Discuss Melted Plug and Socket cause in the UK Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

zerozero7

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Hi all,
Washing machine plug and socket melted around Neutral pin. Whilst removing socket faceplate, noticed one brown wire was not in the terminal. May have come out of the terminal when pulling the socket forward or may have been out all the time.
Is this lose or disconnected live cable the 'definate' cause of the overheating on the neutral pin?
Thanks, Gary



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If the loose live wire was causing a problem, the heat damage would be showing around that terminal.

I think this has been caused be the neutral socket not having a good grip on the plug pins.
It can happen with older sockets, or ones that are plugged/unplugged constantly.
Can also happen if the sockets have had those plastic “child safety” shields fitted
 
That looks like the contacts between the plug and socket were not making proper contact.

It could be an undersized plug (cheap China incorrect size)

It could be oversized socket - poor quality socket (BG) or having an oversized plug inserted previously -- typically the ridiculous "child safety" things that reduce the safety, but the public uses.

It could be corroded contacts - usually the plug as the brass contacts get wet and go green, especially with stuff near washing machines, in garages etc.

Although the incoming connection may have been loose that actually wasn't the cause here - it does show that you probably need to get the installation checked properly though.
 
That looks like the contacts between the plug and socket were not making proper contact.

It could be an undersized plug (cheap China incorrect size)

It could be oversized socket - poor quality socket (BG) or having an oversized plug inserted previously -- typically the ridiculous "child safety" things that reduce the safety, but the public uses.

It could be corroded contacts - usually the plug as the brass contacts get wet and go green, especially with stuff near washing machines, in garages etc.

Although the incoming connection may have been loose that actually wasn't the cause here - it does show that you probably need to get the installation checked properly though.
why knock BG .I fitted loads, never any problems.
 
why knock BG .I fitted loads, never any problems.
So have I

But it isn't the best quality, and I probably wouldn't use one where it was subject to large loads such as a washing machine/dryer or where it would be plugged in/out a lot.

I have them in my own bedrooms and living rooms etc - to be fair mostly the usb versions, but within the kitchen and utility where there will be kettles and fryers plugged and unplugged and for the dishwasher and washing machine, I have used more premium examples.
 
we got kettle (3kW) and micro (1kW) in a double BG with usb. been in 6 years, no problems. in garage, washer, tumbler, 3 freezers all in 2 x BG doubles, extension lead for freezers.
 
Hi all,
Washing machine plug and socket melted around Neutral pin. Whilst removing socket faceplate, noticed one brown wire was not in the terminal. May have come out of the terminal when pulling the socket forward or may have been out all the time.
Is this lose or disconnected live cable the 'definate' cause of the overheating on the neutral pin?
Thanks, Gary

Hi Gary

Had the brown (Live) wire not been present you wouldn't have got much washing done ?.

The fact that it came out when withdrawing the front plate definitely indicates it wasn't tightened properly in the first place, and you have a cr@p installation.

So long as the wires aren't burned back beyond trimming distance this is no big deal. Just buy a decent quality new socket and replace it. Ditto a decent plug for the flex.

It might be worth gradually going round all your other sockets to check terminal tightness as well (switch off at the board first!). There's a bit of craft in getting the torque right - it should be firm, but not torqued down like the wheel nuts on a 44 ton truck! All that does is to strip the threads and/or cut through the copper cable.

Cheers and good luck, Mark.
 
Thanks all
Hi Gary

Had the brown (Live) wire not been present you wouldn't have got much washing done ?.

The fact that it came out when withdrawing the front plate definitely indicates it wasn't tightened properly in the first place, and you have a cr@p installation.

So long as the wires aren't burned back beyond trimming distance this is no big deal. Just buy a decent quality new socket and replace it. Ditto a decent plug for the flex.

It might be worth gradually going round all your other sockets to check terminal tightness as well (switch off at the board first!). There's a bit of craft in getting the torque right - it should be firm, but not torqued down like the wheel nuts on a 44 ton truck! All that does is to strip the threads and/or cut through the copper cable.

Cheers and good luck, Mark.

Hi Gary

Had the brown (Live) wire not been present you wouldn't have got much washing done ?.

The fact that it came out when withdrawing the front plate definitely indicates it wasn't tightened properly in the first place, and you have a cr@p installation.

So long as the wires aren't burned back beyond trimming distance this is no big deal. Just buy a decent quality new socket and replace it. Ditto a decent plug for the flex.

It might be worth gradually going round all your other sockets to check terminal tightness as well (switch off at the board first!). There's a bit of craft in getting the torque right - it should be firm, but not torqued down like the wheel nuts on a 44 ton truck! All that does is to strip the threads and/or cut through the copper cable.

