flexible conduit, CAN YOU WIRE A HOUSE WITH IT?

[vmgbarra]

can I wire a house in flexible conduit and singles ?, as done in other parts of Europe, there does not seem to be any specific info in BS7671 or part P,

Let me explain further
I have 20 years experience uk trained ,i have done commercial and domestic but I have also pent a few years working in Europe and found that using a flexible conduit system gives you the abiliy to add extra circuts or switching without having to rip up floors, I hate twin and earth its nasty out of date and too rigid, especially when trying to screw back sockes

can anyone offer me any recomendations etc

 

[shanky887614]

I think they have a cable called MC which is like a corrugated metal tube on the outside.

They also use something similar to T&E called romec I think, comes with different coloured sheaths to denote cable size.

YouTube is full of many interesting and scary videos of merkin electrics!

just had a look on google and it looks like it comes in metal flexicon.

if I was going to go completely overboard in uk I would do everthing in swa.

but the price doesnt make it worth while in the uk

 

[telectrix]

i'd never wire a house in flexible conduit. the conductivity is crap compared to the copper that you find in cable.

 

[Engineer54]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't the yanks wire their houses with singles and steel flexi-con?? I know very little indeed about the American NEC so I could be way out here.

As stated by others, they use MC cable and the flat cable with an uninsulated earth, similar to the UK's T&E, but the CPC isn't of a reduced size....

 

[davesparks]

They also seem to have, at least in their domestic stuff, a tendancy to use a 15A MCB = X wire size, 20A MCB = Y wire size approach to cable sizing.

Again this is based on information gathered from the internet so may not be entirely accurate.

 

[Lucien Nunes]

Why do people try to over complicate a simple job that as worked perfectly well for decades.

Don't knock it until you've tried it. It's easy to fall into a groove, thinking that the way you do something is the only way or the best way. In fact there are many ways to skin this cat and just because the UK is pretty good all round with electrics doesn't mean that there aren't a few equal or better ideas in use elsewhere. The wiring system is often dictated by the type of structure but in any case conduit has a lot going for it.

The first time I looked in a modern lighting junction box in Foreignland was a revelation. About 5 lighting points were fed from it, some 2-way switched, all wired in singles in flex conduit. The box was recessed in the wall, easy to get at, and a quick pull confirmed that most of the cables at least were free enough to pull through to the points. All the lines were colour coded by function, at a glance I could see which cables were feeds, switch lines and strappers. If Mr. Householder had wanted an extra s/l put in to a dual-circuit chandelier, or a 2-way modified to control a different point, or any troubleshooting was required, it could all have been done without an ounce of disturbance to anything. Over here we'd have been prising up floorboards, drilling joists, hunting junction boxes tucked under noggins...

 

[Engineer54]

It only takes one crushed/collapsed flexible conduit and the system is buggered as far as pulling additional cables in.... Seen that orange ribbed flexible stuff used all over Europe, Asia, Middle East, it's pot luck if they are actually rewirable... To my mind, it's Crap with a capital C ...lol!!

 

[vmgbarra]

1 I have never seen orange conduit
2 yes the original outlay and first fix is a little more expensive, but second fix is quicker
3 the customer always wants something extra once the floor is down, now you can give them what they want.
I used to be set in my ways thinking t+e was great until I saw eu installations

 

[vmgbarra]

I feel that we are being left behind, in our domestic installations

 

[R G]

1 I have never seen orange conduit
2 yes the original outlay and first fix is a little more expensive, but second fix is quicker
3 the customer always wants something extra once the floor is down, now you can give them what they want.
I used to be set in my ways thinking t+e was great until I saw eu installations

I think he means the old Gilflex which was used in the 70s and 80s , it's a flat ribbed oval tube with 3 sections with singles inside

 

[Engineer54]

I feel that we are being left behind, in our domestic installations

So what country in Europe have you been resident in then??

 

[vmgbarra]

also them damed diy cowboys wont touch singles, we all know they love t+e

 

[PEG]

1 I have never seen orange conduit
2 yes the original outlay and first fix is a little more expensive, but second fix is quicker
3 the customer always wants something extra once the floor is down, now you can give them what they want.
I used to be set in my ways thinking t+e was great until I saw eu installations

I see your point to a degree,but the argument that the customer can be "given what they want" does not hold true. They will invariably desire fixed,new feeds and switching points which will require chasing out anyway,so the fitment of flexible conduit or not,is academic. The future flexibility of these systems,can be down to previous installers care,or even luck. I have encountered steel conduit that had capacity for additional conductors,yet required stripping down due to poor initial installation. Also,now and again,i have slipped in a new/extra cable through plastic capping,which was never intended for this "future proofing..." For years i have struggled to sell any of my "hinged skirting board accessible containment system" ...:smartass:

 

[mainlinedirect]

Hi you can wire a house in flexible conduit and singles. it is called "Copex" but it will be a much better idear to wire it in HG PVC conduit or metal using crampet's as a fixing to inside the wall make sure there is a inspection box at the end of every two lengths ie, 6mtrs for ease of pulling the singles through I hope this helps

 

[uksparks]

What is people's obsession with wiring houses to make it easier next time, come on face it, you rewire a house now, if in 40+ years you want to rewire, just channel it all out and start again. It bugs me this obsession people have, yeah ok it's nice to help the next guy but Im dammed if I'm going to be using conduit in walls etc, clip it, skim it, sign it off!

 

[davesparks]

1 I have never seen orange conduit
2 yes the original outlay and first fix is a little more expensive, but second fix is quicker
3 the customer always wants something extra once the floor is down, now you can give them what they want.
I used to be set in my ways thinking t+e was great until I saw eu installations

How does wiring in flexi conduit help when the customer wants something extra after the floors have gone down?
You won't have a conduit at the place where they want the extra point, you'll still have to have the floor up to run the extra conduit and join it in to the conduit system.

