-spinner is a source of profit. So unless EICRs are handed out free, or charged at cost only by those you term as ''TRUE'' Electricians,'' then I think the term money-spinner is appropriate for EICRs.
What more can there be to explain?

EICR's are not "money-spinners". They are a safety check regulated by the IET & BSI, not part P. Look into the history of part P, it was designed to give kitchen fitters the ability to add or extend a circuit (in a nutshell).


Ok lets look at it this way.... Last year (from the top of my head) there were 14 electrical deaths in the UK reported by the HSE. A few of them were in rented domestic properties and due to bad installs and not checked by a qualified electrician. Question for you...... How many millions of properties within the UK are rented? If they are managed correctly by the owner there should not be any problems. The price of this service is nothing compared to someones life.




ps... sort your software out. After quoting your post I can see the problems you have got. What are you using? A Spectrum ZX81 or a Amstrad CPC464????

 

[Andy78]

I seem to have caused some offence to a few on here judging by their personal comments towards me. I shan't waste my time answering them.

That is not the way to debate issues.

You've entered this thread and called electricians rip off merchants, accused forum members and electricians in general of being instrumental in lobbying to change legislation for their own profit .. something that has no basis in fact... and accused out trade in general of having no interest in customer's safety and only in money. If you can't see those remarks as personal and inflammatory then you need to check yourself.

It also appears that my point about mandatory EICRs has been spectacularly missed by more than one, and they think I have something against safety and EICRs.
This is not my view at all.

I see EICRs as insurance against certain litigation where landlords are concerned.

Wrong, they are an assessment of the safety of an installation and it's continued use.

Sensible landlords already ensure they have one for every property they let.
They're cheap enough anyway if you know where to get them from.

Could you tell us how cheap you get them for and how long each one takes to be performed ? I ask as the cheapest ones can sometimes be works of pure fiction and have no bearing on the safety of an installation.

What I'm against is forcing landlords to jump through hoops and criminalizing those who get caught out by the red tape and petty rules that invariably go with any legislation that requires action to avoid prosecution.

Part P was a Godsend to the electrical trade in general with the extra work it has created, and for trivial gains in safety. If any at all in most cases.

This proves you know nothing about our trade. What gains in extra work followed the creation of part P and what proof do you have to support this ? All part P did was water down the skillset in our trade and increase costs for electricians which then had to be passed on to customers.

That's why this government has watered down some of the legislation concerning Part P. and are soft on enforcement.
Notifying work done and logging it all down at the council offices for God's sake - how ridiculous can you get in wasting time and money?
Yet it still exits

The inconvenience and time wasting is generally only experienced by electricians.

I see compulsory EICRs in the same vein as writing Part P.into law.
And the shouts for enforcement of it, as simple greed from the vested interest who would profit from the legislation as they have done from the introduction of Part P. as it stands.

You'll find that the schemes would be instrumental in calling for changes in legislation and not electricians in general. As you have already been told, you are barking up the wrong tree here.


By the way, you're not dealing with John Prescott in government now.

Paul,
Sorry for the delay in answering.

A money-spinner is a source of profit.
So unless EICRs are handed out free, or charged at cost only by those you term as ''TRUE'' Electricians,'' then I think the term money-spinner is appropriate for EICRs.
What more can there be to explain?

By that logic any true landlord should offer accommodation for free or at cost because they should be only concerned about people having places to stay. Any profit made from being a landlord must make them rip off merchants out to profiteer off the back of tenants. What a money spinner eh ?

......

 

[shanky887614]

Murdoch.

Surely you can grasp something as simple as that.
Are you trying to send me up?

Here it is again anyway - ''A money-spinner is a source of profit.''

have you even looked at an eicr form? it doesnt take 5mins to fill them in you know

 

[Merv]

Mine does the same. Try clicking the A/A icon button on the left of the icon bar - this should cure it. Daz

Thanks DPG. That's done the trick.

 

[Dave OCD]

I seem to have caused some offence to a few on here judging by their personal comments towards me. I shan't waste my time answering them.

