flexible conduit, CAN YOU WIRE A HOUSE WITH IT?

[vmgbarra]

can I wire a house in flexible conduit and singles ?, as done in other parts of Europe, there does not seem to be any specific info in BS7671 or part P,

Let me explain further
I have 20 years experience uk trained ,i have done commercial and domestic but I have also pent a few years working in Europe and found that using a flexible conduit system gives you the abiliy to add extra circuts or switching without having to rip up floors, I hate twin and earth its nasty out of date and too rigid, especially when trying to screw back sockes

can anyone offer me any recomendations etc

 

[stevey1983]

Yes you can. Why not? Seen many older
houses done in steel conduit

 

[davesparks]

Steel conduit is a world apart from the cheap nd nasty flexible conduit that seems to be popular at the moment.

I guess if you used a good strong flexible conduit you could do it, but I don't really see the advantage?

 

[7029 dave]

Well of course.

 

[Engineer54]

If you're talking about that god awful ribbed flexible conduit, then i wish you luck trying to pull additional cables in at a future date. The walls of that stuff just collapses, especially at the any bends!! BTW, you don't have to use T&E, you can use the same type of round building cable they use in Europe, better actually as the CPC will be the same size as the phase conductors.

 

[Deservices]

Unless it's steel conduit, it would have to be the double insulated singles like used on lighting in many homes. As I'm sure cables have to be double insulated unless protected by steel conduit. But probably wrong lol

 

[Engineer54]

Unless it's steel conduit, it would have to be the double insulated singles like used on lighting in many homes. As I'm sure cables have to be double insulated unless protected by steel conduit. But probably wrong lol

Consider yourself very ''Wrong'' then!! lol!!

 

[Deservices]

So you can rewire a house in single insulated cable?


Consider yourself very ''Wrong'' then!! lol!!

 

[danzor]

Does this take us back to the double insulated topic

 

[Deservices]

What would that topic be called so I can find it lol

 

[vmgbarra]

if the conduit is fixed regularly and has sufficient capacity pulling a extra circuit is not a problem, could t+e be used because of mice?,
Is there a organisation I cold ask , niceic ,IEE , that can say yes or n bloody way ?

 

[Andy78]

if the conduit is fixed regularly and has sufficient capacity pulling a extra circuit is not a problem, could t+e be used because of mice?,
Is there a organisation I cold ask , niceic ,IEE , that can say yes or n bloody way ?

Organisations can advise you on what satisfies the regs. Whether it's a good idea or not is another matter, and I personally would not fancy pulling extra circuits down buried flexible conduit. Any reason you are opposed to rigid conduit ?

 

[SPARTYKUS]

Mice will chew through T+E just as easily as plastic conduit or double insulated singles or flex.

 

[vmgbarra]

or would I be safer using steel flexible for 230v and plastic flexible for phone and antenna

 

[Deservices]

Why not just use plastic conduit? or the oval stuff is good. Easy to pull cables thou and simple to fit.

 

[vmgbarra]

rigid conduit is great and can be a real feature but it is a bit labour intensive in a house, through joists etc

 

[Andy78]

Using steel flexible conduit to wire a house would be an excellent way to cause yourself grief and a huge materials bill

 

[Deservices]

Why would you want to? Even if it was done in conduit, you would have alot of fun trying to pull cables though without getting to service joints at bends.

 

[vmgbarra]

I understand t+e is cheap by comparison and its quick to install, but its nasty and the conductors are too rigid and end up overbent in the back of the socket

 

[SPARTYKUS]

I understand t+e is cheap by comparison and its quick to install, but its nasty and the conductors are too rigid and end up overbent in the back of the socket

Eh?...?

Only if you're doing it wrong!

 

[Engineer54]

So you can rewire a house in single insulated cable?


Consider yourself very ''Wrong'' then!! lol!!

Have you ever wired plastic conduit with insulated and sheathed singles then?? lol!!

This thread is just getting dafter as it goes along!!

God knows how much such an install will cost in terms of the extra labour involved, ...and all for very little to no gain. Can't imagine trying to install a complete conduit system (rigid or flexible) as a rewire, it'll be hard enough on a new build!! As i say, totally Daft idea all round!!

In fact this has got to be a wind-up, no-one but no-one that is an experienced electrician would ever contemplate runing in metal flexible conduit in a domestic installation....

 

[rich.250]

Unless it's steel conduit, it would have to be the double insulated singles like used on lighting in many homes. As I'm sure cables have to be double insulated unless protected by steel conduit. But probably wrong lol

They are insulated and sheathed!!! Not double insulated.

 

[Deservices]

Only just woke up was having a mental blockage lol. Running metal conduit under floor. Wouldn't even consider it. All because op don't like bends in twin and earth. Odd is all I can say.

 

[R G]

Flexible conduit is used in the Mediteranian region in concrete floored construction for a good reason , Ground movement i.e. seismic activity , and also the ease of installation through the steel mesh before pouring concrete , unless those are your building perameters then I see no need for this sort of installation,,,

 

[GMES]

The bloody world as gone mad, get it wired in T&E and do it right, if installed correctly by a competent electrician there should be no issues!
oval conduit down to switch drops and sockets, job done.
Why do people try to over complicate a simple job that as worked perfectly well for decades.

