The Ring is dead, long live the Radial!⚡

[telectrix]

In the US, the ring circuit is a totally different concept to me, everything is wired radial.

As I investigated this, it seems it's used to insure proper voltage & amperage depending on where the home is located in proximity to a power station.
Am, I correct?

Stateside, using a ring circuit, the issue would be to make sure it's connected back to the correct leg @ CU (panel)! If not, that'd be a dead short.

the purpose of a ring is to share the load between both legs. e.g. cable rated at 27A (2.5mm in UK) with a ring circuit it almost doubles the current capacity. at the mid point a 30A load will share current 15A each leg. so cable is not overloaded. at other points on the ring, the sharing is proportional to the respective lengths of each leg. near 1 end, the short leg will carry more current than the longer leg, due to lower resistance.

 

[LastManOnline]

I have never seen any sockets wired in 1.5mm in France, but I do have very limited access to other peoples installations, say about half a dozen since I retired.

Have you sockets and switches in your bathroom?

 

[telectrix]

When cooking a breakfast do you:
1. Use bacon
2. Use sausages

both, also eggs, beans, tomatoes, mushrooms, hash browns, toat, and a pint of Old peculier.

 

[Andy78]

both, also eggs, beans, tomatoes, mushrooms, hash browns, toat, and a pint of Old peculier.

You forgot the black pud but I'll let you off ?

 

[telectrix]

You forgot the black pud but I'll let you off ?

but i don't like black pudding. diane abbott is labour. my political leanings are slightly to the right of maggie thatcher, (God bless).

 

[Mike Johnson]

Have you sockets and switches in your bathroom?

Yes, mine are RCBO protected.

 

[UNG]

You forgot the black pud but I'll let you off ?

In the interests of equality and diversity what about white pudding

 

[Pete999]

Not sure if you were addressing my point or not but the separate circuit requirements for a fixed load over 2KW can be found in Annex 55A, Final Circuit Arrangements (Normative), 4th Ed., page 306

Thanks

In the interests of equality and diversity what about white pudding

BPM Black Pudding Matters

 

[telectrix]

In the interests of equality and diversity what about white pudding

Dawn French or Vanessa Feltz.

 

[Pete999]

Thanks

BPM Black Pudding Matters

But they can't do Sums

 

[LastManOnline]

Yes, mine are RCBO protected.

Thanks for that info. (I don't dare start a thread here on sockets and switches in bathrooms?). Should I assume that other French homes are not RCBO protected?

 

[pc1966]

In the interests of equality and diversity what about white pudding

Or a red pudding?
Or a smoked sausage?
We have to cater to all tastes here!

 

[telectrix]

Or a red pudding?
Or a smoked sausage?
We have to cater to all tastes here!

all tasres maybe, but not the vegans. they originate from the planet Vega and are aliens beyond our comprehension.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Thanks for that info. (I don't dare start a thread here on sockets and switches in bathrooms?). Should I assume that other French homes are not RCBO protected?

I have never seen an RCBO in any other French home, but they do all have at least three RCD's most have four.

 

[telectrix]

I have never seen an RCBO in any other French home, but they do all have at least three RCD's most have four.

4 RCDs??? similar to the number of reverse gears on their 1940 tanks.

 

[Mike Johnson]

You must be thinking of the Italians.

As the regulation restrict the amount of MCB's per RCD (eight) and the requirement to have separate radials for most white goods and other items the amount of RCD's soon mount up and lets face it we in the UK where very late in realising we should have two.

 

[Andy78]

In the interests of equality and diversity what about white pudding

It ain't bad, but never see the stuff in shops round here.

 

[pc1966]

all tasres maybe, but not the vegans. they originate from the planet Vega and are aliens beyond our comprehension.

I did know a lady who turned vegan who was quite tasty. No Chianti, before you ask...

 

[ipf]

4 RCDs??? similar to the number of reverse gears on their 1940 tanks.

Wouldn't have made any difference anyway, the Gerries were behind them as well.....so much for the magnificent Maginot line.....we'll just go round it.

 

[telectrix]

Wouldn't have made any difference anyway, the Gerries were behind them as well.....so much for the magnificent Maginot line.....we'll just go round it.

Maginot Line was a waste of time. they should have built it as a ring, not a radial.

 

[telectrix]

Maginot Line was a waste of time. they should have built it as a ring, not a radial.

see what I did there. brought the thread back on topic.

 

[ipf]

Maginot Line was a waste of time. they should have built it as a ring, not a radial.

Well at least there was a strong Resistance, must have been a circuit of some sort.

 

[telectrix]

Well at least there was a strong Resistance, must have been a circuit of some sort.

you need to speak to Rene about the resistance... listen carefully. I shall only say this once.

 

[ipf]

you need to speak to Rene about the resistance... listen carefully. I shall only say this once.

