European Sockets

[Resu]

Hi all, my mum runs a B&B and has a lot of issues with European guests forgetting adapters, etc. and was wondering if fitting a European socket in the house would be ok? I'm yet to confirm the actual voltage in her house but can't see anything wrong otherwise? She's provided adapters in the past but these have all disappeared!

Found this and was wondering if anyone has fitted anything similar?

Cheers

 

[Rockingit]

It's an interesting question, this. Gimme 10 with my head in the book.

 

[Sintra]

Personally I wouldn't install these in the UK. We use MK euro sockets for jobs overseas but always have to sign a declaration that they aren't being used in the UK. Another to thing to think about is the double pole protection required for these outlets.

IMO she would be better buying adaptors in bulk and selling them to the guests.

 

[Rockingit]

511 Suggests that it would be fine, so long as the level of safety is no lower than the applicable British Standard. So, make sure you get Earthed Schuko's and I guess you'll be fine.

 

[Rockingit]

Personally I wouldn't install these in the UK. We use MK euro sockets for jobs overseas but always have to sign a declaration that they aren't being used in the UK. Another to thing to think about is the double pole protection required for these outlets.

IMO she would be better buying adaptors in bulk and selling them to the guests.

You can get DP switched schuko outlets, but then you can also install el-cheapo UK outlets that are only SP.

 

[Sintra]

Never seen one that has been switched lol. What I'm referring to is double pole protection at the consumer unit due to the fact of polarity.

 

[Resu]

I'll look into earthed "Schukos" with DP switches but Sintra might be onto something with the buying in bulk & selling idea. Least then she'd be covered should something go wrong!

 

[dragon-av]

Interesting KingShield Schuko converter Black 13A at UK Electrical Supplies

come fitted as standard to a lot of kit and can be plugged into any UK socket regardless of polarity....

 

[Schneker]

She's provided adapters in the past but these have all disappeared!

Hi mate would it not be a lot easier to charge a refundable deposit?

 

[Lucien Nunes]

Plugging an appliance into a proper Schuko socket is safer than using a travel adaptor in a UK socket, because most travel adaptors are poorly made and offer erratic contact and sometimes no earthing.

Don't forget that some European countries use plugs that will not fit a Schuko socket, although many portable appliances will have a 2-pin Euro plug that will fit any European socket. Schuko (with the side earth contacts) is the most universal.

double pole protection at the consumer unit due to the fact of polarity.

Why?

 

[Rockingit]

I guess the polarity issue is taken care of within the appliance, and also that when they are earthed plugs (but they're not normally fitted on the type of items a traveler is likely to have) then they are polarised by default.

 

[mayfair]

Yet to confirm the voltage in her house ......can you explain this a bit please

 

[Lucien Nunes]

also that when they are earthed plugs (but they're not normally fitted on the type of items a traveler is likely to have) then they are polarised by default.

Not in the case of Schuko which is 100% reversible, nor Italian which has the earth pin in the middle. Other European types have an offset earth pin (e.g. Swiss, Danish) or receptacle (French) so they are polarised. Schuko was designed when many German SP supplies were derived from 220V delta, both lives were lines so there was no point in polarising.

 

[Rockingit]

Not in the case of Schuko which is 100% reversible, nor Italian which has the earth pin in the middle. Other European types have an offset earth pin (e.g. Swiss, Danish) or receptacle (French) so they are polarised. Schuko was designed when many German SP supplies were derived from 220V delta, both lives were lines so there was no point in polarising.

OK.... I'm learning things now! I thought Schuko/Euro (as in, 2 x round pins) were basically one and the same?

 

[Lucien Nunes]

Schuko stands for Schutz-Kontakt i.e. Protective Contact, and refers to the two earthing contacts at the side of the socket that grip two metal strips in the plug. A 2-pin socket without these is not a Schuko socket.

For lots more info see Oof Oud's excellent website:Museum of Plugs and Sockets: home page

 

[Pete999]

You could be in trouble doing what you suggest, we buy 110v sockets from MK and have to confirm in writing where and how they are installed, remember the continentals wire their sockets differently to us no RFCs over there, mostly DP RCBOs and the likes

 

[Rockingit]

You could be in trouble doing what you suggest, we buy 110v sockets from MK and have to confirm in writing where and how they are installed, remember the continentals wire their sockets differently to us no RFCs over there, mostly DP RCBOs and the likes

I'm taking it for granted that the OP would only fit these on a fused spur regardless. And it's not 110, it's 230V 'standardised' across Europe.