That is not the way to debate issues.


It also appears that my point about mandatory EICRs has been spectacularly missed by more than one, and they think I have something against safety and EICRs.
This is not my view at all.

I see EICRs as insurance against certain litigation where landlords are concerned.

Sensible landlords already ensure they have one for every property they let.
They're cheap enough anyway if you know where to get them from.

What I'm against is forcing landlords to jump through hoops and criminalizing those who get caught out by the red tape and petty rules that invariably go with any legislation that requires action to avoid prosecution.

Part P was a Godsend to the electrical trade in general with the extra work it has created, and for trivial gains in safety. If any at all in most cases.
That's why this government has watered down some of the legislation concerning Part P. and are soft on enforcement.
Notifying work done and logging it all down at the council offices for God's sake - how ridiculous can you get in wasting time and money?
Yet it still exits

I see compulsory EICRs in the same vein as writing Part P.into law.
And the shouts for enforcement of it, as simple greed from the vested interest who would profit from the legislation as they have done from the introduction of Part P. as it stands.

By the way, you're not dealing with John Prescott in government now.

Cheap is always best eh Merv ? Does the dodgy mechanic who does MOTs remote from your car also do remote EICRs for you - buy one get one free ?:laugh3:

 

[Octopus]

Murdoch.

Surely you can grasp something as simple as that.
Are you trying to send me up?

Here it is again anyway - ''A money-spinner is a source of profit.''

Based on what?

I do about 1 x EICR per month..

 

[Merv]

''EICR's are not "money-spinners".

Paul,
If you disagree with my definition of the term money-spinner then I suggest you take it up with the Oxford dictionary.

 

[Merv]

''Can someone please give this lad a temporary break.''

eerrmm,,, tempted but we will continue with the conversation (for now).

Well that's the first time I've been bullied by a moderator on a forum for disagreeing with him.

Lol.

 

[Octopus]

So is having your car MOT'ed every 12 months once its 3 years old a money spinner for garages?

 

[Paul.M]

''Can someone please give this lad a temporary break.''

eerrmm,,, tempted but we will continue with the conversation (for now).

Well that's the first time I've been bullied by a moderator on a forum for disagreeing with him.

Lol.

This is not "bullying by a Mod". This is an Electrician posting up on a forum that just happens to be a member of staff. I am a member after all with his own views and opinions. Any debate that I get involved in will not be judged by myself in the staff room (unfair tbh).

If you feel like you have been bullied, I need to report your post and bring it to the Mods & Admins attention. It will be monitored from now. Any complaints, please send any other member of staff a PM.


ps. How many electricians on here make a million quid a year by doing EICR's? = NONE.

 

[shanky887614]

eicr's are cheap your paying for the time and not for loads of material's.

different companies charge different amounts to cover there own costs and a little extra to make it worthwhile

 

[Darkwood]

Merv - Im speaking as a Mod and not a member posting opinions...

Checking you profile you have been a member for nearly 5yrs, you have 30+ posts to your credit over this time reviewing these posts it seems to be a running theme that your are out to grind an axe as you repeatedly show a distaste for the Electrical trade and those who are part of it, now for whatever reason I don't particularly care but you are very quick to categorise and paint the whole trade with the same tainted brush that somehow has edged you to have such opinions, I see throughout this thread that members have given you very valid reasons to some of your complaints about the thread topic but you relentlessly seem ignorant to take these points on board and stubbornly troll out the same repeated viewpoint.

There are good Electricians and bad ones just like there are good Landlords and bad ones so to say we are all out to rip customers off with in your view 'needless certificates' is shortsighted and offensive, the majority of the trade has pride in their workmanship, has respect for their customers safety and that off the property too, and to protect our own backsides issuing a cert' is the only way we can leave a paper trail to ensure if the unfortunate day ever arose and found ourself in court then we could present some form of proof we had complied to regulations and tested our work as safe... on that note it should also be the duty of any landlord to also ensure his tenants are safe within his property re' the Electrical installation and any existing appliances, yes you can say a property is safe all you want but unkess you have the papertrail of proof that you regularly ensure the condition of the electrics hasn't been compromised by say a previous tenant or the condition hasn't naturally deteriated then you wouldn't have a leg to stand on in court.

