MY TV`s FREEVIEW CHANNELS HAVE WORSE PICTURE QUALITY AFTER SWITCHOVER !

[chris murphy]

"Hello All",

I have had Freeview on all of the TV`s in My Home since Freeview became available - all with a Great Picture.

I live in London as We have just had the `Switchover` on 4th and 18th April - Since then the TV Pictures have been NOT Great and have been adversely affected by the recent `Bad Weather` / Rain etc.

I am sure that I read often in the run up to the Switchover that the Signals would be `Better` and that Bad Weather would NOT affect the Signals ?

I have never seen the Weather affect the Picture / Signals before the Switchover.


I am near the Transmitter Tower for My Area and have had Great Pictures / Signals for over 25 Years - UNTIL NOW !

I cannot imagine that this means I would need to change My Aerials - Why would I have been receiving Great Pictures in the YEARS preceding the `Switchover` BUT Worse Pictures / Signals since then - when it had been stated that the Switchover would Improve the Signals ?


I have tried having the Aerial positions adjusted slightly - but they needed to be returned to the original positions to receive the now Inferior Signals / Pictures.

I cannot Try / use Signal Boosters as I have Sky wired to and connected to the Aerial Sockets of 2 of the TV`s - a Signal Booster interferes with the Signal from the 2nd Output from the Sky Digibox - I think via the small voltage supply to the Magic Eye for the Remote Controls [?] - causing NO Sky Signal - Remove Signal Booster = Sky Signal Works again.


I am hoping for comments from Members regarding the points about My Freeview Signals being Worse since the Switchover AND the Signals / Pictures being BADLY Affected by Bad Weather / Heavy Rain - as most Areas have had the Switchover quite a long time ago do any Members remember these Problems in their Area ?


Regards,


Chris

 

[chris murphy]

Oh, and gthe other thing that can cause problems in high signal areas is poor quality cable, either the aerial downlead/house wiring cable that isn't foil shielded (cheap stuff usually from electrical wholesalers), or the fly lead from the wall socket to the receiver. If it's one of those thin white ones then try changing it for a good quality foil screened one.

Either of these cable routes can pick up signals directly, that then interfere with the 'original' signal from the aerial.

(in all of this I assume the problem you are referring to is 'blocking'/'pixelating' of the picture on screen, rather than some other form of interference?)

"Hello Ian B",

Thanks for your messages.

Yesterday I had the perfect opportunity to try the Variable Attenuator again on the Aerial Cables to My TV`s - Because of the VERY Heavy Rainfall last night which is what causes the Unwatchable Signal / Reception from My Freeview Boxes / Built In Freeview on TV`s.

I also purchased a New Freeview Box to try and see if this was also affected by the Signal / Reception Problem - It Was.

I believe that the Variable Attenuator adjusts from 0 to 20 in the Signal Range [?] I was hoping that IF the problem was that the `New` Digital Signal was too Strong and was affecting the Signal Quality that I could turn down the Strength to achieve a better Quality Signal.

Whatever the Adjustment using the Attenuator - Nothing changed on the TV Reception / Picture Quality - I could not get a decent Picture at all - it is Pixelated / Blocking / Sound badly distorted - Totally Unwatchable.

Because I have previously looked at the Display of the Signal Strength & Signal Quality on the On Screen Display from the Freeview Boxes I did look to see if the adjustment with the Attenuator was altering those values - As far as I could see it was NOT - even when adjusted to the Lowest Signal Strength.

When the Signal Displays are showing during periods of No Reception Problems the Signal Strength is at Maximum but the Signal Quality is only just about 60% - when there is a Reception Problem during Heavy Rainfall the Signal Strength is still at Maximum and the Signal Quality falls to approximately 35 to 40% - this seems to cause the Signal to become absolutely Unwatchable.

This Reception problem seems to apply to just the ITV Channels - Channel 4 and Channel 5.

I will now purchase another Variable Attenuator and try what You suggested about connecting the Two Attenuators together - to see IF that will Lower the Signal Strength and hopefully then Improve the Signal Quality [?] - "Thanks" for suggesting this.