 

[mayfair]

One things for sure never had a good schuko plug all a pain in the butt to put on ...hate them

 

[Resu]

Yet to confirm the voltage in her house ......can you explain this a bit please

Correct me if I am wrong but across the UK the voltage ranges above and below the 240v mark. My thoughts being she might have been better off had it been nearer 230v, therefore closer to 220v. I have measured a voltage of 254v in a domestic property not far from her house (was reported).

 

[bigdavs83]

The official voltage rating in the uk is 230v + or - 10% so you can actually get between 207v to 253v but as most of us know it's pretty much hovering around the 240v as it has for years

 

[Engineer54]

If you do decide to install schuko outlets into your parents guest rooms, remember you will need the 47mm deep back boxes to accommodate them. Oh, and you'll also find that the terminals are just about large enough to accommodate 2 X 2.5mm conductors and no more, they are tiny!! lol!!

 

[Pete999]

I'm taking it for granted that the OP would only fit these on a fused spur regardless. And it's not 110, it's 230V 'standardised' across Europe.

Didn't say I was fitting 110v sockets in Europe did I, I just said that when we buy 110v sockets to fit in countries where they have 110v we have to confirm where we are fitting them

 

[telectrix]

buy adapters at £3 each. charge guests £5 deposit. if they nick them, you're £2 in profit.

 

[amckay]

My old dear has just got a place in Spain to rent out to holiday makers. Can anyone advise on where I can download Spanish regs (for free) as she wants British socket outlets next to the Spanish ones in bedrooms and livingroom for people with iPods hairdryers straighteners etc
Or does anyone know if its just an outright no. I've seen it before when I lived in Spain (before I trained as an electrician) but not sure if it was kosher!

 

[telectrix]

mayfair is your forum expert on spanish procedures.

 

[amckay]

Thanks tel

 

[Resu]

My old dear has just got a place in Spain to rent out to holiday makers. Can anyone advise on where I can download Spanish regs (for free) as she wants British socket outlets next to the Spanish ones in bedrooms and livingroom for people with iPods hairdryers straighteners etc
Or does anyone know if its just an outright no. I've seen it before when I lived in Spain (before I trained as an electrician) but not sure if it was kosher!

Basically the opposite of my question!

 

[telectrix]

so get your folks to sell up and buy a guest house in Spain. make sure they take some UK adaptors. :13:

 

[Guest111]

for me selling adaptors would be the way to go,putting in any form of foreign socket is bound to lead to some doughnut plugging in something that runs off a different voltage then saying they thought the sockets were 110v or something daft.

 

[telectrix]

phil. what day we going to elex? friday is best for me.

 

[Guest111]

phil. what day we going to elex? friday is best for me.

I'm going on Thursday,but might pop up Friday as well.

 

[Guest111]

phil. what day we going to elex? friday is best for me.

I'm going on Thursday,but might pop up Friday as well.tried ringing you just but you weren't answering.lol

 

[Engineer54]

for me selling adaptors would be the way to go,putting in any form of foreign socket is bound to lead to some doughnut plugging in something that runs off a different voltage then saying they thought the sockets were 110v or something daft.

These are probably the best style to go for....
Schuko to UK Mains Adapter 13A | Maplin

Though where they get costing over 6 quid each for them i don't know.... I know for a fact they cost around 1.50 / 160 Euros each in Cyprus, so someones making a real mark, if that's the general cost of these adaptors in the UK!!!

 

[Guest111]

These are probably the best style to go for....
Schuko to UK Mains Adapter 13A | Maplin

Though where they get costing over 6 quid each for them i don't know.... I know for a fact they cost around 1.50 / 160 Euros each in Cyprus, so someones making a real mark, if that's the general cost of these adaptors in the UK!!!

