flexible conduit, CAN YOU WIRE A HOUSE WITH IT?

[R G]

The thing is that Gilflex is impossible to rewire , I had a whole estate with it and it wouldn't budge an inch , I can only think if given a run with a couple of bends flexible conduit would be the same , actually I have found that wiring up flexible conduit is tight and I have had to wire it straight then install it ..

As regards capping , channel its just good practice really , I personally use oval capping/conduit myself , each to his own....

 

[shanky887614]

The thing is that Gilflex is impossible to rewire , I had a whole estate with it and it wouldn't budge an inch , I can only think if given a run with a couple of bends flexible conduit would be the same , actually I have found that wiring up flexible conduit is tight and I have had to wire it straight then install it ..

flexible conduit Is crap, we use it to wire inverters from trunking, usually you need someone to hold it straight while you pull cables through it, goodluck rewiring flexi in a wall etc.


you want smooth or non at all, plastic conduit with ****loads of couplers is a lot better

 

[mayfair]

You dont see the advantage then you must be blind m8 ive just rewired a large bar and only had to do 1 yes thats 1 chase the rest of the singles pulled straight through the 15 year old flexible conduit....simples

Steel conduit is a world apart from the cheap nd nasty flexible conduit that seems to be popular at the moment.

I guess if you used a good strong flexible conduit you could do it, but I don't really see the advantage?

 

[davesparks]

You dont see the advantage then you must be blind m8 ive just rewired a large bar and only had to do 1 yes thats 1 chase the rest of the singles pulled straight through the 15 year old flexible conduit....simples

I've rewired plenty of houses where I've not had to cut any chases due to just pulling new twins down existing conduit drops, but can't say it would have been any easier if it had been done in flexible conduit.

Why did a 15year old installation need a point for point (I assume due to the reuse of conduits) rewire?

 

[7029 dave]

Weather it be conduit, oval tube, yes an even capping, gilflex, copex, if installed correctly you have an good chance to pull through.!!

 

[GMES]

Weather it be conduit, oval tube, yes an even capping, gilflex, copex, if installed correctly you have an good chance to pull through.!!

Bit cold outside!!!

 

[GMES]

Only kidding Dave, couldn't resist

 

[7029 dave]

Bit cold outside!!!

No not the grammar police. lol

 

[GMES]

No not the grammar police. lol

Yes sorry,never again because I will come unstuck very quickly if I go down that road

 

[trev]

I was once asked to give a rewire price on a pyro install. I gave them 2 prices, one for pyro and one for T&E.
Surprisingly they took the T&E price.

 

[rich.250]

What is people's obsession with wiring houses to make it easier next time, come on face it, you rewire a house now, if in 40+ years you want to rewire, just channel it all out and start again. It bugs me this obsession people have, yeah ok it's nice to help the next guy but Im dammed if I'm going to be using conduit in walls etc, clip it, skim it, sign it off!

Personally,
You'd never catch me or a member of my staff doing this. They'd be out the door!
Do it right and do it once. Even if it is just PVC capping or any type of conduit is far superior! Done many a Rewire with no chasing needed, which says it all.
Unprotected cables in plaster is rough!
Bring back the old school sparks who took care......

 

[jimjimjim]

Aaahhhh OP, 5 pages of people telling you you're wrong and how to do it their way.

If you want to wire it in flexy conduit, then go for it.

Jim

 

[uksparks]

I do use capping, but not all the time, as I do my own plastering I know I am being careful, it's not rough at ll not capping it, it doesn't add any protection.

 

[uksparks]

Personally,
You'd never catch me or a member of my staff doing this. They'd be out the door!
Do it right and do it once. Even if it is just PVC capping or any type of conduit is far superior! Done many a Rewire with no chasing needed, which says it all.
Unprotected cables in plaster is rough!
Bring back the old school sparks who took care......

Putting capping on is a pain in the bum when rewiring as you have to make all the chases 50% wider. It's not rough and nothing wrong with it, I do take a lot of care and doubt you would be ble to pick any faults as such with my rewires.

 

[davesparks]

It is rough and not that many years ago it was considered completely unacceptable.

Capping for new walls and oval conduit for chases in existing walls is the minimum standard as I was taught it.

 

[ayjay]

regarding flexable conduit i think its a great way to go! perfect for a house rewire, the surface drops to the switches look magic btw
just do a 5 day course on how to--- then the install, simple--

 

[R G]

regarding flexable conduit i think its a great way to go! perfect for a house rewire, the surface drops to the switches look magic btw
just do a 5 day course on how to--- then the install, simple--

I see Wickes had better get loads of Flexy Conduit in after this thread , along with loads of How To Leaflets. OMG


Whats wrong with the old school trusted methods ---Chase wall install cables in capping , plaster up---Job Done !!

