Has Electrician made a mistake with height?

[LCV]

Hi,

As part of a full house renovation the house was completely rewired. I asked the Electrician to fit the plug sockets in the home office at a high level so that the printers sitting on the cabinets can easily be plugged into them. The plug sockets would be concealed by the printers.

I did not specify the height to the Electrician and neither did he ask me. He has finished doing the 2nd fix and I've now noticed that he has positioned the sockets to be the same height as the light switches which of course is far too high and looks really silly. The plug sockets are about 30cm higher than it needs to be.

What is your view on this?

Thanks.

 

[Wonderwall]

The electrician has my sympathies here. He has obviously installed them at the height he thought you required them, keeping them at switch height for aesthetic reasons. What height are your switches? Is it the old height of around 1300mm or are they around the 1metre mark? The latter dosent seem to bad.

 

[NDG Elecs]

In my view it should have discussed between the both of you where the sockets were to be placed. So poor communications all around. Your electrician is not a mind reader, but saying that, if one of my clients stipulated a 'non standard' height for some sockets I would ask exactly where to put them.

If the cables are coming from below then it should not be too much hassle to reposition them, obviously some minor plastering and redeco would be then needed.

 

[ruston]

My view is that you should have designed the circuit and specifically told the electrician the heights you required, as only you would know this.
Printers can be quite high and he may have deemed the heights adequate.

 

[LCV]

So he should have asked me before he put them in as they are a non-standard height? The printers sink on cabinets that are desk height.

I am a lay person so thought there was a standard height for high level plugs in the same way there is a standard height for low level plugs. That is why I didn't specify the height in my plans that I gave him.

 

[Darkwood]

I would suggest a breakdown in communication has occured, in his position I personally would have confirmed the height with yourself before commiting to it, slightly unprofessional in their approach to the work but it may have been a genuine mis-understanding.
In the trade we have 2 standard heights, low level and desktop/worktop level, as you ask for the sockets to be higher so you can easily access them he may have interpreted this to mean higher than the standard.. again, I think its an error on his part not to confirm or discuss the exact height before commiting to it.

This IMHO is a 50/50 call where both yourself and your electrician are equally at fault if you find that they are too high, how you go about resolving this maybe to meet each other in the middle and come to a compromise.

A few questions may slide the blame either way like was the sockets clearly positions on first fix where the issue could have been addressed a lot easier, did you not see the positions at any point during the installation or was the work started and completed before you saw the outcome?

 

[joehat]

Don't blame the sparky, your both at fault, he used his judgement, you both are at fault. And in theory, he's put sockets in if no specification was made to specifics, then he has done what you paid him to do in my opinion!!

 

[davesparks]

If you had asked me for high level sockets then you'd have got them fitted 6" below ceiling level unless otherwise specified.
If you'd specified above desk height or above worktop height you'd have got them put at those heights (standard worktop height is around 900mm and standard desk height is around 750mm)
The last home office I wired the printer was sited on top of the filing cabinet so the socket was put in at around 5' above floor level.

If you have supplied a plan with no better specification than 'high level' then you can't really complain!
There isn't really a standard height for low level sockets either, there is a traditional height of 1' to the centre (or bottom depending on opinion) there is a required height for new builds, a different required height for new builds specifically intended for disabled people etc etc etc

 

[LCV]

I gave him plans that showed a bird's eye view of the layout of the home office and roughly where the plugs are to be positioned (not height) so e.g. either side of a double bed and behind the TV etc. He knew that I did the plans myself and during the renovation he had asked for me specific locations for switches and plug sockets but for some reason he didn't for these ones. I thought there was a standard desktop height but agree that we are both at fault. Do you think I should pay him to have them moved?

I didn't notice until now because of the scale of the renovation. The house is over 4 floors and was being completely guttered so I had lots of things to do, materials to order and check and much bigger problems then this to deal with. I also have a young child and baby to look after and we don't live on site.

 

[ruston]

Post 3 is a likely solution . It is not the end of the world.
If you are happy with the rest of the job , just take it on the chin.