Maplins are just robbers,A phono plug in maplin is about a quid,they are about a quid for 10 at cpc.lol

 

[BlueToBits]

My 10p's worth: I've just had a look at reg 553.1. It appears that the BS1363 13A socket is cited as a preferred outlet. Providing certain requirements are met, such as shutters, and prevention of contact with live parts while inserting the plug, the use of other outlets is not precluded where it is necessary to distinguish the function of the circuit, or prevent danger. In this example it would seem reasonable to have a circuit distinguished for the use of European appliances. Danger could arise with the use of adaptors, none of which carry BS certification, and it would alleviate the very significant risk of danger should a visitor try to force the 2 live pins of European plug into a UK socket. It is possible to get a connection by doing so. Providing the level of protection afforded for the particular type of socket is the same as it's native country, and that level also meets UK requirements, I can't see why it would not be permitted and beneficial to do this. We commonly see non-standard BS1363 sockets in UK homes for lighting, freezers, outdoor supplies etc. The 2A, 5A, 15A, IEC, figure of 8 etc are not BS1363 sockets either.

 

[Engineer54]

My old dear has just got a place in Spain to rent out to holiday makers. Can anyone advise on where I can download Spanish regs (for free) as she wants British socket outlets next to the Spanish ones in bedrooms and livingroom for people with iPods hairdryers straighteners etc
Or does anyone know if its just an outright no. I've seen it before when I lived in Spain (before I trained as an electrician) but not sure if it was kosher!

To be honest if it was my property, and i was catering for British holidaymakers, i would just install the supplementary BS1363 sockets, kosher or no kosher!! lol!! Provided of course that all such circuits criteria were suitable for the inclusion of the supplementary BS outlets...

 

[amckay]

My old dear has just got a place in Spain to rent out to holiday makers. Can anyone advise on where I can download Spanish regs (for free) as she wants British socket outlets next to the Spanish ones in bedrooms and livingroom for people with iPods hairdryers straighteners etc
Or does anyone know if its just an outright no. I've seen it before when I lived in Spain (before I trained as an electrician) but not sure if it was kosher!

To be honest if it was my property, and i was catering for British holidaymakers, i would just install the supplementary BS1363 sockets, kosher or no kosher!! lol!! Provided of course that all such circuits criteria were suitable for the inclusion of the supplementary BS outlets...

Fair enough eng. I don't think Spain has an earthing system do they? Will have to slap a few rods in and TT it

 

[mayfair]

You cannot and i repeat cannot install Uk sockets.

 

[amckay]

You cannot and i repeat cannot install Uk sockets.

I believe your just the man for Spanish installs. I'll take that on board Mayfair. Do you know where I can get a copy/download Spanish regs?

 

[telectrix]

i did know, but we sunk them in 1588.

 

[Silly Sausage]

I believe your just the man for Spanish installs. I'll take that on board Mayfair. Do you know where I can get a copy/download Spanish regs?

Knowing how unintelligible our regs are at times, imagine the potential unreadability of the Spanish version, written in Spanish?!
Unless you're fluent in Spanish of course.

 

[amckay]

I believe your just the man for Spanish installs. I'll take that on board Mayfair. Do you know where I can get a copy/download Spanish regs?

Knowing how unintelligible our regs are at times, imagine the potential unreadability of the Spanish version, written in Spanish?!
Unless you're fluent in Spanish of course.

I'm nowhere near fluent but can tell bits and bobs. I get what you mean tho, it must be a real headache for expat sparks!

 

[mayfair]

Google itc bt 25 thats basic domestic regs you can look at all the other BT regs but it gets a bit deep.

 

[Geordie Spark]

I'll look into earthed "Schukos" with DP switches but Sintra might be onto something with the buying in bulk & selling idea. Least then she'd be covered should something go wrong!

Aye, could add a nice little mark-up on the price too. Should help pay for the towels they nick.

 

[Engineer54]

You cannot and i repeat cannot install Uk sockets.

Who is going to stop you?? Let's face it, you are just adding a supplementary BS socket outlet in bedrooms to accommodate holidaymakers small personal appliances. If Cyprus had not used the BS outlet as it's national standard, i'd have almost certainly done the same thing in the small rental property we have, that we primarily rent out to British holidaymakers....

Bit different if you changed every socket outlet in the property to the BS 1363 system and then tried selling the property on the open Spanish market.

 

[Engineer54]

Fair enough eng. I don't think Spain has an earthing system do they? Will have to slap a few rods in and TT it

Spain like many other European/Mediterranean countries uses both PME and TT and even TN-S earthing systems, but mainly it is TT and PME and can be dependant where you are. (eg, ... rural, or town/city)