Fairly making money by sub-contracting - New Business Startup

[sparksburnout]

And also, what you probably don't realise, is that a lot of our work will be word of mouth from other customers who have used a certain spark before and know they do a good job, rather than using some faceless company who rely on apps and a bunch of subby's with no idea of what they actually do. You will never have time to vet them and even if you did how would you do it??

 

[Spoon]

This is just another typical example of someone trying to get involved in something they obviously know nothing about. Most bigger domestic customers/jobs DO NOT work in a such a set way, and most of them want and appreciate a personal involvement and willingness to discuss things ON THE GROUND as jobs progress. As someone said at the beginning, this is just rated people.
It goes like this for your information: Customer rings sparky, sparky goes round to customer, discusses job, agrees a price. Sparky does job, along with any other "while you are here" bits, makes customer happy, gets paid, goes back next time, simple. Everyone is happy. If it ain't busted don't try and fix it, that's what wrong with things these days.........

sounds like he's not prepared to do any jobs that are under £3k and he has 15 of them up to now...... we will see how things go....

 

[Midwest]

OP I've only skimmed over your business proposal, but apart from you making money (and no one can be knocked for that), you seem to be trying invent a solution for the age old problem for customers finding a reliable tradesperson, or selling that to your customers.

There are several business out there at the moment trying to do the exact same thing, and you'll find little support here for that here, I feel. Some of these business, are government approved schemes, which I and others here pay handsomely for the privilege of being a member, so I can't see another being a viable goer, IMO.

Perhaps you could direct your IT skills in another direction?

 

[newtothis]

Again, just skim read.
I can't figure out how you're "fairly making money from sub-contracting" when you haven't been awarded any contracts to sub out.

 

[Welchyboy1]

No decent, self respectable sparky is going to give you 10-15% of their profit!

decent tradesmen really dont need setups like this, they are so few and far between they are usually turning work away

all youll get is muppets signing up like all the other lead generating sites !

, and your going to have to spend a pretty penny in advertising to compete in that already over crowded market!!

amazes me how everyone wants to be a middleman nowadays and skim off the top rather than doing a bit of graft themselves!

 

[puffy]

OP I've only skimmed over your business proposal, but apart from you making money (and no one can be knocked for that), you seem to be trying invent a solution for the age old problem for customers finding a reliable tradesperson, or selling that to your customers.

There are several businesse out there at the moment trying to do the exact same thing, and you'll find little support here for that here, I feel. Some of these business, are government approved schemes, which I and others here pay handsomely for the privilege of being a member, so I can't see another being a viable goer, IMO.

Perhaps you could direct your IT skills in another direction?

Not sure what other people are doing but they are going at it wrong. There will be some who agree while others don't. Let's look at ratedpeople. Good business model but bad for contractors. My business model will be bullet proof. I think most of you feel that I'll be picking up random subs to do the job etc. No. I'll have a hand selected of subs for the jobs in every city eventually.

It's not about me making money, I'm going with the flow of advance technology where someone can request these sort of work with just few clicks of a button, subs know what work is required, get job done and we all are happy.

I cant build this website in a day or two. Research is needed and those feedbacks come from reputable companies like you. Members on here style sparks as if they dont know what they're doing or assume everyone are "school kids" that knows jack. I was once on a swa installation and one of the guys treated me as if i dont know what 1 + 1 is or whats a "grips". We compete with each other too much in this business. It's pathetic. Arent we grown *ss adults?

 

[Andy78]

15% is unreal ! All that is going to achieve is making it a nailed on certainty that the customer will have to pay more for using your service as the shortfall in the contractor's pocket will be passed on directly to the customer.

Are you aware of the business overheads currently experienced by contractors and the margins they work to? If you are you should know that asking as much as 5% and still expecting the contractor's quote to be competitive in the local market is bordering on the unrealistic.

A customer of mine is building a similar service and has the right idea. It's free for contractors and customers to use. They take voluntary donations from satisfied contractors.

 

[NDG Elecs]

Here's a novel idea, people could go here: https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=r...ndroid-google&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

And get their work done 5/10/15% cheaper because there doesn't really need to be yet another middle man. If you look beyond the various sites in that link that basically offer a very similiar service then there is competentperson.com, trustmark etc.

Also a lot of people are using social media now to get word of mouth recommendations from friends etc. Nothing personal, but I hope your proposed venture never finds wings.