 

[Engineer54]

I see Wickes had better get loads of Flexy Conduit in after this thread , along with loads of How To Leaflets. OMG


Whats wrong with the old school trusted methods ---Chase wall install cables in capping , plaster up---Job Done !!

That's not old school methods, .....that would have been metal and later plastic conduit drops to switch and socket back boxes and the like!! The advent of the use of capping, is what gave the domestic electrician the name of House Basher!! lol!!

 

[D Skelton]

Personally,
You'd never catch me or a member of my staff doing this. They'd be out the door!
Do it right and do it once. Even if it is just PVC capping or any type of conduit is far superior! Done many a Rewire with no chasing needed, which says it all.
Unprotected cables in plaster is rough!
Bring back the old school sparks who took care......

It is rough and not that many years ago it was considered completely unacceptable.

Capping for new walls and oval conduit for chases in existing walls is the minimum standard as I was taught it.

It's people like you two that cost decent sparks work!

A year or so ago I lost a fairly lucrative contract because some bell end went in after first fix and started bad mouthing my work. The cheif complaint was that I hadn't capped the cables, that it was 'against regs' and I was a cowboy as a result!

I have never once used capping in a domestic rewire, I probably never will either unless someone specifically wants it. I use a damn good plasterer and he hasn't ever caused damage to any exposed cables. Also, the fact is, once skim coat or easifill is in, capping or no capping, they both look exactly the same!

When I rewire a place, I expect it to last 50 years. If the guy after me has to chase out when rewiring, so what?! I love it when I find a bit of reusable conduit in a switch drop, I consider it a lovely bonus, but I don't run around cursing the name of the last spark if there isn't anything reusable!?

 

[cobrauk]

Putting capping on is a pain in the bum when rewiring as you have to make all the chases 50% wider. It's not rough and nothing wrong with it, I do take a lot of care and doubt you would be ble to pick any faults as such with my rewires.

Any type of conduit/capping/ega tube gives you chance of pulling out and replacing any damaged cables try that with buried in plaster.
we always use ega tube as a rule

 

[Engineer54]

I forgot to maybe mention, that my house in Cyprus is completely installed with a embedded plastic conduit containment system (not the flexible crap, quality rigid conduit) and obviously all wired in singles. I hasten to mention that the house is a concrete framed brick/block infill with concrete floors... not the typical UK house construction. It does mean however, that you need to initially think about things very carefully, as well as considering what may be needed in the future. Hopefully i managed to cover everything, but only time will tell!!! lol!!

 

[davesparks]

It's people like you two that cost decent sparks work!

A year or so ago I lost a fairly lucrative contract because some bell end went in after first fix and started bad mouthing my work. The cheif complaint was that I hadn't capped the cables, that it was 'against regs' and I was a cowboy as a result!

I have never once used capping in a domestic rewire, I probably never will either unless someone specifically wants it. I use a damn good plasterer and he hasn't ever caused damage to any exposed cables. Also, the fact is, once skim coat or easifill is in, capping or no capping, they both look exactly the same!

When I rewire a place, I expect it to last 50 years. If the guy after me has to chase out when rewiring, so what?! I love it when I find a bit of reusable conduit in a switch drop, I consider it a lovely bonus, but I don't run around cursing the name of the last spark if there isn't anything reusable!?

I'm afraid we will have to agree to disagree on this one.

When I was an apprentice I was taught that you always cap or pipe t&e under plaster.
I can remember being taught in college that t&e must not come in to contact with wet cement, and I wonder if it was all born out of that? Seeing as how basecoat plaster used to be sand and cement. And sometimes you still do get walls plastered with sand and cement.

And on many occasions I have been thankful that we did use pipe as things have had to change or be repaired later.
On one occasion we had a cable manufacturing fault and had to replace a bit after the chases were filled. Ok so you could argue that it doesn't matter as the cable maker has to pay for the work whatever you have to do, but I'm sure the client wouldn't agree that re chasing a wall would have been better.

But I also wouldn't have bad mouthed your work to your client. If they had asked my opinion for whatever reason I would politely decline to pass comment whatever my opinion of your methods. Obviously if I was asked for an opinion on something downright dangerous I would say something.

 

[D Skelton]

I'm afraid we will have to agree to disagree on this one.

