Old Stranded Steel conductors in house wiring.

[Breaker]

Hi.

I visited a clients bungalow today as I am looking for some work to get registered by elecsa.

The client wanted some new sockets fitted and after a quick check I noticed that he has no RCD protection for his ring main or his lighting. I then examined the wiring to find that it is the old steel wiring. I was wondering whether it would be worth conducting a test first or is the property well overdue for a rewire.

Thanks.

 

[monkeyelectric]

No just rewire it don't worry about doing any tests!

 

[ian.settle1]

Think you will find it is tinned copper not steel

 

[telectrix]

as above. try a magnet. if it's tinned coppedr stranded, then it's better cable than the crap we use now. just watch out that it's not aluminium, though.

 

[shocking_eg]

no need to rewire if its all in good condition.

 

[Breaker]

Thanks monkeyelectric.

If the client declines the rewire but still wants the extra sockets, should I refuse to put in any extra sockets unless he has the rewire. The whole lot looks pretty knackered really. He needs a new ccu as well.

 

[Breaker]

Ah tinned copper, thanks guys. I will give it a magnet test.

 

[monkeyelectric]

no need to rewire if its all in good condition.

I could not agree more! Why do people see old cable and without doing any tests write the cable off and suggest a rewire! It may still be serviceable or it may not but a range of tests will confirm instead of ripping people off for no reason

 

[shocking_eg]

Thanks monkeyelectric.

If the client declines the rewire but still wants the extra sockets, should I refuse to put in any extra sockets unless he has the rewire. The whole lot looks pretty knackered really. He needs a new ccu as well.

WTF ???

cant have more sockets without a rewire ??? lmao


just update the circuit that supply the sockets, first test the current circuit to check its servicable then install RCD protection etc..., minor works cert, jobs a gooden

will also want bonding done if not already

just because its old, doesnt make it knackered

 

[monkeyelectric]

Thanks monkeyelectric.

If the client declines the rewire but still wants the extra sockets, should I refuse to put in any extra sockets unless he has the rewire. The whole lot looks pretty knackered really. He needs a new ccu as well.

I was being sarcastic! You need to do tests not just assume its shot and needs rewiring!

 

[shocking_eg]

I could not agree more! Why do people see old cable and without doing any tests write the cable off and suggest a rewire! It may still be serviceable or it may not but a range of tests will confirm instead of ripping people off for no reason

+1, this is sadly very much the norm out there. feel sorry for the customer

 

[telectrix]

just because its old, doesnt make it knackered

told you to stop talking about me . LOL.

 

[shocking_eg]

just because its old, doesnt make it knackered

told you to stop talking about me . LOL.

haha !!!!!

 

[monkeyelectric]

+1, this is sadly very much the norm out there. feel sorry for the customer

I know its like taking your car to the garage for new tyres and the mechanic condeming it and saying it needs a new engine, gearbox, brakes and bodyshell before he can change the tyres, there's a lot of people being ripped off for no reason these days, perhaps i should lose my conscience and join in! This time next year i'll be a millionaire rodders

 

[Breaker]

I agree, thats why I was asking. The last thing I want to do is rip anyone off. :yes:

 

[shocking_eg]

I agree, thats why I was asking. The last thing I want to do is rip anyone off. :yes:

so when did you qualify as a sparks if you dont mind me asking ?

 

[stuartcourt]

Fair play to you breaker, I think you have your answer, the hard way as always here. Do your tests if its good then weave your magic if not then tell them the good/bad news.

 

[monkeyelectric]

I agree, thats why I was asking. The last thing I want to do is rip anyone off. :yes:

But if you're qualified and going to register with Elecsa then you should know that you need to test an installation and not just replace it if it looks old, i think you ideally need a little more experience in existing installations alongside an experienced spark before registering and going on your own

 

[Breaker]

I did my 17th edition last August and the EAL a couple of months back. I am still studying the advanced inspection and testing and Photovoltaics. I am just taking it a step at a time.

 

[Knobhead]

Steel wire?

This has got to me a wind up. No one can be that stupid!

PS, what's the safe working load of this steel wire?

 

[stuartcourt]

I think we have a newbe who is a bit green but wants to do a good job and whats right for his customers, maybe we could try to help just this once.

- - - Updated - - -

But I would get that regs book out my boy

 

[shocking_eg]

Electrical Trainee ? me thinks

 

[Breaker]

Thanks Stuartcourt.

I am taking everything one step at a time. If anything is beyond me I aint touching it. I may be new as an electrician but I want to do it right. I didn't serve an apprenticeship because I wasn't lucky enough back in those days. No ones going to give me an apprenticeship at 47 so I had no other choices open to me.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Steel wire?

This has got to me a wind up. No one can be that stupid!

PS, what's the safe working load of this steel wire?

we could try a load test...
if it will support rick waller....then its a pass....

 

[stuartcourt]

no prob you are in for some stick hope you have thick skin, we do have so many people flooding our trade who dont give a ****, you came across to me a genuine so good luck and stay on forum you will learn alot (the hard way me thinks)

 

[GLENNSPARK]

by the way....whats the earthing arrangements here?