 

[Octopus]

Most of my customers wouldn't touch your "type" of business with a barge pole!

if you have any doubt, that's a resounding NO from me!

 

[dansk]

You'd be better off building a "rogue customer" website that we can all subscribe to and share details behind secure login

 

[joehat]

Sounds like rated people

Yep agree

 

[NDG Elecs]

You'd be better off building a "rogue customer" website that we can all subscribe to and share details behind secure login

Now THAT I would pay for!!

 

[Octopus]

You'd be better off building a "rogue customer" website that we can all subscribe to and share details behind secure login

We can rate them on :

1. Changing their minds
2. Changing the dates
3. Questioning the work
4. Meddling
5. Late payment
6. "short" payments

 

[Andy78]

We can rate them on :

1. Changing their minds
2. Changing the dates
3. Questioning the work
4. Meddling
5. Late payment
6. "short" payments

I think number one should be frequency of hot drinks provided. I did a 6 hour job the other day and got 6 drinks ! discount is already set for their next job !

 

[Octopus]

I think number one should be frequency of hot drinks provided. I did a 6 hour job the other day and got 6 drinks ! discount is already set for their next job !

I was concentrating on the "painful" clients.... so a "positive" side would be good too .....

 

[Andy78]

I was concentrating on the "painful" clients.... so a "positive" side would be good too .....

I sort of meant that. Lack of tea is number one on my pet hates list. Not getting paid and messing you about just compounds the primary issue

 

[sparksburnout]

Most of my customers wouldn't touch your "type" of business with a barge pole!

if you have any doubt, that's a resounding NO from me!

This is the point i was trying to make earlier. The OP just does not understand what the customer really wants. Word of mouth, recommendations, local, reliable tradesmen. None of my customers would touch them with one either, and why would they? Sorry, I hope it falls on its face as well, it will be a bleak day when it flourishes.

 

[rwood1981]

15% is unreal ! All that is going to achieve is making it a nailed on certainty that the customer will have to pay more for using your service as the shortfall in the contractor's pocket will be passed on directly to the customer.

Are you aware of the business overheads currently experienced by contractors and the margins they work to? If you are you should know that asking as much as 5% and still expecting the contractor's quote to be competitive in the local market is bordering on the unrealistic.

A customer of mine is building a similar service and has the right idea. It's free for contractors and customers to use. They take voluntary donations from satisfied contractors.

Its a no from me,im out!!!!

 

[sparksburnout]

Yep agree

I think it should read BErated people?

 

[puffy]

I bet if I have said there will be no fees, all sarcasms would be dropped, you'd raise from the childish responses to manhood responses, huh?

Can we all just erase x% fees for now? Your minds are not seeing the website's model and how it will (not would) work. While I agree that customers do not normally know what they want, if when they do once the work has started they may want a change. I am not creating a website not know the ins and outs of this business. I was in it but with temp contracted work. I know what I want.

Normally when someone has an idea they expresses it with minimal and once we have an MVP (Minimal Valuable Product) we will show the world for better feedback. There, the idea can be scrapped or praised.

Things to note: The website will not have a registration button for subs, only for customers. Thanks to:

No I think I got it. You are planning to waste customers time and your own time by allowing the customer to select a budget that you then have to tell them is unrealistic. Why not have a system that allows them to pick what they want e.g. number of sockets, type, number of light fittings type, details about the house etc etc and then tells them a price range final price to be confirmed following contractor visit?

I shall create such website so that at the end, a set price is given. Either I have my own guys go out to finalize the work (pricing) then have a sub carry out the work. If you have missed it, once a price is given, on the website, the customer can decline or agree so once we visit, the work is already sure.

For the curious, I have put £50 on a google advert and I have gotten voicemail on my mobile phone for work. Work is out there you only need to know where and how to find it.

I could easily create a website that has electrician post their business etc, profile etc but too many out there. Since money is important let me clarify. There will be a fee taking from the net profit. A job cost £3000, materials and gas for £2000 (assuming here), I will take x% of £1000. So please stop singing on the 15%.

Before you visit the customer, you'll know what house type, inside of the house with pictures, videos, type of work needed, when to start, empty or occupied house/flat etc, materials needed, direction to, distance and travel time, your money is sure.

How will I find these subs? I'll ask the mods on here to advertise then we will meet in person at your business and we take it from there. Since I live in Birmingham then a Birmingham sub will be needed first.