When I was an apprentice I was taught that you always cap or pipe t&e under plaster.
I can remember being taught in college that t&e must not come in to contact with wet cement, and I wonder if it was all born out of that? Seeing as how basecoat plaster used to be sand and cement. And sometimes you still do get walls plastered with sand and cement.

And on many occasions I have been thankful that we did use pipe as things have had to change or be repaired later.
On one occasion we had a cable manufacturing fault and had to replace a bit after the chases were filled. Ok so you could argue that it doesn't matter as the cable maker has to pay for the work whatever you have to do, but I'm sure the client wouldn't agree that re chasing a wall would have been better.

But I also wouldn't have bad mouthed your work to your client. If they had asked my opinion for whatever reason I would politely decline to pass comment whatever my opinion of your methods. Obviously if I was asked for an opinion on something downright dangerous I would say something.

I get what you're saying, but it is this constant rhetoric by people that should really know better, that t+e without capping is dog rough. It isn't!! It is entirely down to personal preference, and to say otherwise is what is feeding this general consensus amonst the less skilled electricians, that any other way is wrong.

You only need to run yer mouth a few times in the wholesaler that not capping cables is cowboy'esq, and thick people will take it literally! Then people like me lose work!

 

[Deleted member 9648]

Capping is not really suitable for chased out walls,it never sits flat in the chase. Fine on bare blockwork though. 20mm plastic chased in on rewires is our standard practice,taken into the box and finished above ceiling level. Each to their own but I have to agree with Davesparks,T/E plastered straight in is an unprofessional job IMO.

 

[Engineer54]

To be honest, i too think it's ''dog rough'' and i'm not too keen on capping (of any kind), or the oval conduit!! But it doesn't really matter what i or the many others here think, if it's not written down in black and white then you can do whatever you like. I'm pretty sure it wouldn't pass muster on a specified project/job...

 

[Andy78]

Horses for courses, time and a place and all that.

Sometimes I use capping, sometimes I clip, sometimes I use conduit. Totally depends on the job. If I have bare walls I will be more inclined to use capping. If inside stud walls I prefer to use conduit.
If I am making a slim chase then I have no problem using clips and filling over the top of it. Agreed it's not installed to the highest standards, but it certainly isn't rough by any means.

It makes no difference to be installed behind capping or embedded in plaster, once it's in, it's in. I certainly don't view a capped cable as rewirable by any means.

 

[shanky887614]

Capping is not really suitable for chased out walls,it never sits flat in the chase. Fine on bare blockwork though. 20mm plastic chased in on rewires is our standard practice,taken into the box and finished above ceiling level. Each to their own but I have to agree with Davesparks,T/E plastered straight in is an unprofessional job IMO.

?

are you saying you struggle to get a chase flat?

mine are perfectly square and when I use capping it sits perfectly flat, doesnt matter if I use hammer and bolster or grinder and sds

 

[Deleted member 9648]

?

are you saying you struggle to get a chase flat?

mine are perfectly square and when I use capping it sits perfectly flat, doesnt matter if I use hammer and bolster or grinder and sds

I'm saying with capping the chase needs to be wider than I want to chase it out, capping is more of a faf to get to fit, and less satisfactory than tube. If you are going to cut it out wide enough for capping why not make a far better job of it using conduit with a narrower,slightly deeper chase? I use a twin blade cutter with a vacuum attatchment,no mess...easy make good...and a tube I know can be rewired/altered or whatever without damage in the future.

 

[7029 dave]

I like to use slip tube, not really, not that old.lol Those old boys!! must have taken ages to fit out under the floor boards etc, deffo was an art.!!

 

[shanky887614]

I like to use slip tube, not really, not that old.lol Those old boys!! must have taken ages to fit out under the floor boards etc, deffo was an art.!!

that the old pipe with wooden ends?

 

[7029 dave]

that the old pipe with wooden ends?

Not quite, it was an complete conduit system, tee boxes, elbows, etc no threading all screw compression, run in VIR singles.

 

[shanky887614]

Not quite, it was an complete conduit system, tee boxes, elbows, etc no threading all screw compression, run in VIR singles.

only seen it once in an old loft but didnt see any bends/boxes as a lot had been ripped out

 

[Dcf]

I have always used conduit in raggles usually PVC but sometimes steel.
capping is more of a faff and has little protection.
i went to a job that the old wife wanted 3 wall lights done seperate switch req.
2 walls lath and plaster could get down them.
switch wall solid brick.
took the switch off to find the twin had been buried in the wall and not tubed.
if it was tubed I could have dropped a sw wire down it and not disturbed any decor.
as it stood it was gonna make a mess so job did not go ahead.
all due to someone previous cutting corners in my eyes.
the op point of can he wire a house in flexi conduit?
yeah sure you can you'll be there a while mind...

