QS

[Pete999]

I was listening to a debate regarding Part P and a point came up regarding Quality Supervisors, one chap mentioned that many of the larger Contracting firms, say 30 operatives would operate with only 1 QS.
Now I'm no expert but I have a good Friend who was a QS (he is a member of the Forum) not sure how many Electricians the firm he worked for had, but it was far to many for him to handle on his own.
He had this responsibility and was expected to do installs as well, the firm he worked for paid lip service to him, basically, the way I read the situation was "we need to have a QS to enable us to be a member of the particular scheme they were affiliated with" never really took much notice of his findings, often falsifying EICs etc, not much this particular Guy could do about it, he was just about keeping his head above water as it was, which was a pity because as well as being a nice guy he is a good Electrician as well.
I answered a post yesterday about the responsibilities of these schemes and how they would respond to complaints not only Customer complaints, but complaints from QS staff, the consensus was that the scheme would either suspend or cancel the membership, now I don't know about you guys but I find that strange, but of course it's all a monetary concern, the schemes don't seem to care, just cancel membership of bad contractors and move on to the next one,
The only recourse any customer complaint about shoddy workmanship after they have been given the finger by the particular scheme in question would be Trading standards, a sad state of affairs imo, bring on 1 governing body for Electricians, rant over
What are your opinions?

 

[telectrix]

totally agree.

 

[Octopus]

1 QS can't "police" 30 sparks.......

just saying

 

[Pete999]

1 QS can't "police" 30 sparks.......

just saying

Thanks

 

[ChrisElectrical88]

I was a QS for around 3 years. Had 15 lads to look after and struggled with verifiing all the certificates and keeping up to date with it all as well as pricing and running jobs. Director was very unfair as well, told me I had a week to verify a 180 page certificate and type it up for a school. Best thing I ever did walking away from that place.

As well as all that the lads were not great and didn't fill in half the stuff right, this would lead to me been moaned at by my boss for re sending the certificates back out for the correct info instead of making it to.

 

[Pete999]

I was a QS for around 3 years. Had 15 lads to look after and struggled with verifiing all the certificates and keeping up to date with it all as well as pricing and running jobs. Director was very unfair as well, told me I had a week to verify a 180 page certificate and type it up for a school. Best thing I ever did walking away from that place.

As well as all that the lads were not great and didn't fill in half the stuff right, this would lead to me been moaned at by my boss for re sending the certificates back out for the correct info instead of making it to.

Seems my mates experience was not an isolated case

 

[ChrisElectrical88]

Put me off been a QS and working in a office for a good while mate. Really enjoying been on the tools again.

 

[westward10]

I am a QS and like Chris I chase around 15 lads and the task is all but impossible if you are too on the tools. The only way to correctly manage it is to spend all your time watching them and that isn't going to happen.

 

[Pete999]

I am a QS and like Chris I chase around 15 lads and the task is all but impossible if you are too on the tools. The only way to correctly manage it is to spend all your time watching them and that isn't going to happen.

I know how you must feel Westy, but it should be the full time job, no way can you be on the tools and do QS duties.

 

[ChrisElectrical88]

It's just seen as someone to counter sign a certificate to many I think, that's the problem. I voiced my concerns I wasn't doing to Job to the best of my ability as I was given no where near the time to visit enough jobs to check the standard of work.

 

[Pete999]

It's just seen as someone to counter sign a certificate to many I think, that's the problem. I voiced my concerns I wasn't doing to Job to the best of my ability as I was given no where near the time to visit enough jobs to check the standard of work.

Bosses see belonging to a scheme, any scheme, as a means of getting more work in most cases

 

[westward10]

I know how you must feel Westy, but it should be the full time job, no way can you be on the tools and do QS duties.

Think most people are in the same boat. My boss says he runs a business and I need to be earning what can you do.

 

[Wilko]

I agree, it's mission difficult to be responsible for other people's work. In another imaginary industry, the operative is graded to perform the work, or not. If they are graded, they perform each and every task to standard or have their grading removed and cannot work unsupervised. This is examined by random and scheduled inspections and of course by complaint and incident. The QS then becomes more of a coach and mentor to help the folks to be compliant and recommend training needs etc ...

 

[sparkdog]

I find it difficult being a QS for just 1, myself.

 

[ChrisElectrical88]

I do like the grading idea even if we sort of have something with the JIB, a way of doing it is every individual must sign up to the NIC or similar for the cost of say £100 for 3 years. You then get a card with the type of work you can carried out in supervised.I don't know, there has to be a easier way of doing it.

 

[Des 56]

The simple way of regulating electrical work is to badge the individual
Schemes regulate their members and at the same time compete for customers to enroll with them,it is a conflict that should never be permitted

Registration should be for an individual via a national non profit making organisation with close links to verified training providers, who they licence to provide the training the industry requires

 

[Pete999]

I do like the grading idea even if we sort of have something with the JIB, a way of doing it is every individual must sign up to the NIC or similar for the cost of say £100 for 3 years. You then get a card with the type of work you can carried out in supervised.I don't know, there has to be a easier way of doing it.