 

[Spoon]

Before you visit the customer, you'll know what house type, inside of the house with pictures, videos, type of work needed, when to start, empty or occupied house/flat etc, materials needed, direction to, distance and travel time, your money is sure.

Do most customers really know what materials they need? They just know that they want a tv in the corner. They may forget about the sky/cable box, DVD player, xbox/ps, ethernet connection.
You will only truly find out what materials you need until you visit and chat with the customer.

 

[sparksburnout]

A sparky round my way spent loads of £££££ on getting to the top of the Google rankings, it worked a treat, if you put in "electrician in xxxxxxxx" or almost anything else he was top of the list. Guess how many enquiries he got in the first month? 2 and no jobs. This guy just doesn't get it so you are all wasting your breath. The replies have not been childish, tongue in cheek yes, but essentially realistic. It won't work and people don't want this type of faceless service.

 

[Octopus]

How will I find these subs? I'll ask the mods on here to advertise then we will meet in person at your business and we take it from there. Since I live in Birmingham then a Birmingham sub will be needed first.

Hum... beware all you Brum guys!

 

[puffy]

Do most customers really know what materials they need? They just know that they want a tv in the corner. They may forget about the sky/cable box, DVD player, xbox/ps, ethernet connection.
You will only truly find out what materials you need until you visit and chat with the customer.

Materials? They dont but I should have mentioned that once a contractor has visited then I will have that information. In regards to an automated home, I have that covered

A sparky round my way spent loads of £££££ on getting to the top of the Google rankings, it worked a treat, if you put in "electrician in xxxxxxxx" or almost anything else he was top of the list. Guess how many enquiries he got in the first month? 2 and no jobs. This guy just doesn't get it so you are all wasting your breath. The replies have not been childish, tongue in cheek yes, but essentially realistic. It won't work and people don't this type of faceless service.

I live on the internet so I know things that I wont put on here so I know how to get customers so let's leave it at that. But a clue is, when a customer visits your website, you have 2 seconds to catch their attention or else they're gone but I'm not debating on "getting jobs/customers" that's my job. If you say it wont work then I'm eager to find out.

You know what's funny? I say you that "hey Jim I can get you some work and this is how I will get them". You turn around to say "nahhh mate that wont work". Instead y'all just could have said "ok mate, you may could change this up a bit, add this and remove this but here's my number so when you get a customer, hit me up".

Hum... beware all you Brum guys!

Sorry for your bad experience.

 

[hightower]

After reading your last post my 'manhood response' would be you have delusions of grandeur. I'm starting to believe this is nothing more than a wind up.

 

[Spoon]

Materials? They dont but I should have mentioned that once a contractor has visited then I will have that information. In regards to an automated home, I have that covered

You know what's funny? I say you that "hey Jim I can get you some work and this is how I will get them". You turn around to say "nahhh mate that wont work". Instead y'all just could have said "ok mate, you may could change this up a bit, add this and remove this but here's my number so when you get a customer, hit me up".

Again, most customers don't know what they need. You are putting a quote out on what they input to your site. Then you guy turns up, chats with the customer and then adds loads of material to the quote. Price goes up by quite a lot.

It's great that you always look on the bright side. We have some managers here that do that. They can suggest something and when you tell them that it can't work they say they you are "being negative" or just brush your comments aside. Then down the line there is another meeting about why is this project not going to plan...... We can all stick our heads in the sand and think everything is fine.

 

[puffy]

After reading your last post my 'manhood response' would be you have delusions of grandeur. I'm starting to believe this is nothing more than a wind up.

I dont have any "mental illnesses". But I'll stop here and create the picture (have the website up) so you'll see.

 

[Spoon]

I dont have any "mental illnesses". But I'll stop here and create the picture (have the website up) so you'll see.

Do you have one of those tacky '--- many people have visited this site' on it? It could be a good way of getting your count...

 

[puffy]

Again, most customers don't know what they need. You are putting a quote out on what they input to your site. Then you guy turns up, chats with the customer and then adds loads of material to the quote. Price goes up by quite a lot.

It's great that you always look on the bright side. We have some managers here that do that. They can suggest something and when you tell them that it can't work they say they you are "being negative" or just brush your comments aside. Then down the line there is another meeting about why is this project not going to plan...... We can all stick our heads in the sand and think everything is fine.