Regarding My Aerial Cables - these were installed by Me when I also Installed New Aerials and the Cable was `The BEST that is available` - I was told this at the Time by an Electrician Friend who advised Me what to purchase - The Cable was definitely `Double Screened` / Copper Screening of the Highest Specification generally available - I was very surprised at the Cost - especially as I need to get enough for 4 Aerials - from the Roof down to various TV positions.

I don`t have Aerial Socket Outlets installed but I do have some Fly Leads made up from the same Cable as I used from the Aerials [Double Screened] - If I ever needed to move the TV`s for any reason - the Aerial / Co-Axial Plugs are also Good Quality as I would never buy or use Cheap fittings on any Electrical / TV / Satellite Equipment [Or anything else in My Home].


What I am VERY aggravated about Ian is that this all Started at the time of the Digital Switchover - I had almost perfect Reception on Freeview to ALL of the TV`s in My Home for YEARS prior to Day TWO of the Digital Switchover [18 April ?]


Nothing changed about My TV Aerials or in My Home on that Day except for the Second Stage of the Digital Switchover !


Something that I find strange is that My Neighbours do NOT have these problems to anything like the extent that I am experiencing on My TV`s / Freeview Boxes - They do have some Pixelating of the Screen for a few seconds at a time and obviously also the Sound is affected - But seemingly not to the extent where it becomes Unwatchable.

My Neighbours have only `Standard` / Inexpensive Freeview Boxes and their Aerials and Aerial Cables are NOT of the `Best Quality` !

Perhaps now that the Digital Switchover has happened My Aerials and Aerial Cables are TOO GOOD !

When I purchase the additional Variable Attenuator I am going to get an Indoor Aerial - not an `Electrical` / Attenuated Aerial - just a Basic Indoor Aerial and Check out the Freeview Reception using that - Perhaps that will `Attenuate` the Freeview Signal enough to make the Signal Quality better - ?


Thanks again for your suggestions.


Regards,


Chris

 

[chris murphy]

"Hello",

Tonight during fairly Heavy Rainfall I connected TWO Variable Attenuators together [Ian B`s suggestion] and tried adjusting the Signal Strength from the various Aerials to My TV`s to TRY to get better Signal QUALITY / Reception for the Digital / Freeview Channels that are BADLY Affected during Heavy Rainfall.

I was able to actually See the Signal Strength being lowered on the Signal Indicators from the Freeview Box Displays but the Signal Quality was never increased nor was the Reception / TV Picture any better during these adjustments.

as I have often mentioned in My Posts about this Problem - These Signal / Reception Problems only started on Day Two of the Digital Switchover in My Area / London - for YEARS before this I had already sorted out My Freeview Reception and it was Excellent on ALL of My TV`s.


NOW I still have Unwatchable TV Channels on ALL TV`s except for My 2 `Main` TV`s where Sky is the `Supplier` of the Channels that We watch - these Channels are mainly ALL of the ITV Channels - Plus Channels 4 & 5 - I am still irritated about this as the TV`s in 2 Bedrooms and the Kitchen TV have Channels that cannot be watched during periods of Heavy Rain.

I cannot be `Unique` in having these problems - although as I mentioned My Neighbours do NOT have the Signal / Reception disruption to the extent that I have - If there were `London Wide` Signal Problems I would have expected to have at least Read about / heard about this.

I was not able to purchase an `Ordinary` Indoor Aerial on Sunday when I bought the Second Variable Attenuator as there was not one in stock - But although I probably will get one - JUST to `Rule Out` that option - I cannot imagine that it would produce a `Better` Signal QUALITY than My Top Quality Roof Aerials and Top Quality / Double Screened [Copper] Aerial Cables & Fittings.


Thanks to All Members who have tried to Help Me with this - I really appreciate all of your Time and Suggestions / Information.


Regards,


Chris

 

[Ian B]

Hi Chris.

It's difficult to diagnose much more without a site visit, and my only remaining thought is that your aerial is picking up a reflection or multi-path signal from the same or another transmitter from a wet roof (as it's evident in heavy rain), but this is fairly unlikely. The test with an indoor aerial might eliminate that.