I didn't realise until I watched that debate on Part P that the schemes re certify, if that's the correct word the electrical industry every year, whereas heating/gas industries are done every 5 years, now tell me if I'm wrong, is that not a huge cash builder for the schemes?

 

[Pete999]

The simple way of regulating electrical work is to badge the individual
Schemes regulate their members and at the same time compete for customers to enroll with them,it is a conflict that should never be permitted

Registration should be for an individual via a national non profit making organisation with close links to verified training providers, who they licence to provide the training the industry requires

I didn't realise until I watched that debate on Part P that the schemes re certify, if that's the correct word the electrical industry every year, whereas heating/gas industries are done every 5 years, now tell me if I'm wrong, is that not a huge cash builder for the schemes?

Well said Des

 

[Toneyz]

It does not help if your boss is forging your signature and others on certs when you have not signed then off due to non compliance issues telling electricians not let you know work/jobs exist ''no we are only core drilling for fans at present'' next day 20 certs arrive on your desk to be signed off I walked and the company lost its NICEIC A.C is now with NAPIT how does that work ?

 

[Pete999]

It does not help if your boss is forging your signature and others on certs when you have not signed then off due to non compliance issues telling electricians not let you know work/jobs exist ''no we are only core drilling for fans at present'' next day 20 certs arrive on your desk to be signed off I walked and the company lost its NICEIC A.C is now with NAPIT how does that work ?

Money talks Ant

 

[Toneyz]

and the b####---- made me walk

 

[Rpa07]

It makes a mockery of good standards and safety for people and livestock as the BS7671 dictates. I agree that something needs to be done on the large scale.
I have had this rant over the time I've been training.
It doesn't take a genius to know that 1 QS can't oversee a whole army of sparks of different experience and make them March to to beat of one drum. I think there should be limits to the number of QS to non registered sparks and mates such as 1 to 4 or 1 to 6 easy enough to police by paperwork and registration number - perhaps some will be paid what they are worth then.

 

[Leesparkykent]

I believe if your a member of the ECA you have to have different QS for roughly every 10 sparks.

 

[Midwest]

In your other post Pete, 'Who was that Man?', there's a question asked about quantity of QS's to staff, by the select committee. It was a good question, that the witnesses to the committee squirmed over somewhat (second half of the video).

It would appear, as far as the schemes are concerned there's no maximum, just assessed by the assessor. That was in 2014, not sure if its changed since.

 

[Phil Thompson]

Sounds like a nightmare, even without own install workload to be done as well.

 

[Ian1981]

Do all the schemes require a qs then?
I've only ever heard the term as an NICEIC requirement?

 

[Toneyz]

This all goes back to Pete999 other post Who was that man? and the video of house of Commons committee to administrate the part P as the LCBC would not be able to cope, the competent schemes are there for this and in part the administrative works well The problem is the individual doing the work an opportunity was missed years ago with the CSCS card to have something like Gas Safe if you go on their website I think it has photo of them as on card and what they are qualified to do .Note that part P does not cover everything electrical

 

[ipf]

I was listening to a debate regarding Part P and a point came up regarding Quality Supervisors, one chap mentioned that many of the larger Contracting firms, say 30 operatives would operate with only 1 QS.


May be quality but are they qualified ?

Tesco have them walking up and down the aisles.

 

[Toneyz]

that would be ok if refurbishing a large office block etc. not if there was 30 sparks doing work over a geographical area

 

[The Ghost]

Well if some of you think its hard to run 15-30 how about supervising 26000 which NIC do. I can only imagine how difficult that must be.

 

[Rpa07]

I weep for them! 26000 x £500 = *****

Well if some of you think its hard to run 15-30 how about supervising 26000 which NIC do. I can only imagine how difficult that must be.

 

[Toneyz]

I weep for them! 26000 x £500 = *****

I'm just re applying for my ecs card guess where the address is

 

[Rpa07]

Not NIC address surely? They'll be making pasties next!

 

[Toneyz]

Not NIC address surely? They'll be making pasties next!

ECS Admin Services Warwick House..........

 

[Rpa07]

It took 10 months to get my ECS card - I don't want to talk about it!
All the best with that Ant!

 

[Toneyz]

It took 10 months to get my ECS card - I don't want to talk about it!
All the best with that Ant!

I did well on Friday got through to JIB & ECS within 5 minuets shocked

 

[Toneyz]

It took 10 months to get my ECS card - I don't want to talk about it!
All the best with that Ant!

how did you get on site then ?

 

[Rpa07]

Didn't need to until I got it then changed my situation and started doing different work.

how did you get on site then ?