What to put in your continuity box. with NO CPC around

[Kyran]

HI all
Am i being thick here or Ive got to be missing something.

When your faced with lighting with no earth client does not want to rewire as the places is nicely decorated, and they can’t afford the extra cost. How do you fill in your certs.

eg. fit new SELV down lights to bathroom on pre-existing wires and wholes. but as theres no CPC you can’t do a continuity. As you just have line and neutral on the circuit. So what do you put in the R1+R2 or R2 boxes. if don’t have anything to measure?

Now i know theres no regs that force a rewire and building regs only say that you cant leave the job no worse compliance then before the job. As well as not having any other class 1 or metal accessories. and your main earth is appropriate size, as well as main bounding.

How do you then comply and cert your work. I get that yes you sticker the board saying that no metal can be use on X lighting circuit and the risk assessment is done. but still what do you put in the continuity box on your cert.

 

[Silly Sausage]

I'd put N/A and note that there is no cpc.

 

[Pete999]

Make a note on the cert that the lighting circuit has no cpc and that you have advised the client that only class 2 fittings are to be used

 

[telectrix]

what he said ^^^^^. and now i've got to rattle the brain cells and find something to disagree with archy on. :49:

 

[Kyran]

I'd put N/A and note that there is no cpc.

wow really and thats allowed, I didn't think its would be that simple or allowed.

 

[TJ Anderson]

HI all
Am i being thick here or Ive got to be missing something.

When your faced with lighting with no earth client does not want to rewire as the places is nicely decorated, and they can’t afford the extra cost. How do you fill in your certs.

eg. fit new SELV down lights to bathroom on pre-existing wires and wholes. but as theres no CPC you can’t do a continuity. As you just have line and neutral on the circuit. So what do you put in the R1+R2 or R2 boxes. if don’t have anything to measure?

Now i know theres no regs that force a rewire and building regs only say that you cant leave the job no worse compliance then before the job. As well as not having any other class 1 or metal accessories. and your main earth is appropriate size, as well as main bounding.

How do you then comply and cert your work. I get that yes you sticker the board saying that no metal can be use on X lighting circuit and the risk assessment is done. but still what do you put in the continuity box on your cert.

The only test for that circuit is I/R L-N before any loads connected & RCD. Just write it up as it is and put N/A for R1+R2 & Zs.

 

[Silly Sausage]

what he said ^^^^^. and now i've got to rattle the brain cells and find something to disagree with archy on. :49:

WOAH, losing your touch Tel?!? :smilielol5:

 

[TJ Anderson]

wow really and thats allowed, I didn't think its would be that simple or allowed.

If there is no cpc and your new fittings are Class 2 then what is the problem?

 

[Kyran]

If there is no cpc and your new fittings are Class 2 then what is the problem?

None, i just thought it was one of those absolute boxes that you had to put something in. great i am not going bonkers..

 

[telectrix]

WOAH, losing your touch Tel?!? :smilielol5:

temporary hitch till i get some beer down. just wait till we get the navvies to excavate that M60 and then fill it with water.

 

[nickblake]

And label the board warning there is not cpc in lighting circuits

 

[Plonker 3]

And label the board warning there is not cpc in lighting circuits

Why? Anyone who works with electrics should be competant to do so and be aware when surveying or carrying out the work there isnt one if using class 1 fittings

 

[Guest125]

Why? Anyone who works with electrics should be competant to do so and be aware when surveying or carrying out the work there isnt one if using class 1 fittings

You should not be installing class 1 fittings on a circuit with no cpc.

If a lighting circuit has no cps a label should be fitted to the board. Standard practice.

 

[baldsparkies]

You should not be installing class 1 fittings on a circuit with no cpc.

If a lighting circuit has no cps a label should be fitted to the board. Standard practice.

Agreed on point 1
At your discretion on point 2.
There is no regulation or mandatory commitment regarding the lack of cpc warning labels.
And it wouldn't be there for a future qualified sparks benefit cus if he's worth his salt he would be aware of the situation pretty sharpish.
Its the user/home owner that's going to need to be educated and made aware of the potential risks regarding class 1 kit.
And they are the last people to read labels on there boards.
If it floats yer boat fit one, choice is yours.

 

[telectrix]

i.m surprised the 3rd amendment doesn't specify non combustible labels. they now comprise 50% of the weight of the CU.

 

[baldsparkies]

Mind you if you do fit a lack of cpc warning notice,

I suppose you could reward yourself with an extra big tick in the 3rd box of the Identification section of your installation cert.

Ok who went and had a look, own up. :icon12:

 

[Des 56]

i.m surprised the 3rd amendment doesn't specify non combustible labels. they now comprise 50% of the weight of the CU.

I keep mine in my "continuity box"

 

[telectrix]

one thig i like abot BG boards. the bloody labels all go on the inside of the lid and so are out of sight when lid is closed.

 

[telectrix]

xcuse thr typos. cleaned up my keyboard. now it can't say f*ck, tw4t or boll*cks

 

[Silly Sausage]

i.m surprised the 3rd amendment doesn't specify non combustible labels. they now comprise 50% of the weight of the CU.

If one writes the warning on the CU with a permanent marker pen, would that help to ease E54's brain meltdown when he sees all this chatter about labels?

 

[Silly Sausage]

xcuse thr typos. cleaned up my keyboard. now it can't say f*ck, tw4t or boll*cks

It hasn't stopped the scouser spiel though!

 

[R G]

If one writes the warning on the CU with a permanent marker pen, would that help to ease E54's brain meltdown when he sees all this chatter about labels?

Be better if you write on the customers front door to warn visitors and the public ...

