Some (probably) stupid questions about my house rewire

[MrsFletcher]

Hi everyone (wave)

Sorry if this is in the wrong section :crazy:

I am currently having my house "done up" and the electrician has just told me he has finished the wiring and is requesting payment.

Most of it looks OK (not that I would really know any different lol) but one of the girls I work with told me that the kitchen should now be on a separate circuit main switch in the electrical fuse box, she says there should be 1 fuse for the cooker and another for the plugs but the lights can stay on the same switch as the other downstairs lights. Just so you understand, she had her house required a few weeks ago and that's what they did at her house.

Anyway, my electrician hasn’t done any of that, the cooker and the plugs are just on the downstairs plugs fuse?

Also I have just noticed that he has ran wires up next to the water mains pipe they are not in a plastic runner thing nor are they nail clamped (?) to the wall. They are covered by a wooden panel though so you cant see it unless you take that off.

So I guess my question is, are these things right or wrong?

Oops, sorry just one more, what sort of certification should I expect to get? He tells me that it will just arrive in the post?

Thank you for your help :heart:

Tracy

 

[Deleted member 26818]

What sort of cooker do you have?
Is it gas or electric?
Does it have a 3 pin plug, or is it wired direct?

 

[trev]

Firstly the only stupid question is the one you don't ask.
Ordinarily the upstairs sockets would be on one Circuit breaker downstairs sockets on another and the kitchen would be on another. Similarly with your lighting, one for upstairs one for down. The cooker, depending on it's wattage (and whether it is plugged in solely for an ignitor if it's gas) can either go on it's own circuit or on the kitchen ring main.
The wires running to your water supply are bonding conductors, I'll not bore you with why they are there unless youwant me to, suffice to say they are a safety measure and in my opinion, for neatness should be hidden. There are regulations that state they should be in some form of containment for protection but that depends on where they are and how they run to the water incomer. You will, or should, have a similar one close to your gas meter.
Now for the certification.
If your electrician was a member of a self certification scheme he will notify his scheme provider of the work he has carried out. They in turn will notify your local building control department who will issue a completion certificate which will come in the post. If he is not a scheme member you should have had a visit from a building control officer while the work was being carried out.
There's obviously a lot more involved in the rewire process but I've tried to keep it simple since you're a non electrician, if you need any more information post away on here and someone will come to your aid.

 

[Sparky Ninja]

I would suggest you look at the scope of your contract (if there is one) with regards to the payment. Don't hand over any money (especially if you have questions) if the job isn't completed, unless it was previously agreed. I wouldn't expect to receive final payment until I have handed the client their certification and talked them through the installation and paperwork.

 

[Jabbajaws]

"In the post"? Is he a registered electrician? I personally would not provide payment until l had recieved the certification. He is obliged to give you the certificates regardless of whether you pay him or not, though l shouldnt really be telling you that.

The certificates prove that he has tested the circuits, and that he is certifying the safety of your installation. If you pay him first you may never see him again.

All im saying is be careful, as there are alot of cowboys and rogue traders out there.

 

[JUD]

....one of the girls I work with told me that the kitchen should now be on a separate circuit main switch in the electrical fuse box, she says there should be 1 fuse for the cooker and another for the plugs but the lights can stay on the same switch as the other downstairs lights.

There is nothing in the regulations that states that a kitchen should have it's own ring/radial circuit. However, it is good practice to do so as kitchen appliances such as washers/driers can tend to put heavier loads on one part of the ring.

As for the cooker, it would depend on it's kW rating. For anything over 2kW it's advisable to put it on a dedicated circuit.

Also I have just noticed that he has ran wires up next to the water mains pipe they are not in a plastic runner thing nor are they nail clamped (?) to the wall. They are covered by a wooden panel though so you cant see it unless you take that off.

As trev1 said, these are bonding conductors. They only really need clipping etc. if they are accessible and from what you have said they appear to be hidden so they should be fine.

 

[keniff]

In the post. This is what I do, I write Down the test results rough on site then type them up on certification software when I get home, then send them in the post, this is then followed by the gumph elecsa or whoever your registered to will send out

 

[ezzzekiel]

Maybe your friends house is all wrong and yours is fine 

 

[Richard Burns]

As the above posts, nothing seems terrible there, depending on the rating of your cooker. The fact that the cables beside the water pipe are in a wooden cover sounds OK.

You should receive from the electrician directly, an Electrical Installation Certificate along with the associated Schedule of Inspections and Schedule of Test Results. If he is a member of a Part P self certification scheme then you would later receive a Building Regulations compliance certificate from his scheme provider. If building Control were involved in the installation then Building Control will issue the Building Regulations compliance certificate.

 

[MrsFletcher]

Where is my last post?