Only ‘wernce’. You’re itching for the Madonna with the big boobies.

 

[Mike Johnson]

"Good moaning" "You stupid woman, I was giving her the kiss of life"

 

[ipf]

Still undercover, I see, Mike.

 

[davesparks]

Aye, what about a cooker unit with socket outlet?

That is exactly what I was thinking of

 

[Maji236]

Are you mistaking multimeters for the Multi Function Testers (MFT's) we use for installation testing, we still use the standard multimeters but these are not capable of carrying out the tests needed to verify an installation

You've got a good point, can't do a megohm test with a multimeter.

To be more specific, as an electrician (installer), we're not required to do these loop tests, megohm tests on houses, last I knew anyway. I have been required to do these in factories for certain circuits as well as for feeders. On some jobs, ie: power plants, chip fab plants; we did have crews "commissioning" EVERY circuit, including feeders.

 

[stevethesparks]

Might have been nice having a response from the original OP

 

[pc1966]

You've got a good point, can't do a megohm test with a multimeter.

To be more specific, as an electrician (installer), we're not required to do these loop tests, megohm tests on houses, last I knew anyway. I have been required to do these in factories for certain circuits as well as for feeders. On some jobs, ie: power plants, chip fab plants; we did have crews "commissioning" EVERY circuit, including feeders.

There is a very strong requirement here for dead testing before the circuit is energized, both for a full installation and for simply adding a new circuit to an existing system. That applies for domestic, commercial and industrial stuff.

Not just IR testing to see if the cable is OK, but also testing R1+R2 (live and earth resistances) both to verify socket & SP switch polarity, and also from the boards Ze (earth loop impedance) to check the circuit's Zs value is going to allow fast enough disconnection by the choice of fuse or MCB, etc.

 

[Midwest]

There is a very strong requirement here for dead testing before the circuit is energized, both for a full installation and for simply adding a new circuit to an existing system. That applies for domestic, commercial and industrial stuff.

Not just IR testing to see if the cable is OK, but also testing R1+R2 (live and earth resistances) both to verify socket & SP switch polarity, and also from the boards Ze (earth loop impedance) to check the circuit's Zs value is going to allow fast enough disconnection by the choice of fuse or MCB, etc.

Me thinks they do things slightly differently in the US. Might be wrong.

 

[telectrix]

Me thinks they do things slightly differently in the US. Might be wrong.

USA use the tried and trusted 3fold Test. .
1.it works.
2 it not work.
3. it goes bang.

first 1, fine.
2nd one call supervisor.
3rd one run away.

 

[Maji236]

USA use the tried and trusted 3fold Test. .
1.it works.
2 it not work.
3. it goes bang.

first 1, fine.
2nd one call supervisor.
3rd one run away.

Pretty much, yeah.

 

[Paul Maughan]

Radials are usually quicker to install and quicker to test - so cheaper on labour, material wise breakers are same price and cable works out about the same or actually cheaper without the return leg.(Eg 30m of 4mm or 60m of 2.5mm) I do mainly commercial and use 25a 4mm radials a lot for runs along store walls etc. Also wiring rings in singles in containment is a massive pain to keep the right “leg” together and also twice as many drums to get tangled up and wrapped round your ladders ? rings have there place still, probably make more sense in houses and offices kitchens etc

 

[LukeD]

When we buy a house later this year .I am doing a radial rewire . Might mean a huge consumer .But if possible will make every room radials etc

 

[telectrix]

When we buy a house later this year .I am doing a radial rewire . Might mean a huge consumer .But if possible will make every room radials etc

my preference is rings for kitches/utility rooms. 2-3 radials for rest of house. (average house, not a mansion).

 

[brianmoooore]

I built and wired my own house around forty years ago. If I could go back, with what I know today, each kid's bedroom would have had its own radial and MCB.

 

[pc1966]

When we buy a house later this year .I am doing a radial rewire . Might mean a huge consumer .But if possible will make every room radials etc

All socket circuits fitted with £150 AFDD as 18th Amendment 2 is looking like?

 

[LukeD]

All socket circuits fitted with £150 AFDD as 18th Amendment 2 is looking like?

"It was like this when we purchased it " !

 

[Dustydazzler]

You can now buy an afdddddrcbbbbo for £149.99

 

[7029 dave]

I built and wired my own house around forty years ago. If I could go back, with what I know today, each kid's bedroom would have had its own radial and MCB.

And coin meter ?

 

[ipf]

You can now buy an afdddddrcbbbbo for £149.99

Then a power surge and everything’s goosed? ?

 

[static zap]

USA use the tried and trusted 3fold Test. .
1.it works.
2 it not work.
3. it goes bang.

4 If you are lucky something smells funny ,
and the AFDD has tripped.

(no, was just customer breaking wind when heard price.)