I can only suggest you either get a professional aerial installer to come out and check the system, or contact Digitsal Uk Digital UK - Help although I suspect they will say the same.

Go for a CAI member company and try to choose an experienced one that is familiar with your particular area. Directory Search Page

Let us know how you get on though :icon14:

 

[chris murphy]

Hi Chris.

It's difficult to diagnose much more without a site visit, and my only remaining thought is that your aerial is picking up a reflection or multi-path signal from the same or another transmitter from a wet roof (as it's evident in heavy rain), but this is fairly unlikely. The test with an indoor aerial might eliminate that.

I can only suggest you either get a professional aerial installer to come out and check the system, or contact Digital Uk Digital UK - Help although I suspect they will say the same.

Go for a CAI member company and try to choose an experienced one that is familiar with your particular area. Directory Search Page

Let us know how you get on though :icon14:

"Hello Ian",

Thanks very much for trying to help Me with this - I really appreciate your Time and your suggestions.

What REALLY irritates Me is that I made a point of getting ready and Fully Set Up for Freeview / Digital TV Switchover YEARS before it occurred - I had almost perfect Reception on ALL of the TV`s for YEARS prior to April this Year.

I wonder what could cause My Excellent TV Reception - on Freeview / Digital to have these problems on Day 2 of the Digital Switchover ?

It would be good to get a Professional Aerial Installers `Technical Investigation`/ Opinion about this - The problem is that even SOME Companies / Individuals who are Registered with the Industry`s Voluntary `Governing Body` are NOT Trustworthy regarding reasonable Charges.

There has been quite a lot of Talk in areas of South London where I know People about a LOT of People being Ripped Off with Charges in the run up to the Digital Switchover for the Installation of Roof Aerials - some by So Called Professional Aerial Installers.

I don`t really want someone coming to MY Home and possibly NOT being able to `Diagnose` the Problem - which could ONLY be checked during Heavy Rainfall as it ONLY exists then - But then wanting to Charge Me an exorbitant `Fee` / Call Out Charge Plus........


I know that this seems as if I am `Putting Down` Professional Aerial Installers - I am NOT - From what I have Read in Newspapers and what I have seen on TV and heard from Friends there are obviously MANY Cowboy Installers who are `Registered Installers` - these People then give the Entire `Industry` and everyone working in it a Bad Name.

I remember the Watchdog / Rogue Traders program that `Exposed` some Registered Installers - they were simply taking the P... out of their Customers with their Work and Prices.

I will check around for recommendations for an Aerial Installer who has done work for someone that I know - and who perhaps is also `Registered Aerial Installer`.

Although I have mentioned often in My Posts how `Irritated` I am about this - that is because I tried to ENSURE that I was Set Up for Digital TV YEARS in advance of the Switchover.

The Unwatchable Channels problem does NOT affect My Everyday TV Viewing - in fact it does not affect ME at all - the Signal / Reception Problems are `On` Bedrooms TV`s and the Kitchen TV - ONLY during Heavy Rainfall.

That is why I would rather NOT have to get an Aerial Installer involved - unless I could obtain Technical Advice and was then able to Eliminate the problems at a `Reasonable Cost`.

To Pay an Expensive Invoice for an Intermittent [Heavy Rain Only] Problems to SOME Channels only on Bedroom 2 and Bedroom 3 TV`s and the Kitchen TV would in My opinion be Foolish.


Thanks again for your help Ian - IF I ever get this sorted out [?] I will Post the Result Here.


Regards,


Chris

 

[Ian B]

Chris,

I understand your frustration, and of course there are good and bad guys/firms in any industry.

You should be aware there is a difference between "Registered Digital Installers" (some, but by no means all, of whom were set up just to do DSO work), and CAI members.

Some firms are 'members' of both, and I'm not saying all of either group are good or bad, but the CAI offers a 'warranty' service to consumers who use one of it's members, so if there is a case of poor workmanship or inappropriate charges, then they can step in and assist the customer. The CAI Promise

I doubt anyone will give you a fixed price to resolve the problem without a site visit first, however, once they've been and identified the problem then they should be able to provide a price to fix it, assuming they don't do so on the first visit.