Let's set aside my project for a bit and reflect on a real world scenario. I have done many data cabling installations in my past from the age of 18, Im 31 now. When quoting you need to price exactly what the customer wants without adding anything else. Customer wants 4 computers into a room. You the quote exactly for that. Now you needed really are two quotes: Your other quote would derive from asking what data transfer are they doing etc. Then you may say you may need CAT6 and backup why you say CAT6 and those extra wall sockets and/maybe UPS (Uninterruptible Power Supply) and explain why they would need it. Now the customer builds confident in you and it's up to them to choose what they want or what is best.

The person doing the quotation MUST have experience in that field and professional at it. I maybe a kid but I know my data cabling in and out.

Do you have one of those tacky '--- many people have visited this site' on it? It could be a good way of getting your count...

I use other technologies for such service. I even know which website you were coming from, time spent on what page etc.

 

[hightower]

I dont have any "mental illnesses". But I'll stop here and create the picture (have the website up) so you'll see.

The thing is, (and I've glanced over the thread so forgive me if I'm wrong) I don't think anybody has called you on the technical side. Nobody has said you weren't able to design such a system, so creating 'the picture' proves nothing.

What people have called you on is the business model - that is, whether you will get subbies to do the work, whether you can compete with a local spark who doesn't pay a x% markup, whether your customers really would trust your business front end over "bob who lives around the corner and did a cracking job rewiring my mates house".

I've no doubt you can create an all singing, all dancing website or app. Making it perform as a business with a business model like you propose is where I have doubt. It's going to take a little more than £50 on Google adwords to get it off the ground even. That is why I said you have delusions of grandeur - you seem to have the blinkers on and still can't take on board what seasoned sparks are telling you, that a) decent sparks don't need your service and b) customers won't (for long) pay for services from not-so-decent-sparks.

 

[sean_ork]

Do you install the containment as well ?

 

[sparksburnout]

After reading your last post my 'manhood response' would be you have delusions of grandeur. I'm starting to believe this is nothing more than a wind up.

It does take some believing tower you are right. I think the main point to come out of the last comment, is that we live in the real world and this guy lives in a cyber one.

 

[puffy]

...It's going to take a little more than £50 on Google adwords to get it off the ground even. That is why I said you have delusions of grandeur - you seem to have the blinkers on and still can't take on board what seasoned sparks are telling you, that a) decent sparks don't need your service and b) customers won't (for long) pay for services from not-so-decent-sparks.

That £50 is just a teaser. I know I need more and I know how to spend less. This business is not for everyone. Not every taxi men/women jumped on the Uber band wagon. Not everyone shops on eBay, not everyone processes their card through Paypal and believe me, not everyone do their searches through Google. Im not here to get everyone but rather listen to everyone.

 

[hightower]

That £50 is just a teaser. I know I need more and I know how to spend less. This business is not for everyone. Not every taxi men/women jumped on the Uber band wagon. Not everyone shops on eBay, not everyone processes their card through Paypal and believe me, not everyone do their searches through Google. Im not here to get everyone but rather listen to everyone.

Blinkers on. What you've essentially proposed is an umbrella company. A customer uses the app, your guys go scope the work, give a price, and you get a subby involved.

So riddle me this. Why do you need the app? What's the issue with a customer phoning/emailing you saying "hey can you come give a price for this?"

If you're going to go an price the work before involving a subby, I don't see what the point of this all singing website/app is, except that it utilises your skills in something that you're possibly good at to create a link to something that you're not so good at. You're fixing a problem that quite frankly doesn't exist.

We're going round in circles here, do what you want, but you came here looking for feedback, and I sincerely hope you take it on board otherwise you'll end up like those on Dragon's Den that remortgage their house 5 times and still have nothing to show for it.

"But I will have something to show for it, you'll see when I get 'the picture' up"

 

[puffy]

Here is my question, how do subbies get their work? Noticed I said subbies. I assume something like: Dave phones his mate and say "jim here's a job sheet, do this work for me". Is that similar?

 

[puffy]

So riddle me this. Why do you need the app? What's the issue with a customer phoning/emailing you saying "hey can you come give a price for this?"

Ahhh the customer may have more than one quotes so I'm eliminating just to have my quote.

 

[Spoon]

Ahhh the customer may have more than one quotes so I'm eliminating just to have my quote.