 

[vmgbarra]

but what about plastering over flexipipe and singles, mechanical protection is provided, is there alternative to awful t+e?

 

[vmgbarra]

flexipipe installation buried in wall

l

 

[Andy78]

but what about plastering over flexipipe and singles, mechanical protection is provided, is there alternative to awful t+e?

What's so awful about T+E ? And what sort of mechanical protection are you imagining flexible conduit would provide ?

 

[davesparks]

depends on the flexible conduit used really,

if its the bog-roll thin plastic ribbed carp then not much at all, but if its decent old school Kopex type then it would be quite good protection (if hellishly expensive)

 

[Andy78]

depends on the flexible conduit used really,

if its the bog-roll thin plastic ribbed carp then not much at all, but if its decent old school Kopex type then it would be quite good protection (if hellishly expensive)

Ahuh. Decent metal Kopex would probably work out ten times more the cost of heavy duty rigid PVC and not offer any more significant degree of mechanical impact protection. The only thing that will stop a drill, screw, or nail is rigid steel conduit.
By the time the OP has buggered about with his flexi pipe idea, he may as well have put in a fully tubed rigid steel system I reckon.

 

[davesparks]

Even steel conduit wont stop the most determined of carpenters with a brand new drill bit!

No matter how idiot proof you make a system there is always a bigger idiot waiting in the wings!

 

[Andy78]

Even steel conduit wont stop the most determined of carpenters with a brand new drill bit!

No matter how idiot proof you make a system there is always a bigger idiot waiting in the wings!

Very true. There are some brutish oafs around.
I thought the OP was getting at the sort of mechanical protection that would negate the use of RCDs for buried cables, which metal flexi would not.

 

[D Skelton]

Very true. There are some brutish oafs around.
I thought the OP was getting at the sort of mechanical protection that would negate the use of RCDs for buried cables, which metal flexi would not.

You don't need mechanical protection to negate the use of RCDs, just an earthed metallic armour or screen will do. That's what flexishield is for, built to BS 8436, or SWA.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

If the OP wants to use flexible conduit then crack on....nothing wrong with it at all. Good luck with that one though,you are going to need it.

 

[trev]

You might want to rewire your house in gold cables insulated with aardvarks, as long as the regs don't say no then crack on. If you want to rewire someone else's in those materials you may find your quote puts you out of the running.
Same with flex conduit.

 

[Andy78]

You don't need mechanical protection to negate the use of RCDs, just an earthed metallic armour or screen will do. That's what flexishield is for, built to BS 8436, or SWA.

Thanks for that. Just had to re-read 522.6 though to see where I had gone wrong. Never used the flexi shield stuff yet.

 

[trev]

I should probably add that I have never conducted an IR test on an aardvark so I have no idea as to their conductivity or their value as an insulator.

 

[D Skelton]

I should probably add that I have never conducted an IR test on an aardvark so I have no idea as to their conductivity or their value as an insulator.

0.51Mohms per meter mate. A female aardvark comes in at around 0.64Mohms per meter though. You'd be better off using platypus however, this brings in a stonking 1.52Mohms per meter on average. A cracking insulator if you ask me!

 

[trev]

0.51Mohms per meter mate. A female aardvark comes in at around 0.64Mohms per meter though. You'd be better off using platypus however, this brings in a stonking 1.52Mohms per meter on average. A cracking insulator if you ask me!

Thanks Damian, I'm not going to ask about the circumstances behind those test results mate. I honestly think there are some things I'm better off not knowing.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

0.51Mohms per meter mate. A female aardvark comes in at around 0.64Mohms per meter though. You'd be better off using platypus however, this brings in a stonking 1.52Mohms per meter on average. A cracking insulator if you ask me!

All the females I've tried to test have a much higher resistance than that......someone suggested they offer less resistance in Grimsby,if anyone can confirm that I'll book a trip.

 

[trev]

All the females I've tried to test have a much higher resistance than that......someone suggested they offer less resistance in Grimsby,if anyone can confirm that I'll book a trip.

So you've tested a lot of female aardvarks mate?


I really don't want to know any details.

 

[Andy78]

All the females I've tried to test have a much higher resistance than that......someone suggested they offer less resistance in Grimsby,if anyone can confirm that I'll book a trip.

Being not far from Grimsby I can confirm the supplied information is true. The low resistance seems to be from the amount of rods they have had installed into them.
I would however not suggest a trip there under any circumstance other than under strong sedatives.