As a general rule, the guys that do 'systems' work (MATV, SMATV, IRS, etc) will have all the test gear and be experienced. Again I'm not saying residential installers won't have the same gear, as with all trades there are those who are more 'technical' than others.

Good luck!
Ian

 

[chris murphy]

"Hello again Ian",

Thanks for your reply - My over long explanation should really just have read that I don`t feel the Intermittent Problems [During Heavy Rainfall] on TV`s in usually `Spare` Bedrooms merits paying out for an Aerial Installer to try and rectify the Problems - for the Kitchen - just watch a Channel that is NOT Disrupted during Heavy Rain.


I was trying NOT to irritate You or any Aerial Installer / Company with My comments and I know that there are GOOD / Reputable Aerial Installers - But the Industry has received plenty of `Bad Press` recently due to the Cowboy`s that also carry out this work.

I know that EVERY Industry has the `Over Chargers` - I would NOT want to single out Aerial Installers.

I am a Heating Engineer and obviously for the Gas Installation part of My Trade I am Gas Safe Registered - BUT People could quite easily get a Gas Safe Registered Engineer / Installer who was Fully Qualified and Registered [A Legal Requirement] BUT they could still be a `Rip Off Merchant` !

Just as with any Trade / `Governing Body` there are Disreputable People / Companies and `Over Chargers`.

I would never have expected an Aerial Installer to give Me a Fixed Price without seeing the scenario regarding My Aerials / Cables etc. and the Signal / Reception Disruption - Just as I would not give a Price for Heating - Plumbing or Gas Work without visiting the Property.

Regarding an Industry Registration Body deciding on what would constitute `Over Charging` / Inappropriate Charges I have had experience of trying to Help a Family Member who was Over Charged by a Company - The Industry `Mediators` had ridiculous ideas about `Fair Pricing` / Charges.

Even the Legal Profession have ridiculous views about `Fair Charges` for Trades and Services - As their Charging Structure is based on HIGH Charges.

I would NEVER need an Industry Body to Complain to about any `Over Charging` as I simply would NOT Pay an Exorbitant Amount for ANY Service.

Thanks again Ian for all of your suggestions - IF I ever do get the problems resolved I will Post the result on here.


Regards,


Chris

 

[UNG]

I came across this site while looking for some info for a job and looked at the Crystal Palace info with this thread in mind hope it may be of some help

Crystal Palace Transmitter

 

[chris murphy]

View attachment 13308

I came across this site while looking for some info for a job and looked at the Crystal Palace info with this thread in mind hope it may be of some help

Crystal Palace Transmitter

"Hello UNG",

Thanks very much for the Information and Link to the webpage about the Crystal Palace Transmitter - this has some interesting / informative information.

If You were mainly referring to the section about Aerial Types [?] - I have the correct `Group A` Aerials - Specifically for Group A Transmitters - Crystal Palace being one of those - My Aerials are very similar in appearance to the Aerials in the Attached Picture.

Since My last Post about the Digital / Freeview Reception issues I have experienced the previously described problems on a couple of Days when there was NOT Heavy Rainfall !

As Members / Readers would have read from My Posts I had only been getting the problems during periods of Heavy Rain and I had thought that this was the ONLY time that the Reception problems occurred - getting the Unwatchable Channels situation during Days that had Good Weather surprised Me.


Thanks again for your interest - I really appreciate You trying to help.


Regards,


Chris

 

[Aok1]

You need an aerial company which has a spectrum analyser so your signal levels, carrier to noise, bit error rate etc can be checked.

Cheap signal level meters are not much use with digital transmissions.

1)Your issue could be water damage to the aerial
2) Poor signal levels
3) Excesive signal
4) Interference caused by impulse noise or tetra radio can cause problems
5) If you have sky looped in then the modulator inside the receiver may be faulty or set incorrect.
6)Coax damage or water in the coax
7) Multipath distorsion

The only way to solve this is to get an engineer out with the right test equipment.