I would think that your customer will have more quotes, based on people coming round and viewing the job, then giving accurate quotes. You on the other hand is giving the customer a very rough estimate.
For example: customer wants a re-wire. 1 quote is £3,500, another is £3,300. Your estimate is £2,000 to £3,000 (or maybe £3,000 to £4,000) with a possible £1,000 on top. Why would anyone agree to your estimate?

 

[puffy]

I would think that your customer will have more quotes, based on people coming round and viewing the job, then giving accurate quotes. You on the other hand is giving the customer a very rough estimate.
For example: customer wants a re-wire. 1 quote is £3,500, another is £3,300. Your estimate is £2,000 to £3,000 (or maybe £3,000 to £4,000) with a possible £1,000 on top. Why would anyone agree to your estimate?

So realisticly a rough quote is a waste of time and an in person quote is preferred?

 

[hightower]

So realisticly a rough quote is a waste of time and an in person quote is preferred?

Here's a question for you that might be better understood and help the point sink:

I'm setting up a business and need a website. How much will it cost?

 

[Spoon]

Here's a question for you that might be better understood and help the point sink:

I'm setting up a business and need a website. How much will it cost?

I like you hightower.. You come across a hell of a lot better than me..

 

[Spoon]

So realisticly a rough quote is a waste of time and an in person quote is preferred?

Again, hightower would probably put this better but all I can say is: In this posts case, yes, a persons quote will be a lot better than your app quote......

 

[Andy78]

So realisticly a rough quote is a waste of time and an in person quote is preferred?

All you are doing here with statements like that and many others in this thread is convincing your potential target audience that you don't have the first idea about what we do or what you are doing.

 

[hightower]

Again, hightower would probably put this better but all I can say is

Ha, you make me out to compare with Shakespeare, so I'll leave with this appropriate quote:

"Your brain is as dry as the remainder biscuit after voyage"

Seriously OP, think carefully before you spent another minute on this project.

 

[Spoon]

Ha, you make me out to compare with Shakespeare, so I'll leave with this appropriate quote:

"Your brain is as dry as the remainder biscuit after voyage"

Seriously OP, think carefully before you spent another minute on this project.

haha. ive had quite a few slaggings off about my wonderful brain, and the way it thinks, but it has never been put so quaintly before..

 

[hightower]

haha. ive had quite a few slaggings off about my wonderful brain, and the way it thinks, but it has never been put so quaintly before..

Oh no, I was aiming at the OP

 

[Spoon]

Oh no, I was aiming at the OP

I know mate. That's why I put the smiley face at the end of my post. I do like to twist some posts.

 

[puffy]

Here's a question for you that might be better understood and help the point sink:

I'm setting up a business and need a website. How much will it cost?

Easy. Ask customer these first:

• What is the business
• What are your targeted audience
• Are your selling products/services or just displaying static content
• Budget

So I still dont understand what are you trying to get across. If I have a web development business and someone asks that question, my website would extract those information already.

All you are doing here with statements like that and many others in this thread is convincing your potential target audience that you don't have the first idea about what we do or what you are doing.

All Im doing is finding a solution to a problem. Now what is that problem you may ask? A process where constant work is available eliminating confusion of what a customer wants. It seems to be tough in this electrical business. I'll find a way.

 

[Andy78]

All Im doing is finding a solution to a problem. Now what is that problem you may ask? A process where constant work is available eliminating confusion of what a customer wants. It seems to be tough in this electrical business. I'll find a way.

And there lies your problem, this problem doesn't exist. All you are looking to do is take a large percentage someone else's hard earned money in exchange for passing on details.
For the amount you propose asking for, any electrician could easily increase their business through existing and established promotional methods.
Your business model offers nothing that any electrician or electrical firm could not do for themselves.

 

[Spoon]

Again, its good that you have a positive attitude towards this (blinkered though it may be) but it just can't compete against someone going round, seeing what is actually involved in the job and then quoting. You have to be living on cloud cuckoo land to think it will. You will end up losing money cause your quotes are either too small (then the good electricians will quit and you will end up with muppets doing the job) or you quote will be too high and you won't get the job.

 

[puffy]

... All you are looking to do is take a large percentage someone else's hard earned money ...

And here we have someone that has their eyes fixed, glued and hammered down on the 10% - 15% where I've said to erase that for a bit.

If I'm correct, I think the business model reflects an umbrella company. hmmmmm....