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Discuss Thank you scheme providers. You are destroying a once respected trade. in the UK Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

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baldsparkies

Since the introduction of part P I have observed with complete dismay an influx of under qualified, so called electricians.
The country, like others, is struggling through a recession.
Many of the bigger electrical contractors are going under.
Many other types of trade are also suffering.
The result is a huge group of under qualified x employees, with a redundancy wedge in there back pockets.
They come from many backgrounds, and the rich and easy pickings of a once respected trade, draws them like moths to a flame.
All they need is to buy a cheap van and set themselves up as one man bands.
A quick wonder course, and a very basic assesment by a scheme provider gives them a nice label to stick on that van.
The general public have no idea about the individuals experience, qualifications, or level of competants.
A defined scope person can take full advantage of people, there homes, even commercial work, with no more than there membership into the scheme, and a little BS.
And the current system with its money generating schemes just makes the situation worse.
In all of 40 years in the trade. I have NEVER seen so many electricians vans on the roads of Britain.
The only sanity amongst this is the JIB scheme. Offering recognition and identification of your level of experience and qualifications.
But how many people will know about, or ask to see such a card ??
Our industry is a mess.
Part P and the scheme providers have I.M.H.O. done little to clean up our industry.
In fact the cash cow they have created has actually left the whole sorry situation in a real mess.
As I aproach retirement. I feel so very sad, that the name Qualified Electrican stands for very little these days.
Because those who are qualified, are being plowed under by non competant people.
Who have been allowed to jump on the band wagon, for nothing more than make a quick buck.
Sad !! Very very sad.:sad_smile:
 
summed up nicely. and that's without including all the foreign chancers working for a pittance and bodging everything as they go back home with a huge wedge of GBP.
 
Surprised it has taken you this long to realise that the Schemes are self serving and always will be. Also does not help when you read guys on here saying I have my C&Gs ??? ??? ??? ??? a van my own power tools and my own test equipment and I am willing to work for free or for £7 because this is my destiny is it any wonder employers take the P!ss .

Only thing I have ever supplied on a job is my tools test gear,van,power tools are supplied by the employer.


O and by the way we are screwed
 
its been ages since we had a part p rant lol.

nevermind , the conseratives saw the schemes were constricting free enterprise and choice for the public and thus brought in the recent 3rd party testing & a reduction in notifiable jobs.

its not all the schemes fault though , the industry as a whole has to take some blame for the sorry state of affairs ,
for example the current trend for using agencies for all construction recruitment lies firmly at the door of contractors , nowt to do with the nic et all.

no matter , the books will balance in the end , leaving the good sparks to continue like they did before part p , while the chancers fall by the wayside.
;-)
 
Part P is NOT the issue. Its the fact that every other trade is doing electrics. My "old" neighbour, who come over from Spain said he simply couldn't understand why the trades all did "each others" work (and mostly badly)
 
Part P isn't the issue. The industry is in trouble obviously but most of the new sparks are only self employed because there isn't enough employed positions. Just think more mistakes are evident because they don't have a company to hide behind. Seen some howlers from time served sparks NIC as well ! Yes there are electrical trainee but are you really threatened by them ?
 
Part P isn't the issue. The industry is in trouble obviously but most of the new sparks are only self employed because there isn't enough employed positions. Just think more mistakes are evident because they don't have a company to hide behind. Seen some howlers from time served sparks NIC as well ! Yes there are electrical trainee but are you really threatened by them ?

Its not as such its the fact that NIC are still selling the £54k dream plus they wont take responsability for their actions
 
I am part of NIC (sorry dont hate me anymore than you already do) signed off 2 jobs at 10 this morning about 2 minutes apart first one unique code ended in 49 second ended 81 thats 32 x £1.50 = £24 a minute, I would have thought most done in evenings. As long as money like this is being made we are stuck with scams.
 
Part P is NOT the issue. Its the fact that every other trade is doing electrics. My "old" neighbour, who come over from Spain said he simply couldn't understand why the trades all did "each others" work (and mostly badly)
eh?...
so you dont think that jumpin off a 5 week course then a quick part pis registration `assessment` isn`t a problem then?...jesus wept i expected better from you murdock...i really did...
 
eh?...
so you dont think that jumpin off a 5 week course then a quick part pis registration `assessment` isn`t a problem then?...jesus wept i expected better from you murdock...i really did...

Part P or Electrical Trainee or what ever, the basic problem is that there are too many bodgers at work and NOBODY to call people to account for dodgy work.
 
Over the past year I have spent alot of time, being paid, to tidy up others ' bodged up work.

some of it from the 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's, ......... There has always been mediocrity and ineptitude and there always will. Just be the best or plan to be and success will follow. As a natural product.

no charge.
 