Merv - your approach is far from having an open minded debate, you seem set to remain stubborn in your views regardless of any advice or replies this is evident throughtout your post history where the theme has been having a pop at the trade or members, normal debates evolve and move on as viewpoints are expressed, this is not the case with this thread, we are all for a good debate but there is a distinct line between having a good debate and holdng strong views and that of trolling, baiting members and causing keyboard conflicts and IMHO you are now doing that.

It would be in your interest to consider how you post in future and be more open to reason, it will wind members up when you claim that they are out to rip customers off when all we are doing is complying to requests from various people be it estate agents, insurance requests etc to check and installation and report on its condition ... we do not go around knocking on your door saying you have to have your property tested or else.

 

[DPG]

Very well put Darkwood. Summed up nicely. Daz

 

[Hellmooth]

Merv - Im speaking as a Mod and not a member posting opinions...

Checking you profile you have been a member for nearly 5yrs, you have 30+ posts to your credit over this time reviewing these posts it seems to be a running theme that your are out to grind an axe as you repeatedly show a distaste for the Electrical trade and those who are part of it, now for whatever reason I don't particularly care but you are very quick to categorise and paint the whole trade with the same tainted brush that somehow has edged you to have such opinions, I see throughout this thread that members have given you very valid reasons to some of your complaints about the thread topic but you relentlessly seem ignorant to take these points on board and stubbornly troll out the same repeated viewpoint.

There are good Electricians and bad ones just like there are good Landlords and bad ones so to say we are all out to rip customers off with in your view 'needless certificates' is shortsighted and offensive, the majority of the trade has pride in their workmanship, has respect for their customers safety and that off the property too, and to protect our own backsides issuing a cert' is the only way we can leave a paper trail to ensure if the unfortunate day ever arose and found ourself in court then we could present some form of proof we had complied to regulations and tested our work as safe... on that note it should also be the duty of any landlord to also ensure his tenants are safe within his property re' the Electrical installation and any existing appliances, yes you can say a property is safe all you want but unkess you have the papertrail of proof that you regularly ensure the condition of the electrics hasn't been compromised by say a previous tenant or the condition hasn't naturally deteriated then you wouldn't have a leg to stand on in court.

Merv - your approach is far from having an open minded debate, you seem set to remain stubborn in your views regardless of any advice or replies this is evident throughtout your post history where the theme has been having a pop at the trade or members, normal debates evolve and move on as viewpoints are expressed, this is not the case with this thread, we are all for a good debate but there is a distinct line between having a good debate and holdng strong views and that of trolling, baiting members and causing keyboard conflicts and IMHO you are now doing that.

It would be in your interest to consider how you post in future and be more open to reason, it will wind members up when you claim that they are out to rip customers off when all we are doing is complying to requests from various people be it estate agents, insurance requests etc to check and installation and report on its condition ... we do not go around knocking on your door saying you have to have your property tested or else.

Amen to that!

 

[Merv]

It's remarkable how posts get misunderstood and posters get misrepresentedon forums.
Take darkwood's last effort where I am the target of his grandstanding.

As an example:
'we are all out to rip customers off with in your view'needless certificates'


I've never written anything like that

All that nonsense about me and even after I'd posted this earlier:


''It also appears that my point about mandatory EICRs has been spectacularly missedby more than one, and they think I have something against safety and EICRs.
This is not myview at all.

I see EICRs asinsurance against certain litigation where landlords are concerned.

Sensiblelandlords already ensure they have one for every property they let.
They're cheapenough anyway if you know where to get them from.''


And then there's this tripe from Andy78,

You've entered this thread and called electricians ripoff merchants

Can you point out where I've referred to electricians as ''ripoff merchants'' please?

 

[Hellmooth]

Not even worth wasting the time.............that's all folks!