Live fire recall for lift..

[Steve Banjo]

Hi just wondering if anyone has has experiance of installing a live fire recall
For a new lift installation?

Any info on how it's done would be much appreciated.

 

[tazz]

Do you mean control of lift in the event of a building fire event

 

[Steve Banjo]

Hi tazz

Yes I do. Thanks.

 

[Darkwood]

Ive done one and is subject to strict regulation ... Your outside the scope of the BS7671 here so caution how you proceed.

The lift I did had 2 supplies MICC run in different routes both converging up at the base of the lift shaft up to the top floor of the escape stairwell to the control cab'.
The supplies on these MICC were independent of each other so the failure of one due to the fire would not render the other one useless (2 DNO supplies used)

The lift shaft and escape stairwell was an independent building connected to the end of the existing building, it was for evacuating physically and mentally disabled persons and took you directly down onto the street.

Before you slate me on running the wires in a lift shaft, I will repeat again this is outside the scope of the BS7671 and under other regulations.

You will have to work closely with the lift Engineers, Clerk of Electrical Works and Building Control..... this way all the info required will be given to you and you simply become the installer following a design, if your been asked to design it then walk, simply asking this question means your probably not in possesion and knowhow of the relative regulations.

 

[tazz]

Above is all good advice, if you are involved in the installation or supplies to the lift.
From a fire alarm point of view, your job would end installing a output relay in the lift machine room. And that would be job done...The rest would be upto the lift engineers to sort out. There will be 2 types of lifts installed, passenger, where the fire alarm will ground the lifts in the event of a fire. And fire fighting lift, which will ground, but can be overidden by the FB.

 

[Darkwood]

Arrh ... I see I may have misinterpreted the OP request relating to using a lift in a Fire scenario :juggle2:

 

[elevate]

We usually require volt free contacts (either n/o or n/c) from the fire system, terminated in the motor room close to our controllers. No wires can be run up the lift shaft on new lifts.

 

[UNG]

Great idea this driving the lifts to the ground floor as long as the fire isn't where people exit the lifts.
Heard something a little while ago that the H&S / fire officer asked for this facility to be overridden if the fire detector where the lifts exit was activated on a new building close to where I live

 

[tazz]

This is were a fire strategy plan/report comes in...the fire alarm and lift engineers would work on a cause & effects to conform to this plan.....so if ground floor lift lobby zone is activated, the lifts would stop were the are and lock...if ground floor is clear then they would ground. They often do the same with aircon, and zoning off plant.

 

[Knobhead]

I’m worried that the OP is asking this question in open forum. It’s far to specialised to give general information.

 

[elevate]

If there is a zonal fire alarm system. The lifts can be taken to any floor.

 

[DPG]

Interesting stuff this. Good to hear about stuff that's different to the norm. Daz

 

[tazz]

If there is a zonal fire alarm system. The lifts can be taken to any floor.

Once on that floor the usually like it to be taken out of service, can get quite complex when writing the cause & effects matrix.

 

[Harni]

Once on that floor the usually like it to be taken out of service, can get quite complex when writing the cause & effects matrix.

This. And the other issue is if the lift equipment could do this. Last year we had to interface our alarm with 2 new lifts going into a building so that it would drop to the lowest floor that wasn't in fire and go out of service. They were using Orona lifts who had used two different controllers for the two lifts. One we could do it with, the other the only facility was literally just ground it and open the doors which they really weren't happy with!

 

[elevate]

The lift will go to the programmed floor on fire recall then go out of service. The open door button in the car will still work. There is no reason why Orona could not achieve this, it can be done via software or relays added within the lift controller.

 

[elevate]

This. And the other issue is if the lift equipment could do this. Last year we had to interface our alarm with 2 new lifts going into a building so that it would drop to the lowest floor that wasn't in fire and go out of service. They were using Orona lifts who had used two different controllers for the two lifts. One we could do it with, the other the only facility was literally just ground it and open the doors which they really weren't happy with!

Were the lifts on fire recall or Fire fighting lifts.
Fire fighting lifts are totally different and quite complex.

 

[Harni]

Fire recall. To be honest, I had no faith in the guys installing them neither did the site management.
The building owners had just had another building done and the lift was installed by 2 northern chaps who seemed to really know their stuff but these ones on the site in question were done by 2 foreigners who barely spoke English and had no respect at all for the site or residents there.

 

[Knobhead]

Where's the OP?

 

[elevate]

Fire recall. To be honest, I had no faith in the guys installing them neither did the site management.
The building owners had just had another building done and the lift was installed by 2 northern chaps who seemed to really know their stuff but these ones on the site in question were done by 2 foreigners who barely spoke English and had no respect at all for the site or residents there.

Nothing to do with the installation guys, the test engineer should have been able to wire in or programme fire recall, its quite basic.

 

[Steve Banjo]

Morning all. Thanks for the information, some very interesting and informative replies.
Always impressed by the level of knowledge on this forum.