Formal Visual - Pass Sticker?

[sweetcheeks82]

Thanks for your replies. maybe i was a bit quick in my question.
I am having to start from scratch as no previous records from electricians.
eg. Class 1 Portable appliance in commercial kitchen.
Visual = pass. Combined I&T = pass = Green pass sticker Combined I&T is yearly
Formal visual is every 6 months. In 6 months time when i do the formal visual (for arguments sake it passes) i will use a Blue pass formal visual sticker but do i remove the Green pass sticker for electrical test?

 

[Adam W]

Leave it there until the next test.

 

[Adam W]

The IET disagree with you.

The code of practice for II&TEE is a code of best practice, not a statutory document. The HSE (the people who prosecute if it all goes wrong) say you don't actually need PAT testing at all.

I know what the IET say, but the reality is businesses just want a sticker as cheaply as possible, maybe without a complete understanding of what they're paying for. It's bad enough as it is with these '50p per item sticker slappers' without encouraging them.

 

[Grizzly01]

The HSE (the people who prosecute if it all goes wrong) say you don't actually need PAT testing at all.

Well no, that really isn't the case at all, is it?
Point us towards where the HSE say that, but if the guidance you quote is just for low-risk environments, I'll call you out on it...

 

[Adam W]

Well no, that really isn't the case at all, is it?
Point us towards where the HSE say that, but if the guidance you quote is just for low-risk environments, I'll call you out on it...

http://www.hse.gov.uk/myth/july.pdf

 

[oldtimer]

My understanding it is combined visual and testing but the duty holder who is in charge of PAT testing for the building is supposed to have a system in place to do visual checks on equipment or basically a tick box exercise

 

[Grizzly01]

http://www.hse.gov.uk/myth/july.pdf

Nope, that doesn't back up what you stated in the slightest.
Try again.

 

[Adam W]

Nope, that doesn't back up what you stated in the slightest.
Try again.

Well, it does. The whole point of PAT testing is to make sure equipment is 'adequately maintained' in accordance with EAWR, it doesn't say anything about having someone going around putting 2 stickers on everything.

 

[Grizzly01]

No, it doesn't. Re-read the thread if you need reminding of what you wrote (it's not too far up).

Then read this PAT (Portable appliance testing) - HSE's answers to popular questions to see why it doesn't agree with your blanket statement.

 

[Adam W]

OK, it says:

"the Regulations do not specify what needs to be done, by whom or how frequently (ie they don't make inspection or testing of electrical appliances a legal requirement, nor do they make it a legal requirement to undertake this annually)."

And
"Is Portable Appliance Testing (PAT) compulsory?
No."

Seems quite clear to me.

 

[Grizzly01]

Over-simplistic & naive

:sad:​

 

[Adam W]

Realistic. Who wants to have to pay someone to disrupt their business every few months to check the plugs on a load of low-risk appliances and stick two stickers on everything?
The only person it benefits is the jobsworth doing it, because it keeps them in busywork.

 

[oldtimer]

Totally agree with you Adam things have moved on ie years ago when you bought a washing machine you had to buy a plug top now everything comes with a plug top so PAT needs to catch up problem is these companies have a revenue stream and they aint going to let it go anytime soon

 

[NDG Elecs]

Given the carp quality of a lot of manufactured goods these days, there is absolutely no way I would label something as fine that has not been properly tested. But then again I dont (thankfully!) PAT. :hurray:

 

[Grizzly01]

... check the plugs on a load of low-risk appliances...

There it is.
You're making very general statements, but when it comes down to it, referring only to a specific part.
Think wider, and if you can't, don't make such umbrella statements.

(FWIW, I totally agree with you, for low-risk environments).

 

[Adam W]

It's the same for a "high risk" environment though - are you expecting to be able to go around a construction site and stop everybody working for half an hour or so or get them to lug all their power tools out of their van every 3 months so you can test their electrical equipment? Not only that but do it every month so you can have a 'formal' look at it all and slap another sticker on everything? Aside from some slightly frayed sheath on 110v extension cables the majority of it is fine anyway, and the guys whose equipment it is often tell you it's never been tested.
I still maintain that "formal visual inspections" are just unnecessary busywork which aren't required by law and in the majority of cases the frequency of combined inspection and testing can be reduced.

 

[Grizzly01]

... are you expecting to be able to go around a construction site and stop everybody working for half an hour or so or get them to lug all their power tools out of their van every 3 months so you can test their electrical equipment? Not only that but do it every month so you can have a 'formal' look at it all and slap another sticker on everything?

If the duty holder has decided that is what is required, then yes, obviously.
If they haven't, then no.

 

[Adam W]

If the duty holder has decided that is what is required, then yes, obviously.
If they haven't, then no.

So it's all down to the duty holder now is it?
Very non-committal.

 

[Grizzly01]

So now you don't like what the HSE say!
Make yer mind up.

 

[oldtimer]

So now you don't like what the HSE say!
Make yer mind up.

No I think like all of us don't like the fudge they have brought out so big companies cannot dictate test periods hence the onus is on the duty holder. Me thinks moving the goalposts spring to mind on this