 

[Andy78]

Yes he needs paying to alter the sockets now. It was a large job and in the absence of any specific drawing or instruction as to the height he made an executive decision to maintain the continuity of progress on the job. It should not be too big or costly a job I would imagine.

 

[Wonderwall]

I'm am assuming this is an office in your house? Is 30 cm too high really such an issue? It's going to be surrounded by printers etc. I'm sure it's honest mistakes on both parts. You have said yourself you have had a lot on your plate so maybe didn't make it clear.
different if it was in your kitchen or some fancy room , but an office, I would be tempted to live with it.

 

[Geordie Spark]

My view on this??????

The electrician may be a very good electrician but he's absolute crap as a mind reader.

 

[LCV]

Oh no, definitely not the end of the world especially as it has renovation has taken nearly a year. There are a few other issues with his work such as the dimmable LED strip light not dimming so perhaps he can sort them all out in one go.

Thank you for all your replies. I just wondered whether it was my fault or the Electrician's fault. Okay, I will speak to him about how it is going to be resolved and work out who is going to pay the decorator. It is tricky because the wall has recently been wallpapered.

 

[LCV]

The home office is in the living room so it is on display. The current height means I will have a 30cm cord trailing down to each printer that sit on the desk level cabinets. I am having wall units above the desk level cabinets so they can not stay in this position.

yes I agree that he is not a mind reader but he could have asked me. I am only a phone call away. He knew the sockets were for home office equipment as I gave him plans that showed him the location of all the furniture.

 

[slingshot2000]

It is tricky because the wall has recently been wallpapered.

Do you mean to say you didn't see the heights of the sockets after the boxes were first fixed and have only now noticed after the room has been decorated??
How often have you visited the site?

 

[LCV]

I am on site often. The room is completely empty and the wall doesn't have anything else on it apart from these two plug sockets so looking at the wall I didn't notice that something was wrong because there isn't anything to gauge the height with. I just assumed he put them in at the standard height for desktop equipment.

Is there a standard or recommended height of where plug sockets should be located for desktop equipment?

 

[LCV]

As qualified Electricians, would you ever position plug sockets specifically for desktop equipment 55cm higher than the equipment? He has made a judgement call and did it this way but I am wondering how many people would actually do it like this.

 

[Geordie Spark]

The home office is in the living room so it is on display. The current height means I will have a 30cm cord trailing down to each printer that sit on the desk level cabinets. I am having wall units above the desk level cabinets so they can not stay in this position.

yes I agree that he is not a mind reader but he could have asked me. I am only a phone call away. He knew the sockets were for home office equipment as I gave him plans that showed him the location of all the furniture.

and you didn't think to mark the positions and heights of the sockets on the drawing???

I have a home office as well with 2 printers & a Fax machine in it. These are on a shelf which is 4 feet from floor level. The position that your man fitted your sockets would be just fine for me.

The point I am trying to make is you say "He knew the sockets were for home office equipment" but this is no use as he could have reasonably thought your printers etc were going to be the same height as mine.

I conclude that this is in no way ANY fault of the electricians!! (it hurts me to say that because I do like to have a little dig at them! :laugh

 

[LCV]

As I keep saying the height was not marked because I thought there was a standard height for sockets for desk level equipment.

My question to you is if you were putting your equipment at desk level what height would you have positioned the sockets?

 

[Phil Thompson]

I'd say it's your fault, you neglected to give heights, you neglected to address the situation at first fix, you then neglected to address it at 2nd fix, you then neglected to address it before decorating.

High level is Light switch height, low level is 12" from floor to bottom of box, and mid level is worktop height.

You stated high level and now you realise you should have said mid level, there's no excuse at all IMHO that gets you out of the wallpapering issue, as there is no way that you couldn't realise they were too high before that if they're at light switch height.

Just one of those things in life that you gotta take it on the chin, realise you made an error and stop trying to find excuses to blame the tradesman for doing exactly what you requested and for you letting it get to the point where your new wallpaper is going to be damaged.