 

[shanky887614]

What is people's obsession with wiring houses to make it easier next time, come on face it, you rewire a house now, if in 40+ years you want to rewire, just channel it all out and start again. It bugs me this obsession people have, yeah ok it's nice to help the next guy but Im dammed if I'm going to be using conduit in walls etc, clip it, skim it, sign it off!

the only thing I would make rewireable is data points etc, gigabyte ethernet is common

that is around 125MB

other countries have faster wifi than this so it would be nice to upgrade in the future without having to redecorate

 

[davesparks]

What is people's obsession with wiring houses to make it easier next time, come on face it, you rewire a house now, if in 40+ years you want to rewire, just channel it all out and start again. It bugs me this obsession people have, yeah ok it's nice to help the next guy but Im dammed if I'm going to be using conduit in walls etc, clip it, skim it, sign it off!

A lot of is were taught to do a job to the best of our abilities, and to maintain the highest possible standards.
Heck I was taught that cables should never be able to come into significant contact with wet plaster, hence the capping/conduit.

And there is every possibility that it will be you who has to come back and replace a cable when the homeowner has had a go at putting a picture up or some shelves.

I think having the attitude of doing your job and everyone who follows you can hang is disgusting and shortsighted.

 

[R G]

To be honest I don't think there will be much meat left in the joists when you've pulled through 6 x 25mm diameter flexible conduits ...

 

[Adam W]

1 I have never seen orange conduit
2 yes the original outlay and first fix is a little more expensive, but second fix is quicker
3 the customer always wants something extra once the floor is down, now you can give them what they want.
I used to be set in my ways thinking t+e was great until I saw eu installations

Orange is the standard colour for electrical conduit, as blue is for drinking water, yellow for gas, red for firefighting water etc. In practice it's rarely used, presumably because orange pipes everywhere would look awful.

While technically there's nothing to say you can't wire a house in singles in flexible conduit, there's little to gain for the extra it would cost and extra time it would take.
I've heard other people stipulating an installation 'has to be rewireable', well every installation has to be rewireable as per BS7671, it's just that some installations are more rewireable than others.
Presumably as with most domestic properties the plan is to wire it up and then leave it for 30 - 40 years until the next rewire - you're not going to be expected to pull fresh cables in every year and IMO once every 30 - 40 years isn't too often to have to do a bit of making good.

It's good to innovate and think about things, but there are reasons most domestic properties are wired in T&E - it's not just because electricians are stuck in their ways.

 

[SPARTYKUS]

A lot of is were taught to do a job to the best of our abilities, and to maintain the highest possible standards.
Heck I was taught that cables should never be able to come into significant contact with wet plaster, hence the capping/conduit.

And there is every possibility that it will be you who has to come back and replace a cable when the homeowner has had a go at putting a picture up or some shelves.

I think having the attitude of doing your job and everyone who follows you can hang is disgusting and shortsighted.

Not sure why you were taught that, maybe just seen as good practise, capping was to protect against a trowel not plaster. I think a long long long time ago (maybe with rubber cable?) it may have figured.

not sure. Maybe an old un can correct me .....

 

[R G]

The thing is that Gilflex is impossible to rewire , I had a whole estate with it and it wouldn't budge an inch , I can only think if given a run with a couple of bends flexible conduit would be the same , actually I have found that wiring up flexible conduit is tight and I have had to wire it straight then install it ..

As regards capping , channel its just good practice really , I personally use oval capping/conduit myself , each to his own....

 

[shanky887614]

The thing is that Gilflex is impossible to rewire , I had a whole estate with it and it wouldn't budge an inch , I can only think if given a run with a couple of bends flexible conduit would be the same , actually I have found that wiring up flexible conduit is tight and I have had to wire it straight then install it ..

flexible conduit Is crap, we use it to wire inverters from trunking, usually you need someone to hold it straight while you pull cables through it, goodluck rewiring flexi in a wall etc.


you want smooth or non at all, plastic conduit with ****loads of couplers is a lot better

 

[mayfair]

You dont see the advantage then you must be blind m8 ive just rewired a large bar and only had to do 1 yes thats 1 chase the rest of the singles pulled straight through the 15 year old flexible conduit....simples

Steel conduit is a world apart from the cheap nd nasty flexible conduit that seems to be popular at the moment.

I guess if you used a good strong flexible conduit you could do it, but I don't really see the advantage?

 

[davesparks]

You dont see the advantage then you must be blind m8 ive just rewired a large bar and only had to do 1 yes thats 1 chase the rest of the singles pulled straight through the 15 year old flexible conduit....simples

I've rewired plenty of houses where I've not had to cut any chases due to just pulling new twins down existing conduit drops, but can't say it would have been any easier if it had been done in flexible conduit.

Why did a 15year old installation need a point for point (I assume due to the reuse of conduits) rewire?

 

[7029 dave]

Weather it be conduit, oval tube, yes an even capping, gilflex, copex, if installed correctly you have an good chance to pull through.!!

 

[GMES]

Weather it be conduit, oval tube, yes an even capping, gilflex, copex, if installed correctly you have an good chance to pull through.!!

Bit cold outside!!!

 

[GMES]

Only kidding Dave, couldn't resist

 

[7029 dave]

Bit cold outside!!!

No not the grammar police. lol

 

[GMES]

No not the grammar police. lol

Yes sorry,never again because I will come unstuck very quickly if I go down that road

 

[trev]

I was once asked to give a rewire price on a pyro install. I gave them 2 prices, one for pyro and one for T&E.
Surprisingly they took the T&E price.