 

[stuartcourt]

we could try a load test...
if it will support rick waller....then its a pass....

no like so a ha ha

 

[Breaker]

no prob you are in for some stick hope you have thick skin, we do have so many people flooding our trade who dont give a ****, you came across to me a genuine so good luck and stay on forum you will learn alot (the hard way me thinks)

Yeah I can take the hard way, I will stick around and annoy everyone it's worth it in the end......Lol.

 

[Breaker]

by the way....whats the earthing arrangements here?

The earthing is TN-S.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

test the install to BS7671....
you wont/cant really say owt else until you have...
a good start would be a quick Ze, and an IR (l-E & N-E)....if permission is granted by the customer....
IR test between the neutrals as well....
if its a board change then better to know now....rather than any nasty surprises later on

 

[Breaker]

test the install to BS7671....
you wont/cant really say owt else until you have...
a good start would be a quick Ze, and an IR (l-E & N-E)....if permission is granted by the customer....
IR test between the neutrals as well....
if its a board change then better to know now....rather than any nasty surprises later on

Cheers, will do. :yes:

 

[power ranger]

Breaker,

as you will need to do notifiable work for your ELECSA assessment, then I think the only way forward is for you to install a new circuit for the additional sockets.

Then there is no need to worry about having two different types of wiring on one circuit or having to check the existing ring final before making additions.

Just make sure earthing/ bonding is up to scratch and you add the required RCD protection which might be seperate RCD to the consumer unit.


What type of consumer unit is it and do you have any spare ways on it?

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Cheers, will do. :yes:

do IR as a (global test)...if low then seperate and do individually....just as a pre job check of course..

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Breaker,

as you will need to do notifiable work for your ELECSA assessment, then I think the only way forward is for you to install a new circuit for the additional sockets.

Then there is no need to worry about having two different types of wiring on one circuit or having to check the existing ring final before making additions.

Just make sure earthing/ bonding is up to scratch and you add the required RCD protection which might be seperate RCD to the consumer unit.


What type of consumer unit is it and do you have any spare ways on it?

rubbish...
you need to confirm that any existing circuit/s that you intend to add to/extend/modify are up to it...
this would go for any circuit

 

[power ranger]

Glennspark what I am saying is that for his assessment then adding spurs to the ring final is not enough work for his assessor to see.

Therefore, by installing a new circuit he will satisfy his assessment requirements and he will not need to check the existing RFC as he wont be touching it.

However, if he is to modify any existing circuit, then yes preliminary checks should be made prior to any work undertaken.

 

[power ranger]

Taken from the ELECSA website for types of work for assessment:
- A fully completed rewire

- The addition of a new circuit (i.e. a shower)

- The addition of a number of circuits (i.e. ground floor/first

floor extension)

- A supply to an external garage or outbuilding with further

subcircuits within that building.

Also dont forget that now the new changes to Part P have come in to effect in England that additions to circuits in a kitchen are no longer notifiable, so Breaker will have to make sure he has notifiable work for his assessment.

 

[Breaker]

The client has an old distribution board with two 30a fuses and thats it. Ring main and lights are on there own 30A fuse. Everything else has its own board. The only RCD he has is for the shower. He needs a new CCU to tidy this lot up I think. Would a newly fitted CCU with the existing wiring and the extra sockets be enough for the elecsa assessment?

If I can use this job to get me through the assessment then great but I don't want to do any unnecessary work that will rip the guy off. But I genuinely think he needs a new CCU. He needs RCD's on those circuits.

 

[stuartcourt]

dont fall into the trap of thinking everything needs an RCD as long as its safe then its safe (RCDs are not the answer to all our prayers)

 

[power ranger]

The client has an old distribution board with two 30a fuses and thats it. Ring main and lights are on there own 30A fuse. Everything else has its own board. The only RCD he has is for the shower. He needs a new CCU to tidy this lot up I think. Would a newly fitted CCU with the existing wiring and the extra sockets be enough for the elecsa assessment?

If I can use this job to get me through the assessment then great but I don't want to do any unnecessary work that will rip the guy off. But I genuinely think he needs a new CCU. He needs RCD's on those circuits.

Yes this should be fine for assessment, but if your in any doubt then call ELECSA for confirmation.

Dont know about the rest of the guys on here but I always think CCU cooker control unit, CU Consumer Unit

 

[Steven B]

Think you will find it is tinned copper not steel

No, he found steel wirring! I have seen strnded steel wiring also. A dummy wouldn't scrape or trim the ends to check. I don't spell my name: Charlie McCarthy

 

[westward10]

No, he found steel wirring! I have seen strnded steel wiring also. A dummy wouldn't scrape or trim the ends to check. I don't spell my name: Charlie McCarthy

Welcome to the forum but this thread is nearly ten years old. Did they find steel wiring, almost certainly tinned copper.

 

[brianmoooore]

just because its old, doesnt make it knackered

Just showed this line to the missus, who finally catches up with the ever increasing pension age next week.