That might sound harsh, but it's what I'd have done and assumed you were putting in one of the desks the printer sits on a shelf above the monitor, when you were asking for high level.


If you had wanted worktop/desktop height then that's what you should have stated instead of high level, the fact you made your own plan would have me believing you knew what you were requesting, so no need to question anything.

Hope that helps

 

[Octopus]

Not taking sides here BUT when ever a customer asks me for something "non standard" like this I will mark the wall and check that they are happy.

Why didn't you notice this before the room was plastered? let alone before it was wall papered!

 

[plantpot]

It's the electricians fault and you should get it changed for free.

There now you can tell him you researched the internet and found this.its all you asked the question for anyway!.

 

[Octopus]

As I keep saying the height was not marked because I thought there was a standard height for sockets for desk level equipment.

My question to you is if you were putting your equipment at desk level what height would you have positioned the sockets?

Where the customer tells me to put them....

 

[telectrix]

it's only 2 sockets, FFS, not the end of civilisation.

 

[rolyberkin]

What do they say, assumed makes an --- out of you and me!

The learning here is you as the client needs to state at what height you wnat things placed, I have made similar mistakes numerous times when I have not had site visits with contractors and have assumed they knew what I was talking about or wanted. The plugs can be moved so not the end of the world and a bit of decorating is perhaps required. Personally I would not get hung up on who is to blame and just get it rectified. I don't think you have any case for forcing him to do the work again for free as this should have been picked up by you prior to decoration or on the day or so after he finished the work. A snall claim in my opinion is throwing good money after bad.

Personally to avoid these type of issues I get people to do me a quick sketch as to where they want things with heights agreed, this way there is no argument later.

 

[gutterball]

If you told me high above cabinets, I would be thinking filing cabinets in an office. So about light switch height.

 

[Spoon]

Hi OP.

It does sound like you are trying to blame someone other than yourself. As you have mentioned yourself "I didn't notice that something was wrong because there isn't anything to gauge the height with."

How did you expect the electrician to know exactly what height to put the socket at, you didn't know until the furniture was in by the sound of it?

It was bad planning. Maybe he should have asked you specific questions for each height of each socket. Not the guys fault in my opinion. Get him to fix it. You pay. Do you not have a strip of wallpaper left over to do the socket part again?

He can fix this while doing the other things you want looking at.

 

[telectrix]

for the sake of a hour or 2 labour, pay him to lower the sockets. hang a couple of small photos of the missus and kids over the holes or line them out and have a couple of niches.

 

[andyb]

6 of 1, half a dozen of the other in my opinion.

The electrician probably should of asked for the height, but it's easily done. The sockets have been there for all to see from first fix, to plastering to second fix and then decorating. You've had plenty of chances to ask for them to be moved.

For what it's worth, if it was my job I'd be happy to drop the sockets at no cost, but I wouldn't expect to pay for any redecorating. That would be up to the client unless I'd been told a specific height and I'd put them in the wrong place.

 

[telectrix]

6 of 1, half a dozen of the other in my opinion.

The electrician probably should of asked for the height, but it's easily done. The sockets have been there for all to see from first fix, to plastering to second fix and then decorating. You've had plenty of chances to ask for them to be moved.

For what it's worth, if it was my job I'd be happy to drop the sockets at no cost, but I wouldn't expect to pay for any redecorating. That would be up to the client unless I'd been told a specific height and I'd put them in the wrong place.

on a major job like this appears to be, i'd do exactly the same. basically a bit of snagging, but as you say, customer to be responsible for decor repair.

 

[Wonderwall]

What is your electricians take on all this?

 

[telectrix]

i'd like to think that he'd do as my last post and andy's last post. maybe we'll hear a sensible resolution from OP.

 

[Spoon]

From what I've seen of the OPs posts so far it looks like he is trying to blame the electrician 100%. Yes, Andy's & Tels suggestions would be the best.
The OP also says "There are a few other issues with his work such as the dimmable LED strip light not dimming so perhaps he can sort them all out in one go." Besides the light what are the other issues?