It's all about competence in the real sense. I know electronic guys that have a much greater understanding of electrical principles than some " qualified " sparks. I'm not defending Electrical Trainee but some of them are actually very good. Why shouldn't they transfer into an allied trade ? They don't balk when electricians do no courses and stray into other fields ? Intruder, cctv etc etc As long as they understand safe work then why shouldn't they be allowed to diversify ? Free trade is a given
 
It's all about competence in the real sense. I know electronic guys that have a much greater understanding of electrical principles than some " qualified " sparks. I'm not defending Electrical Trainee but some of them are actually very good. Why shouldn't they transfer into an allied trade ? They don't balk when electricians do no courses and stray into other fields ? Intruder, cctv etc etc As long as they understand safe work then why shouldn't they be allowed to diversify ? Free trade is a given
caus they should go to bloody college like we have all had to do...
not some scabby little `training center` someware for a few weeks....
besides....theres too many for not enough work...so how come we have to put up with these short course wonders just floatin in...
oh, and by the way a lot of the crud i come across is usually courtesy of either Mr Poland or a five week know nowt....
 
part pee is a complete farce. it only "regulates" those electricians that join the club. and it does that with about as much efficiency as a wet lettuce operated by a punka wallah.
 
But what about electronics guys that have studied far longer than an apprentice and use a short course to diversify ? Surely they are not exempt from using part p to find new business ?
 
it's not just HMRC. today i got a letter from PRS telling me i needed a music license from them if i played my radio while working. apparently it's public broadcasting. FFS.
 
just on the phone to philD....and he informs me about gas safe informing HMRC about a guy who had installed 150 boilers.....HMRC did him as he had declaired no earnings over that period....
so i think scams are informing HMRC of jobs notified....
 
just on the phone to philD....and he informs me about gas safe informing HMRC about a guy who had installed 150 boilers.....HMRC did him as he had declaired no earnings over that period....
so i think scams are informing HMRC of jobs notified....

I've known for a while about the Gas Safe grasses and guessed it would only be a matter of time before the leccy scamsters started doing the same.
 
just on the phone to philD....and he informs me about gas safe informing HMRC about a guy who had installed 150 boilers.....HMRC did him as he had declaired no earnings over that period....
so i think scams are informing HMRC of jobs notified....

I've nothing to hide. Anyone who notifies work and doesn't declare the related income deserves a visit from HMRC for being a numpty
 
This lark of teaching a bit of a trade and thinking that's it is where the problem lies.
there was a post this week from what seemed a bright enough lad who had been testing for 2 years and wanted to change direction.fair enough
he had no install experience whatsoever and was testing commercial premises for his 2 years.
My take on this is that to be able to test you really do need to know how a job goes together in the first place and that takes time.
the semi trained are doing the trained out of a job is the end result.
i had an email today where due to the "skills shortage"
Select are going to have a pool of apprentices who you can take for 1 month at a set day rate. They pay the college etc etc.end result time served electrician.
a brave try to get apprenticeships for the young team.
Nothing to do with keeping their 45k +car+ benefits jobs then?
 
While many blame Part P there are others who are complicit in this destruction of a once proud and respected industry namely the training centres who are aided and abetted by the City & Guilds who allow people to take courses and exams where the pre requisite is the possession of other trade related C & G qualifications. How can people really be and be allowed to call themselves qualified or fully qualified when all they have passed is a 17th edition and 2391 exam.

Since the introduction of the term competent to replace qualified the quick training schemes have been allowed to redefine what training is needed to be considered an electrician and the part P schemes have colluded in this by accepting what were considered peripheral and additional qualifications to the C&G 2330 etc as the qualifications required along with a wedge of money to be accepted by the scheme

It would be interesting to see some figures on how many people have passed the 2330 exam in the last 5 - 10 years and how many have passed just the 2391 and the 2382 in a training centre

It is difficult to see a way back now unless the City & Guilds clampdown on those sitting the exams so there is a structure put back into training but this would upset the "I want it all and I want it now brigade" who have no time to train properly
 
I've nothing to hide. Anyone who notifies work and doesn't declare the related income deserves a visit from HMRC for being a numpty
its just the scenareo thats all...
the scams inform HMRC about any notifyable jobs....probably half the reason they were set up in the first place.....
but as you says Murdoch...its them thats doing cash in hand stuff, thats not certing their work and that claim their registered with a scheme.....when I know they damned well arn`t....they are the ones who are pisin me of...
you know who you are....
 
I would be happy to see HMRC getting involved and have said it in the past all they have to do is hit the wholesalers to see who is buying stuff with a wad of cash I think its a matter of time a bit like benefits cheats when they get caught they don't take it on the chin no they report the very people who are doing what they did.
 

I'm guessing this is aimed at other forum members so please no handbags!!
NO HANDBAGS....NO HANDBAGS??!!