 

[SPARTYKUS]

My spider sense is tingling with this thread

 

[GMES]

My spider sense is tingling with this thread

Get ya sen to a doctor then!!!

 

[D Skelton]

Have you ever wired plastic conduit with insulated and sheathed singles then?? lol!!

This thread is just getting dafter as it goes along!!

God knows how much such an install will cost in terms of the extra labour involved, ...and all for very little to no gain. Can't imagine trying to install a complete conduit system (rigid or flexible) as a rewire, it'll be hard enough on a new build!! As i say, totally Daft idea all round!!

In fact this has got to be a wind-up, no-one but no-one that is an experienced electrician would ever contemplate runing in metal flexible conduit in a domestic installation....

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't the yanks wire their houses with singles and steel flexi-con?? I know very little indeed about the American NEC so I could be way out here.

 

[davesparks]

I think they have a cable called MC which is like a corrugated metal tube on the outside.

They also use something similar to T&E called romec I think, comes with different coloured sheaths to denote cable size.

YouTube is full of many interesting and scary videos of merkin electrics!

 

[Pete999]

Unless it's steel conduit, it would have to be the double insulated singles like used on lighting in many homes. As I'm sure cables have to be double insulated unless protected by steel conduit. But probably wrong lol

It's not strictly double insulated it's insulated single cable with mechanical protection, sorry had a hard day and need to take it out on someone no offense intended

 

[shanky887614]

I think they have a cable called MC which is like a corrugated metal tube on the outside.

They also use something similar to T&E called romec I think, comes with different coloured sheaths to denote cable size.

YouTube is full of many interesting and scary videos of merkin electrics!

just had a look on google and it looks like it comes in metal flexicon.

if I was going to go completely overboard in uk I would do everthing in swa.

but the price doesnt make it worth while in the uk

 

[telectrix]

i'd never wire a house in flexible conduit. the conductivity is crap compared to the copper that you find in cable.

 

[Engineer54]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't the yanks wire their houses with singles and steel flexi-con?? I know very little indeed about the American NEC so I could be way out here.

As stated by others, they use MC cable and the flat cable with an uninsulated earth, similar to the UK's T&E, but the CPC isn't of a reduced size....

 

[davesparks]

They also seem to have, at least in their domestic stuff, a tendancy to use a 15A MCB = X wire size, 20A MCB = Y wire size approach to cable sizing.

Again this is based on information gathered from the internet so may not be entirely accurate.

 

[Lucien Nunes]

Why do people try to over complicate a simple job that as worked perfectly well for decades.

Don't knock it until you've tried it. It's easy to fall into a groove, thinking that the way you do something is the only way or the best way. In fact there are many ways to skin this cat and just because the UK is pretty good all round with electrics doesn't mean that there aren't a few equal or better ideas in use elsewhere. The wiring system is often dictated by the type of structure but in any case conduit has a lot going for it.

The first time I looked in a modern lighting junction box in Foreignland was a revelation. About 5 lighting points were fed from it, some 2-way switched, all wired in singles in flex conduit. The box was recessed in the wall, easy to get at, and a quick pull confirmed that most of the cables at least were free enough to pull through to the points. All the lines were colour coded by function, at a glance I could see which cables were feeds, switch lines and strappers. If Mr. Householder had wanted an extra s/l put in to a dual-circuit chandelier, or a 2-way modified to control a different point, or any troubleshooting was required, it could all have been done without an ounce of disturbance to anything. Over here we'd have been prising up floorboards, drilling joists, hunting junction boxes tucked under noggins...

 

[Engineer54]

It only takes one crushed/collapsed flexible conduit and the system is buggered as far as pulling additional cables in.... Seen that orange ribbed flexible stuff used all over Europe, Asia, Middle East, it's pot luck if they are actually rewirable... To my mind, it's Crap with a capital C ...lol!!

 

[vmgbarra]

1 I have never seen orange conduit
2 yes the original outlay and first fix is a little more expensive, but second fix is quicker
3 the customer always wants something extra once the floor is down, now you can give them what they want.
I used to be set in my ways thinking t+e was great until I saw eu installations

 

[vmgbarra]

I feel that we are being left behind, in our domestic installations

 

[R G]

1 I have never seen orange conduit
2 yes the original outlay and first fix is a little more expensive, but second fix is quicker
3 the customer always wants something extra once the floor is down, now you can give them what they want.
I used to be set in my ways thinking t+e was great until I saw eu installations

I think he means the old Gilflex which was used in the 70s and 80s , it's a flat ribbed oval tube with 3 sections with singles inside

 

[Engineer54]

I feel that we are being left behind, in our domestic installations

So what country in Europe have you been resident in then??