 

[Hawk]

How come you didn't notice at first fix?

 

[Spoon]

How come you didn't notice at first fix?

Have a look the OP's post #17. As I've mentioned in my previous post, it looks like he didn't know what height he wanted until the furniture was in.

 

[NDG Elecs]

I think they are both to blame...so the spark should lower the sockets free of charge (especially given its a big job, goodwill and all that), and the customer can pay for redecoration. Ultimately the customer should check things are to their satisfaction before getting walls decorated etc. If you don't want tomatoes in your chicken salad sarnie you gotta articulate it!

Doh, just realised I am repeating what others said a few posts back....

 

[Risteard]

I think they are both to blame...

In fairness we have only heard one side of the story!

 

[telectrix]

mountains and molehills spring to mind here.

 

[Diddy]

Lol well I blame the op 95%. There is NO WAY I would move for free and to be even considering "See who pays for the redecorating".....Im glad it was not me as I would get the feeling that my customer was trying to blame me for his shortcomings AND worse than that getting ME to pay for them.
Your only defense here is that you "thought" that there was a standard height for such things....Well now you know there isn't - Do that sort of research 1st OR just measure up properly and give out proper plans. As for a light not dimming....faulty light fitting - not his nor your fault im sure if he supplied he will replace FOC.....but again if YOU supplied it would have to be paid for. Im sorry if this post comes across as harsh but i felt these things need stating.
I would bet that ALL of the electricians here have been in the situation where someone was vague with the usual problem of needing to keep working to get the job done (after all time is money especially if you are in danger of running into the next day ect ect.) Yes ideally the client is reachable but again the electrician doesn't know it's a problem given the vague description.

 

[Hawk]

The easiest solution is to get bigger cabinets!!

 

[ruston]

Lol well I blame the op 95%. There is NO WAY I would move for free and to be even considering "See who pays for the redecorating".....Im glad it was not me as I would get the feeling that my customer was trying to blame me for his shortcomings AND worse than that getting ME to pay for them.
Your only defense here is that you "thought" that there was a standard height for such things....Well now you know there isn't - Do that sort of research 1st OR just measure up properly and give out proper plans. As for a light not dimming....faulty light fitting - not his nor your fault im sure if he supplied he will replace FOC.....but again if YOU supplied it would have to be paid for. Im sorry if this post comes across as harsh but i felt these things need stating.
I would bet that ALL of the electricians here have been in the situation where someone was vague with the usual problem of needing to keep working to get the job done (after all time is money especially if you are in danger of running into the next day ect ect.) Yes ideally the client is reachable but again the electrician doesn't know it's a problem given the vague description.

It's when you see them back-peddling when they have forgot about essential items they need in their newly designed kitchen, and the first fix is done, that this is very true.

 

[Geordie Spark]

What is your electricians take on all this?

He probably thinks the OP is a t!t. :devilish:

 

[Adam W]

You say that as a 'lay-person' you have assumed that 'high level' constitutes a standard height, and by the sound of it the electrician has put the sockets at a standard height, but I would assume that someone wanting something at a specific height would specify that height, and that someone who is drawing up plans would be more than a 'lay-person'.
If you had wanted the sockets at a height of 'above worktop height' then perhaps you should have stated that instead of specifying 'high level'.

As others have said I consider this to be your mistake. It shouldn't be difficult to rectify and if you speak to your electrician nicely he may agree to move them FOC, but you might find if you start stamping your feet and demanding things he might put his foot down and charge you for the alteration.

 

[Lagentium]

It's amazing how many times this situation arises and it always baffles me as to why it never gets picked up after the first fix has finished, which would be the ideal time to check everything before it becomes an absolute ball ache to change or move!!

 

[Flanders]

This is the standured hights Height for electrical sockets etc in the UK

 

[NDG Elecs]

In fairness we have only heard one side of the story!