LISTEN HERE...
we all have to pay for being on one of these schemes.....then one little upstart comes along and thinks the rules that society abides by are not for him....
i`m not mentioning names but he knows who he is and i can tell you something else n all....
i`v a good mind to get on to that scheme provider and tell em just whats goin on.....
why should i (and others) pay for scheme membership....then he comes along and does notifyable works.....that he aint noting...claims to be a scheme member...when he aint
christ....i bet he hasn`t even got public liability.....
so i think you can understand Marvo if i gets a bit browned off over it....
 
I don't know who's with a scheme provider and who isn't, I don't know who's working under the table and who isn't and I also don't know who's certifying their work and who isn't. What I do know is if you're privy to info about someone doing something underhanded, illegal or immoral you're entitled to report them to an appropriate official body who can investigate and seek legal remedy. The forum isn't an appropriate body.
 
NO HANDBAGS....NO HANDBAGS??!!

LISTEN HERE...
we all have to pay for being on one of these schemes.....then one little upstart comes along and thinks the rules that society abides by are not for him....
i`m not mentioning names but he knows who he is and i can tell you something else n all....
i`v a good mind to get on to that scheme provider and tell em just whats goin on.....
why should i (and others) pay for scheme membership....then he comes along and does notifyable works.....that he aint noting...claims to be a scheme member...when he aint
christ....i bet he hasn`t even got public liability.....
so i think you can understand Marvo if i gets a bit browned off over it....

Even if you did report them no Scheme will throw them out why because they need the membership fee morals and ethics have nothing to do with it as the House of Commons enquiry into Part P said that the Schemies had a clear conflict of interests but amazingly never advised on how to tackle it
 
I don't know who's with a scheme provider and who isn't, I don't know who's working under the table and who isn't and I also don't know who's certifying their work and who isn't. What I do know is if you're privy to info about someone doing something underhanded, illegal or immoral you're entitled to report them to an appropriate official body who can investigate and seek legal remedy. The forum isn't an appropriate body.
no...you damned rite it isn`t....which is why i`v not gone all the way here...
and he can thank fu&k i hav`t n all..
but i can assure you now i`m just an inch away from sortin this....
why the hell should i pay good money to operate ligit.....then he comes along claiming on a public forum that he is a scheme member.....when he isn`t....
no...its just not on....
 
Even if you did report them no Scheme will throw them out why because they need the membership fee morals and ethics have nothing to do with it as the House of Commons enquiry into Part P said that the Schemies had a clear conflict of interests but amazingly never advised on how to tackle it
old....the person in question is claiming openly on a public forum that he is a scheme member....when he isn`t.....
and you think they wont do owt about it.....
 
old....the person in question is claiming openly on a public forum that he is a scheme member....when he isn`t.....
and you think they wont do owt about it.....
They dont like people using their name without paying, put more effort in hunting them down than they ever would improving the industry
 
They dont like people using their name without paying, put more effort in hunting them down than they ever would improving the industry
unfortunately so...
but the bottom line here with me is i am paying money to these scams ....so i have a ligitimate right to use the name of the scam of my choosing to try and promote myself to prospective customers and to use it to try to generate interest....
I have paid these s!ags so i have the right to use their name as part of my services.......
so where does he get off then?....
 
Last edited:
unfortunately so...
but the bottom line here with me is i am paying money to these scams ....so i have a ligitimate right to use the name of the scam of my choosing to try and promote myself to prospective customers and to use it to try to generate interest....
I have paid these s1ags so i have the right to use their name as part of my services.......
so where does he get off then?....
agree completely hate paying it but do. Not sure who you mean but would not want my boiler installed by a bloke pretending to be Gas Safe
 
While many blame Part P there are others who are complicit in this destruction of a once proud and respected industry namely the training centres who are aided and abetted by the City & Guilds who allow people to take courses and exams where the pre requisite is the possession of other trade related C & G qualifications. How can people really be and be allowed to call themselves qualified or fully qualified when all they have passed is a 17th edition and 2391 exam.

Since the introduction of the term competent to replace qualified the quick training schemes have been allowed to redefine what training is needed to be considered an electrician and the part P schemes have colluded in this by accepting what were considered peripheral and additional qualifications to the C&G 2330 etc as the qualifications required along with a wedge of money to be accepted by the scheme

It would be interesting to see some figures on how many people have passed the 2330 exam in the last 5 - 10 years and how many have passed just the 2391 and the 2382 in a training centre

It is difficult to see a way back now unless the City & Guilds clampdown on those sitting the exams so there is a structure put back into training but this would upset the "I want it all and I want it now brigade" who have no time to train properly
and a prime example of this was the old 2391.....
time n time again when you look at the chief examiners reports for this exam its all about wrong terminology, no understanding about choice & setting of OPDs, no concept of earth paths.....ect ect...
clearly many candidates that were being accepted to take this exam were simply not at the level (at that time in their development) to stand any real chance of success.
thats when you get cross and start to realise its all about getting arses on seats....not about the quality of the candidates they turn out or the chances of success of said candidates...
dispicable...it really is....
 

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