 

[Guest125]

Agreed on point 1
At your discretion on point 2.
There is no regulation or mandatory commitment regarding the lack of cpc warning labels.
And it wouldn't be there for a future qualified sparks benefit cus if he's worth his salt he would be aware of the situation pretty sharpish.
Its the user/home owner that's going to need to be educated and made aware of the potential risks regarding class 1 kit.
And they are the last people to read labels on there boards.
If it floats yer boat fit one, choice is yours.

So we should ask all metallic lighting manufacturers to remove the 'this light must be earthed'? tag on their fittings.

 

[specs]

If one writes the warning on the CU with a permanent marker pen, would that help to ease E54's brain meltdown when he sees all this chatter about labels?

I very much doubt it

 

[ipf]

None, i just thought it was one of those absolute boxes that you had to put something in. great i am not going bonkers..

Speaking of boxes.....don't forget those behind the switches...

 

[baldsparkies]

So we should ask all metallic lighting manufacturers to remove the 'this light must be earthed'? tag on their fittings.

Doesn't matter cus the punters take em off as soon as they get em home and fit them to there light circuits that have no cpc.
What's this ruddy bit of green and yellow cable, "snip" that's better.

How does that look love ?
Oooohhh ! lovely Sid, well done, nooky for you tonight love xx

 

[Pete999]

Why? Anyone who works with electrics should be competant to do so and be aware when surveying or carrying out the work there isnt one if using class 1 fittings

See no reason why you couldn't put a label on the CU to warn the next sparky who possibly going to carry out work, common sense really.

 

[Leesparkykent]

Doesn't matter cus the punters take em off as soon as they get em home and fit them to there light circuits that have no cpc.
What's this ruddy bit of green and yellow cable, "snip" that's better.

How does that look love ?
Oooohhh ! lovely Sid, well done, nooky for you tonight love xx

The manufacture kindly put it in cable so you can use it to strip the it. Lol

edit:I've just realised your on about the green and yellow on the fitting, I'm a prat lol

 

[sparksburnout]

Agreed on point 1
At your discretion on point 2.
There is no regulation or mandatory commitment regarding the lack of cpc warning labels.
And it wouldn't be there for a future qualified sparks benefit cus if he's worth his salt he would be aware of the situation pretty sharpish.
Its the user/home owner that's going to need to be educated and made aware of the potential risks regarding class 1 kit.
And they are the last people to read labels on there boards.
If it floats yer boat fit one, choice is yours.

Bloody good points baldy. Who takes any notice of these daft notices? Like others have said, only sparkles should be diving into the CU's, and any worth their salt should not need notices telling them that the are no CPC's or mixed wiring colours, and no person I have ever met had EVER tested their RCD's, what a load of rubbish.

 

[uksparks]

It's nice when you do an EICR when the lights have no cpc as it just makes things a lot easier as you can damn near ignore the light circuits.

 

[Plonker 3]

See no reason why you couldn't put a label on the CU to warn the next sparky who possibly going to carry out work, common sense really.

exactly, any one working with electrics should have some of this and know to check if one is present.

I actually changed a couple of pendants today for class one lights, I issue a MWC when do this as a matter of course, so a quick Zs and R1+R2 and proved a CPC is present.

 

[sparksburnout]

Doesn't matter cus the punters take em off as soon as they get em home and fit them to there light circuits that have no cpc.
What's this ruddy bit of green and yellow cable, "snip" that's better.

How does that look love ?
Oooohhh ! lovely Sid, well done, nooky for you tonight love xx

Sid. Sid? Who the yells called Sid? Do you mean Mr James? Your showing your age mate.

 

[baldsparkies]

It's nice when you do an EICR when the lights have no cpc as it just makes things a lot easier as you can damn near ignore the light circuits.

Beg to differ but if the lighting circuits have no cpc ignoring them is the last thing you should do.
Why ??
Cus Mr DIY has probably got loads of C2's lurking for you.:icon12:

 

[Guest125]

Bloody good points baldy. Who takes any notice of these daft notices? Like others have said, only sparkles should be diving into the CU's, and any worth their salt should not need notices telling them that the are no CPC's or mixed wiring colours, and no person I have ever met had EVER tested their RCD's, what a load of rubbish.

I do agree but it does not matter if they pay attention or not. It is there so that someone can say 'you was told' if someone gets hurt.

Do we all think that the majority really takes note of an EICR either? Most say thank you very much and you never even get the call back to carry out the remedials. We don't say 'well, there is no point in doing that anymore'

 

[Guest125]

exactly, any one working with electrics should have some of this and know to check if one is present.

I actually changed a couple of pendants today for class one lights, I issue a MWC when do this as a matter of course, so a quick Zs and R1+R2 and proved a CPC is present.

Should really have done the R1+R2 and THEN the Zs... Tut tut!!

 

[baldsparkies]

Well I have my new board labels made up,

BALDY WUZ YER
CHECK YER FRIGGIN SHOWER FOR 6mm CABLES
IF IN DOUBT, CONSULT A QUALIFIED PLUMBER

 

[Silly Sausage]

Well I have my new board labels made up,

BALDY WUZ YER
CHECK YER FRIGGIN SHOWER FOR 6mm CABLES
IF IN DOUBT, CONSULT A QUALIFIED PLUMBER

Are you 100% certain that your label complies with BS7671 for the allowable colours for warning labels?

 

[baldsparkies]

Not sure how much Bull Shite Iv'e come out with over the years,
But I'm sure its more than 7,671.
And non of it complies with bugger all. :angel_smile:

 

[Engineer54]

So we should ask all metallic lighting manufacturers to remove the 'this light must be earthed'? tag on their fittings.

I think you'd be surprised just how many companies are manufacturing metal light fittings that fully comply with Class 2/double insulated requirements. So it's no longer an easy task to identify between Class 1 and Class 2 fittings!!