I think you would pay about £55-£85 for callout in london.

check this lot out - You need an aerial company which has a spectrum analyser so your signal levels, carrier to noise, bit error rate etc can be checked.

Cheap signal level meters are not much use with digital transmissions.

1)Your issue could be water damage to the aerial
2) Poor signal levels
3) Excesive signal
4) Interference caused by impulse noise or tetra radio can cause problems
5) If you have sky looped in then the modulator inside the receiver may be faulty or set incorrect.
6)Coax damage or water in the coax
7) Multipath distorsion

The only way to solve this is to get an engineer out with the right test equipment.

I think you would pay about £55-£85 for callout in london.

Check this lot out - FixMyAerial.com i can say all these guys know what they are doing and have proper equipment.

 

[chris murphy]

You need an aerial company which has a spectrum analyser so your signal levels, carrier to noise, bit error rate etc can be checked.

Cheap signal level meters are not much use with digital transmissions.

1)Your issue could be water damage to the aerial
2) Poor signal levels
3) Excesive signal
4) Interference caused by impulse noise or tetra radio can cause problems
5) If you have sky looped in then the modulator inside the receiver may be faulty or set incorrect.
6)Coax damage or water in the coax
7) Multipath distorsion

The only way to solve this is to get an engineer out with the right test equipment.

I think you would pay about £55-£85 for callout in london.

check this lot out - You need an aerial company which has a spectrum analyser so your signal levels, carrier to noise, bit error rate etc can be checked.

Cheap signal level meters are not much use with digital transmissions.

1)Your issue could be water damage to the aerial
2) Poor signal levels
3) Excesive signal
4) Interference caused by impulse noise or tetra radio can cause problems
5) If you have sky looped in then the modulator inside the receiver may be faulty or set incorrect.
6)Coax damage or water in the coax
7) Multipath distorsion

The only way to solve this is to get an engineer out with the right test equipment.

I think you would pay about £55-£85 for callout in london.

Check this lot out - FixMyAerial.com i can say all these guys know what they are doing and have proper equipment.

"Hello Aok1",

Thank You very much for your suggestions and advice - I am sure that everything that You stated could affect the Digital / Freeview Reception on My Home`s TV`s.

BUT - What could cause ALL of them - 5 TV`s / TV & Freeview Boxes to have Great Reception for YEARS until `Day 2` of the Digital TV Switchover - and from that point onwards have problems that make watching some Freeview Channels Impossible ?


With regard to perhaps receiving a Signal that is `Too Strong` - I have tried the Attenuator / Double Attenuator adjustment process - No noticeable improvement at all.

As I have written some VERY Long Posts I presume that You have not seen that I have 3 separate Aerials.

So even if it could have been Water Penetration into the Cable Connection or Cable on One of them on the Exact Day [Day 2] of the Digital Switchover - this would not account for the same Reception problems on ALL TV`s - connected to the other 2 Aerials.

The 3 Aerials and their Cables were inspected visually just after these problems occurred for any sign Movement or Damage to the Insulation - all were in very good condition as they were fitted clipped to the Party Wall and Brickwork of the House - not left blowing about in the Wind as I often see.

I have had the Sky Boxes connected to the Bedroom TV`s for Years with no problems.

What has baffled Me is the problems started exactly `ON` the Digital TV Switchover - Day 2 [London].

I have had the Freeview / Digital Receivers working perfectly for YEARS before that Day.

I even purchased a `Digital Switchover Approved` Freeview Box to try that on All of the TV`s / Aerials - I wanted to rule out the possibility that the `Older` Freeview Boxes could not handle the New / Increased Power Signal [I had read about that possibility] - the same problem exists with the New Freeview Box.

I will keep your suggestion details - about getting an Aerial Installer who has a ` spectrum analyser` to come and check My TV Aerials Signals - BUT - the problems ONLY [usually] display during periods of Heavy Rainfall - I would have to be able to arrange for a Visit during Heavy Rain - this would NOT be easy to definitely predict.

Thank You very much for your interest and for your suggestions and advice - I really appreciate it.

Regards,

Chris