Cheers and good luck, Mark.
Thanks Mark...
"Had the brown (Live) wire not been present you wouldn't have got much wasting done ?"
It must have been using the other Brown ?
Not sure where the second lose brown looped to but the as far as I know all the other sockets were working so it was probably still in the terminal until I pulled the faceplate away although it was obviously poorly gripped.
Gary
 
It's quite probably a ring final circuit (32A MCB?), so is intended to be fed power from both cables. On a well loaded circuit, this can cause damage to the fixed wiring, all the way back to the fusebox.
 
Thanks all for great prompt replies.
Only 1 year old good quality (?) BG socket with good quality (?) factory fitted washing machine plug. Permanently plugged in so socket has little use and located in a dry kitchen cupboard adjacent.
Seems to make sense that if it was a poor contact in the terminal there would be more heat damage in that location but as the damage seem to be around the socket and plugs prong, I am guessing it was a poor connection in there.
Got a very nervous homeowner who thinks her house is going to burn down and my ""probably a lose connection"" just isn't good enough.
Arranging for Spark who done the kitchen install to come back and give it the once over to reassure her.
Gary
 
That was my original thinking, lose or missing live overloading neutral?

No, this isn't how electricity works!

The location of the melting / burning clearly shows that this was due to bad contact between the plug pin and socket contact, and unlikely to have been due to loose terminals. Granted the line terminal was apparently loose because the cable pulled out, and a loose terminal can cause a burnout, but in this case it was unrelated.

All contacts rely on tiny (almost invisible) areas of metal actually making contact, so the current density is high and at least some heat is dissipated in the resistance. Less effective contact leads to more heat, which accelerates oxidation of the surface and weakens the spring temper of the socket contact gripping the pin. . This further reduces the contact area and it goes into runaway, leading to a burnout.

Good quality contacts are less likely to suffer from this effect and the socket is the main player rather than the plug. But progressive failure can still be triggered by some random adverse situation like a layer of deposit on the plug pin before installation, and some combinations of plug and socket metal alloys make better contact together than others.

Plugs that are regularly moved have the advantage that any oxide buildup is mechanically scraped off so that fresh bare metal surfaces are exposed. The same is true of the socket contact although heavy use eventually wears out the contact. Again, quality counts and the devil is in the detail, although price is a guide there is no cast-iron guarantee that the most expensive socket will last the longest in a particular application.
 
No, this isn't how electricity works!

The location of the melting / burning clearly shows that this was due to bad contact between the plug pin and socket contact, and unlikely to have been due to loose terminals. Granted the line terminal was apparently loose because the cable pulled out, and a loose terminal can cause a burnout, but in this case it was unrelated.

All contacts rely on tiny (almost invisible) areas of metal actually making contact, so the current density is high and at least some heat is dissipated in the resistance. Less effective contact leads to more heat, which accelerates oxidation of the surface and weakens the spring temper of the socket contact gripping the pin. . This further reduces the contact area and it goes into runaway, leading to a burnout.

Good quality contacts are less likely to suffer from this effect and the socket is the main player rather than the plug. But progressive failure can still be triggered by some random adverse situation like a layer of deposit on the plug pin before installation, and some combinations of plug and socket metal alloys make better contact together than others.

Plugs that are regularly moved have the advantage that any oxide buildup is mechanically scraped off so that fresh bare metal surfaces are exposed. The same is true of the socket contact although heavy use eventually wears out the contact. Again, quality counts and the devil is in the detail, although price is a guide there is no cast-iron guarantee that the most expensive socket will last the longest in a particular application.
Now that, is what I call an answer!
Thank you.
I guess my concern is that I stubbornly refuse to accept that a nearly new good quality plug and socket can fail so badly/dangerously! How many dangerous sockets are out there!?!
Maybe I should sent it to BG for their comment.
Thanks again
 
We can't assume it was 'dangerous' by design or manufacture, because we don't know the actual underlying trigger mechanism for the burnout. Once it starts escalating, any high-resistance fitting can turn into a lump of melted goo, and it has been happening since the first days of electricity. A century ago, when plugs were often made of wood, they would char rather than melt but the result was not very different to what happened to your washing machine plug.
 
I just had that.Tumble dryer stopped.plug and socket too hot to tougch.stank of that burning electrical plastic smell.turned off supply.got plug out.neutral pin had black residue.changed fused,cleaned pin and worked okay in another socket.socket took a very long time to cool down.sparky booked,though tempting to have a look.Q Why didnt the RCD trip?The heat generated indicated that the fault was taking place long enough for the disruption to have been detected.
 
i had similar.tumbler dryer stopped.socket and plug stank and too hot to touch.turned off elec.took out plug cleaned off black residue on neutral pin changed fuse worked okay in another socket.sparky booked though tempting to look inside socket.fake fuses were an issue on domestic appliances a while ago,but old fuse not burnt.As the fault must have been evident for a while to generate such extensive heat which didnt the RCD trip?
 

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