We have, and yes there are always at least two sides to a story, agreed. But I will say again that if a customer specified some sockets at a different height than normal I would ask at what height. If the customer did not then tell me I would maybe do what the OPs spark then did and align them with switch plates. It is generally not that hard to find out what the finer details are in some plans.

 

[LCV]

Thanks for everyone's replies. It is good to hear different views.

From your replies there doesn't appear to be a standard height for desk level plugs so for that reason I agree with those that say the Electrician should have asked me exactly where I wanted them to be located. I do think it is both our faults as we both made assumptions which is never a not a good idea. He made an assumption about where I wanted them located. And I assumed that as a professional he would know where plugs sockets needed to go for DESK LEVEL equipment (not equipment located on a shelf above the monitor or above my head or on tall cabinets etc. but printers that sit on a bank of desk height cabinets that are located along the wall behind the desk). It is my mistake that I did not notice the height until now.

We both just need to talk and reach an agreement on how the issue should be rectified. We are human and we all make mistakes. That is life. This is my first renovation project so live and learn and compared with everything else I've had to deal with along the way I am certainly not losing any sleep over this non-issue.

I am relieved to hear that it is easily fixable. That is good to know so thanks for letting me know about that.

 

[Phil Thompson]

Hi,

As part of a full house renovation the house was completely rewired. I asked the Electrician to fit the plug sockets in the home office at a high level so that the printers sitting on the cabinets can easily be plugged into them. The plug sockets would be concealed by the printers.

I did not specify the height to the Electrician and neither did he ask me. He has finished doing the 2nd fix and I've now noticed that he has positioned the sockets to be the same height as the light switches which of course is far too high and looks really silly. The plug sockets are about 30cm higher than it needs to be.

What is your view on this?

Thanks.

Thanks for everyone's replies. It is good to hear different views.

From your replies there doesn't appear to be a standard height for desk level plugs so for that reason I agree with those that say the Electrician should have asked me exactly where I wanted them to be located. I do think it is both our faults as we both made assumptions which is never a not a good idea. He made an assumption about where I wanted them located. And I assumed that as a professional he would know where plugs sockets needed to go for DESK LEVEL equipment (not equipment located on a shelf above the monitor or above my head or on tall cabinets etc. but printers that sit on a bank of desk height cabinets that are located along the wall behind the desk). It is my mistake that I did not notice the height until now.

We both just need to talk and reach an agreement on how the issue should be rectified. We are human and we all make mistakes. That is life. This is my first renovation project so live and learn and compared with everything else I've had to deal with along the way I am certainly not losing any sleep over this non-issue.

I am relieved to hear that it is easily fixable. That is good to know so thanks for letting me know about that.

Hi just wanted to check,

So did you ask for HIGH LEVEL like you stated in your original post, or did you ask for DESK LEVEL as you try to emphasise in your last post.

Its seems to me, though I could be wrong, but from your posts, that you blame the electrician, whilst what you are saying reads more like you are to blame really. Especially now changing your wording to us, is that how you intend to try to get it fixed for free?

I know now, myself, that if someone came to me and said "I know I said high level, but I suppose I should have said mid/desk/worktop level, would it be hard to move them down 12"?"

Offer to pay, if the job is paying well and was quite large, I'd likely do it for free. However portray that it's not your fault and I'd say, well you told me high level and that's what you got, so if you need them moved it will cost you £---.

Though if you said desk level like in your last post, then it would be the electricians fault.

Although in regards to decorating repairs. That can only be down to you, as you have had plenty of opportunities to get it fixed prior to decorating, and you said you were on site often, so should really have been checking over things at each stage. Of all trades, not just the Sparks.

 

[Wonderwall]

To the letter of the law, your sparky is correct in as much as your appliance should not really obstruct it's means of isolation. I notice that you have not commented on his take of it all , which leads mean to suspect he lays the blame at your door , rightly or wrongly.
im assuming you have self managed this project, so to wait until the wall is wallpapered before you point out the fault really says a lot I think. To even think he should cover cost of redecoration appears a tad cheeky I think.
i may be wrong.