Increase mcb capacity. Notifiable?

[GMES]

The thing is, the OP is more interested in fitting a new DB rather finding either the fault or clamping the circuit and seeing what it is actually pulling.

No offence meant to the op here but if he did a short course, then he probably doesn't even know what a clamp is, they don't show them.
Not saying he is a short course guy.

 

[topquark]

BS951 clamp? :54:

 

[spynage]

Were all r1, rn and r2 all broken? Maybe it would be suitable to separate into two 20A radials to increase capacity depending where loading is. It is always a good idea to add RCD protection to socket outlets when opportunity arises. I agree RCD add ons is untidy. Do it right with a new CU. I talk them round and upgrade 3036 / 1361 boards whenever I see them in houses.

Thanks. That's my thinking exactly, particuarly as the customer indicated that the rest of the electrics were in disaray. Just R1 actually
I said I was in a hurry and didnt have time to fully test the circuit.

It was the precence of the 20amp MCB that made me assume it hsf been fitted as a last resort. There was 2 wires in the fuse clamp.

I still dont know wether changing the type of circuit arrangment and increasing the circuit breaker cspacity is notifiable? Is there a reg that could help me in this respect? How much of a circuit amendment does it constitute?

 

[spynage]

The thing is, the OP is more interested in fitting a new DB rather finding either the fault or clamping the circuit and seeing what it is actually pulling.

Can I just point out your willfully ignoring the point of my post. I only want to know if increasing the MCB capacity is notifiable and only because I want to do the best by my customer for her to spend as little money as possible to rectify the problem. If I only wantef to change CU's day in day out I wouldn't come on here seeking enlightenment.

 

[trev]

So you have a "potential RFC" with only the r1 broken? and you're asking what the way forward is?

It needs to be sorted mate before you think about uprating a breaker. You have continuity on the other cables. That's a massive clue.

 

[davesparks]

It is a ring circuit with a fault, regardless of the size of the MCB.
Find the fault and fix it first, then discuss potential upgrades and improvements with the customer.

 

[Meggerman]

Thanks. That's my thinking exactly, particuarly as the customer indicated that the rest of the electrics were in disaray. Just R1 actually
I said I was in a hurry and didnt have time to fully test the circuit.

It was the precence of the 20amp MCB that made me assume it hsf been fitted as a last resort. There was 2 wires in the fuse clamp.

I still dont know wether changing the type of circuit arrangment and increasing the circuit breaker cspacity is notifiable? Is there a reg that could help me in this respect? How much of a circuit amendment does it constitute?

No, it is not notifiable under Part P, you can download Part P regulations for free if you don't want to buy guide. it is a repair to an existing circuit. It was a ring final in the first place which has been derated, you are carrying out a repair.

 

[davesparks]

How do you know it was a 32A ring to start with?
It is not all that uncommon to find 20A rings in instsllations, but don't ask me why people have installed them as I've yet to find one where it could be justified for volt drop reasons etc.

IMO altering the circuit from a 20A cct to a 32A cct is equivalent to creating a new cct as you would be starting from scratch with doing all design calcs before carrying out the work.

 

[Meggerman]

How do you know it was a 32A ring to start with?
It is not all that uncommon to find 20A rings in instsllations, but don't ask me why people have installed them as I've yet to find one where it could be justified for volt drop reasons etc.

IMO altering the circuit from a 20A cct to a 32A cct is equivalent to creating a new cct as you would be starting from scratch with doing all design calcs before carrying out the work.

In the time you had sat talking about design calcs on a STANDARD CIRCUIT, I would have found the break, rectified it, and on the the next one.... Bloody hell.....

 

[spynage]

No, it is not notifiable under Part P, you can download Part P regulations for free if you don't want to buy guide. it is a repair to an existing circuit. It was a ring final in the first place which has been derated, you are carrying out a repair.

Ok. It seems obvious it was a ring that was derated. I just wasn't sure if putting it right constituted something notifiable ad Im uprating the MCB.

For various reasons I didn't undertake a full investigation. I wasnt 100% about the customer and I didnt want to poke about reconnecting wires and pointing out what the problems were. I thought better to tske stock and quote her for the potential outcomes of the work. She is aware of the problem(s) and she now has a quote for both msking good the defective circuit and for any other potential work that may or may not include new wiring or perhaps a new CU

 

[davesparks]

You could find the break in under 2 minutes? We then I take my hat off to you.

But pray tell how do you know it is a standard circuit? As far as I know we have not been told the age if the installation so do not know if the cpcs are 1.5, 1.0 or even 3/029 for a start.
Not all rings conform to the standard circuits, the 20A MCB may be there for other reasons.

 

[Plonker 3]

Right, have you read the Part P document which lists notifiable work? That will give you the answer to your question. There really isn't any need for a 5 page thread when YOU 'could,have simply found the answer out for yourself.

 

[Plonker 3]

that may or may not include new wiring or perhaps a new CU

For gods sake you don't need to change a DB just because you have repaired a cable.

 

[davesparks]

But this is the modern world where people have to be told everything and independant thought is a relic of a bygone era.

 

[Plonker 3]

OP are you a electrician?
How long did your take to be qualified?

 

[trev]

OP are you a electrician?
How long did your take to be qualified?

4 Years!

 

[Meggerman]

Ok. It seems obvious it was a ring that was derated. I just wasn't sure if putting it right constituted something notifiable ad Im uprating the MCB.

For various reasons I didn't undertake a full investigation. I wasnt 100% about the customer and I didnt want to poke about reconnecting wires and pointing out what the problems were. I thought better to tske stock and quote her for the potential outcomes of the work. She is aware of the problem(s) and she now has a quote for both msking good the defective circuit and for any other potential work that may or may not include new wiring or perhaps a new CU

Definatly work a new DB in there as part of the quote. It will give her RCD protection and also comply if cable cpc is 1mm as you will have 60898 B32 MCB.

 

[Plonker 3]

Definatly work a new DB in there as part of the quote. It will give her RCD protection and also comply if cable cpc is 1mm as you will have 60898 B32 MCB.

Because of course, a whole installation has to comply with current regs the moment you carry out any work on it.

 

[Meggerman]

Because of course, a whole installation has to comply with current regs the moment you carry out any work on it.

No, because adding on an RCD to the old DB for just one circuit is untidy and becomes abortive work (and ultimately wastes clients money) when the DB gets upgraded down the line anyway.

 

[spynage]

OP are you a electrician?
How long did your take to be qualified?

A helpful response might garner a helpful reply. The part p document isn't clear on MCB upgrades and circuit arrangement changes. Thought I'd seek wisdom on here.