 

[vmgbarra]

also them damed diy cowboys wont touch singles, we all know they love t+e

 

[PEG]

1 I have never seen orange conduit
2 yes the original outlay and first fix is a little more expensive, but second fix is quicker
3 the customer always wants something extra once the floor is down, now you can give them what they want.
I used to be set in my ways thinking t+e was great until I saw eu installations

I see your point to a degree,but the argument that the customer can be "given what they want" does not hold true. They will invariably desire fixed,new feeds and switching points which will require chasing out anyway,so the fitment of flexible conduit or not,is academic. The future flexibility of these systems,can be down to previous installers care,or even luck. I have encountered steel conduit that had capacity for additional conductors,yet required stripping down due to poor initial installation. Also,now and again,i have slipped in a new/extra cable through plastic capping,which was never intended for this "future proofing..." For years i have struggled to sell any of my "hinged skirting board accessible containment system" ...:smartass:

 

[mainlinedirect]

Hi you can wire a house in flexible conduit and singles. it is called "Copex" but it will be a much better idear to wire it in HG PVC conduit or metal using crampet's as a fixing to inside the wall make sure there is a inspection box at the end of every two lengths ie, 6mtrs for ease of pulling the singles through I hope this helps

 

[uksparks]

What is people's obsession with wiring houses to make it easier next time, come on face it, you rewire a house now, if in 40+ years you want to rewire, just channel it all out and start again. It bugs me this obsession people have, yeah ok it's nice to help the next guy but Im dammed if I'm going to be using conduit in walls etc, clip it, skim it, sign it off!

 

[davesparks]

1 I have never seen orange conduit
2 yes the original outlay and first fix is a little more expensive, but second fix is quicker
3 the customer always wants something extra once the floor is down, now you can give them what they want.
I used to be set in my ways thinking t+e was great until I saw eu installations

How does wiring in flexi conduit help when the customer wants something extra after the floors have gone down?
You won't have a conduit at the place where they want the extra point, you'll still have to have the floor up to run the extra conduit and join it in to the conduit system.

 

[shanky887614]

What is people's obsession with wiring houses to make it easier next time, come on face it, you rewire a house now, if in 40+ years you want to rewire, just channel it all out and start again. It bugs me this obsession people have, yeah ok it's nice to help the next guy but Im dammed if I'm going to be using conduit in walls etc, clip it, skim it, sign it off!

the only thing I would make rewireable is data points etc, gigabyte ethernet is common

that is around 125MB

other countries have faster wifi than this so it would be nice to upgrade in the future without having to redecorate

 

[davesparks]

What is people's obsession with wiring houses to make it easier next time, come on face it, you rewire a house now, if in 40+ years you want to rewire, just channel it all out and start again. It bugs me this obsession people have, yeah ok it's nice to help the next guy but Im dammed if I'm going to be using conduit in walls etc, clip it, skim it, sign it off!

A lot of is were taught to do a job to the best of our abilities, and to maintain the highest possible standards.
Heck I was taught that cables should never be able to come into significant contact with wet plaster, hence the capping/conduit.

And there is every possibility that it will be you who has to come back and replace a cable when the homeowner has had a go at putting a picture up or some shelves.

I think having the attitude of doing your job and everyone who follows you can hang is disgusting and shortsighted.

 

[R G]

To be honest I don't think there will be much meat left in the joists when you've pulled through 6 x 25mm diameter flexible conduits ...

 

[Adam W]

1 I have never seen orange conduit
2 yes the original outlay and first fix is a little more expensive, but second fix is quicker
3 the customer always wants something extra once the floor is down, now you can give them what they want.
I used to be set in my ways thinking t+e was great until I saw eu installations

Orange is the standard colour for electrical conduit, as blue is for drinking water, yellow for gas, red for firefighting water etc. In practice it's rarely used, presumably because orange pipes everywhere would look awful.

While technically there's nothing to say you can't wire a house in singles in flexible conduit, there's little to gain for the extra it would cost and extra time it would take.
I've heard other people stipulating an installation 'has to be rewireable', well every installation has to be rewireable as per BS7671, it's just that some installations are more rewireable than others.
Presumably as with most domestic properties the plan is to wire it up and then leave it for 30 - 40 years until the next rewire - you're not going to be expected to pull fresh cables in every year and IMO once every 30 - 40 years isn't too often to have to do a bit of making good.

It's good to innovate and think about things, but there are reasons most domestic properties are wired in T&E - it's not just because electricians are stuck in their ways.

 

[SPARTYKUS]

A lot of is were taught to do a job to the best of our abilities, and to maintain the highest possible standards.
Heck I was taught that cables should never be able to come into significant contact with wet plaster, hence the capping/conduit.

And there is every possibility that it will be you who has to come back and replace a cable when the homeowner has had a go at putting a picture up or some shelves.

I think having the attitude of doing your job and everyone who follows you can hang is disgusting and shortsighted.

Not sure why you were taught that, maybe just seen as good practise, capping was to protect against a trowel not plaster. I think a long long long time ago (maybe with rubber cable?) it may have figured.

not sure. Maybe an old un can correct me .....