It had pics and everything

This is the wiring next to the pipes

and this is behind a light switch cover we removed:

We are a bit concerned these switches are for the 2 outside security lights and the hall landing and stairs, the security lights only work if we turn the hall way light on...?

We paid for a full house rewire and having now checked all the light switches and ceiling roses they still all have the old wiring in

The plugs downstairs have a mis match of both old and new, the electrician says they didnt need replacing so he left them in, he tells me it dosent matter that I paid for a full rewire as the job was harder than he first thought so he would have asked for more money anyway...

Any comments? PLEASE

 

[polo1]

It's really all down to the contract you have with the spark (you do have a contract don't you????). Did you accept a quotation or an estimate? Unless you have agreed to the retention of accessories, then they should have all been replaced with an agreed make. Similarly the cabling - it's in the name "rewire".

Sorry to see that the relationship is/has deteriorated. If a job turned out to be harder than anticipated, that's not down to you (unless say, you had agreed to move furniture, lift carpets etc and then didn't). There are always two sides to every story, but from what you have said, demand what was agreed and don't part with a penny until that's done and you have all the paperwork mentioned elsewhere (although I feel a stalemate coming on!).

Regards.

 

[midgetman]

well if you asked for a full house rewire - you've got old color wire still there - si it cant be a full rewire

 

[Engineer54]

As has been stated, unless you agreed for the continued use of any existing wiring, then he hasn't upheld his obligations to being contracted to conduct a ''Re-Wire'' of your premises. The very fact that your outside lights are only operational if another circuit is energised is another worrying matter. The use of existing accessories on such a job is another thing i've never heard of, i can understand to some extent if they were only recently installed prior to his re-wire, but that's probably not the case is it?? lol!! In any case, that would have been a cost saving to You, ...not the electrician!!

Sounds like you need to put your foot down here, and if the worst come to the worst, employ another electrician to undertake a survey, to be paid by any outstanding monies owed to the installation electrician....

There will only be a stalemate here, if you allow one to happen. What you need to do is drive forward to a suitable and just conclusion for both sides!!!

 

[telectrix]

as above. posts. all depends on what was quoted for/agreed. in any case, i would withhold final payment until such time as you receive the appropriate certification and evidence of the sparks being registered under part p with your local authority building control. if he is not, they can make you remove plaster, lift boards, etc. and pay for inspection/testing.

 

[trev]

When I replied to your first post I mentioned earth bonding. Picture 1 is what this is, while it's not exactly neat it appears to be ok. There should be a similar cable near your gas meter.
In picture 2 what he appears to have done is jointed neutrals in the swich box. it's not something I would do but there was a thread on here on the same subject a few days ago and the general concensus was that it is acceptable. Your security lights working only when the hall light is on is because he has fed them from the wrong side of the switch. It's something that is easily rectifiable but also it should have been picked up when he was doing functional testing. Personally I don't like feeding lights that way but it's only my opinion and you know what they say.. opinions are like bottoms, everyone has one.
If you have paid for a full rewire then that is precisely what you should have got but there may be a clause in the contract which allows him to leave old cables in as long as they test out ok. You would have to check your contract for that, but if I say a property needs a rewire I don't go round testing cables individually to see if I can leave them in. It all comes out and new goes in.
Has he put a mixed colour wiring sticker on your consumer unit? It should be easy to spot as they are supposed to be in a prominent position.
If, when all your questions have been answered here you still feel aggrieved then you can go to his competent persons scheme operator and complain to them. His paperwork should identify which scheme he is with NICEIC, NAPIT or ELECSA are the usual ones.
In the mean time please feel free to post up any questions you have, we're a friendly bunch who all want to see the job done right.

 

[gooner1984]

hello mrsfletcher,

if you have ask for a rewire then thats what it is REWIRE, remove all the old cables and put new ones in, by the looks of it. he cut a lot of corners, and if i was you i wouldn't part with any money. those color cables are not in use anymore today we use brown blue, yellow/green its the regs. to me sounds like a cowboy job not good at all.

 

[midgetman]

if you ordered a full rewire then that is what you should get. The "electrician" should if encountered extra costs which is sometimes quite possible have advised you - not just leave the old wires in.

As far as having kitchen not on dedicated ring - that's fine. The cooker though would normally be on its own radial.

 

[Knobhead]

My first reaction is to say get trading standards involved.
You may come unstuck with the contract. But the standard of work is abysmal.

 

[trev]

You can tell me to mind my own business here MrsFletcher but how much did this "Gentleman" charge you?

 

[telectrix]

well, looking at the pics. apart from advising you not to take up photography as a career, as tony, says, the standard of work is not what i would expect from a qualified sparks. those T/E cables dangling down the water pipes are no way compliant with regs. the cables behind the switches look like roland rat has installed them for a nest.