What's your hourly cash rate? Just had a grumbling customer!

[LlandrilloSpark]

Happy Xmas fellas

What's your hourly cash rate?
I've just had a customer grumble on me when I charged him £15 an hour cash, I wouldn't mind but the guy has plenty of money.

I got the job by him seeing my van , I went to look at the job pretty much as soon as I parked up on a Friday at 3pm, I asked him when do you want me start and he said tommorow ad the plasterer wants to board it!
So I missed being with my kids and worked the first fix on Saturday.
I worked late to do the second fix and did some extras for him.
When it comes to invoice time ge tells me that he has had several "electricians" work for him at a max of £12-£14 an hour

My response was that they are not qualified sparks

Sad thing is there is a bit of work there and I now may not get it

 

[DaveyD]

Round here (south west) a day rate starts at £160 sub to a builder. Obv more on own work.
Regards
David

 

[telectrix]

£15 is very reasonable. £12-£14 /hour is a decent rate for employed sparks-- you have your vehicle, insurances, scam fees, own tools, paperwork to do in your own time.etc.etc. all on top. was the guy's name scrooge? charge him £20 next time, and tell him myou'll work for £12 when he can't get hold of you. why did he not call in the previous guy/s for£!2. probably coz. they won't answer their phone to him.

 

[DurhamSparky]

1 Rate = £25 cash cheque or bacs... no discount for cash!

if he wants to pay peanuts let him..
so why could his "sparks" not do this job then..! i think he is full of BULL..!

 

[LlandrilloSpark]

I did some sums last night based on 12000 miles year, the mpg of my van and the cost of diesel, added to that service, mot, insurance, road tax, advertising and business fees
I totalled it and divided by my average hours worked per year and I need £2 an hour just to run the business, then there is my stamp and taxes, so if you charge 15 you could end up pocketing about 11 an hour....poo for all the effort

 

[accordfire]

Happy Xmas fellas

What's your hourly cash rate?
I've just had a customer grumble on me when I charged him £15 an hour cash, I wouldn't mind but the guy has plenty of money.

I got the job by him seeing my van , I went to look at the job pretty much as soon as I parked up on a Friday at 3pm, I asked him when do you want me start and he said tommorow ad the plasterer wants to board it!
So I missed being with my kids and worked the first fix on Saturday.
I worked late to do the second fix and did some extras for him.
When it comes to invoice time ge tells me that he has had several "electricians" work for him at a max of £12-£14 an hour

My response was that they are not qualified sparks

Sad thing is there is a bit of work there and I now may not get it

IMO - he got a damn good deal for a Saturday, and he knows it!

£15 an hour is lad's money round here. I'd lay odds he'll call you before you ever have to call him again too.

There is a point when it simply just isn't worth having work - and this guy is mighty close to being that point. So, you end up with a little less work, but more time with your family - I know which I'd choose - and I know too, that soon enough your rate will look sensible to him too - he's a bully, and a chancer, that's all.

Stand your ground, my friend, and if he doesn't like it, of course he's free to go elsewhere. You may have lost out on what, £120 - but there'll be another job along shortly which offers better than that for sure.

You set your rates mate - not your customers.

You have to stop and think why this guy, with all these "electricians" he knows is suddenly reduced to ringing up guys from the numbers on the side of their van.......and for a rush job too......sounds like a fairly major tools away fall out with the last "12-£14" sparks who got wise mate.

Better off without it!

 

[leolec]

£25 - on the border - I let them know up front when I'm making the appointment and have never not booked the appt

 

[spsparks]

I reckon your too cheap and he is a chump. Next time dont mention hr rate and charge him 20 quid ph

 

[John Bunning]

i charge £29 per hr take it or leave it .propper job costs dosh .any problems i will allway return .had one guy knock me be back to £25 after the job was done and dusted .no problems re invoiced at 25.
next time he called told him what to do with his work .£14 not worth getting out of the van 4

 

[telectrix]

i charge £29 per hr take it or leave it .propper job costs dosh .any problems i will allway return .had one guy knock me be back to £25 after the job was done and dusted .no problems re invoiced at 25.
next time he called told him what to do with his work .£14 not worth getting out of the van 4

£14, not even worth starting the van, let alone going out

 

[BluSparx]

My rate is £25 + Vat per hour you either like it or lump it I don't work for nothing I aint a charity and set this up front with all customers so they know what they are paying in advance.

If then they want to try and knock me down I just return to the signed contract and say "This is what we agreed and as such all my side is complete and done as agreed now you just need to pay to complete your side of the agreement"

Only ever had 1 person try and knock me down and believe it or not was for a job I had been contracted to do by a landscape garden who said the customer hadn't paid him properly so he couldnt pay me full rate - Bull

Stick to your guns mate

 

[Sparky Ninja]

Saturday cash work I would charge minimum £25 per hour, £200 day rate.

Sometimes I charge £20 per hour depending on the client etc


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[multicore]

Hi all, i would say about twice that for some firms

 

[zedess]

Exactly!! and on a Saturday!....he would have passed out with my invoice,plenty of them about, there called WxxKxxS.........stay clear..

 

[gpz900jim]

i think he is trying it on, if he had other people who could work for him, why would he want to give an (to him) unknown quantity a start? it doesnt make sense, try to keep it at 150 a day and that covers all of your overheads too.. it can be demoralising to sell yourself too cheap.

 

[sparky1502]

i cant believe the jerk was moaning over a few quid my moto in life is you pay cheap you pay twice...tell him to get bent

 

[sparks1234]

Cant believe somebody would come on here asking what a "cash" rate is

 

[UNG]

Sounds like the customer was a member of the legal profession, I have only ever had problems getting paid what I wanted for a job when I have worked for solicitors usually a cheque sent in the post for way below job value with a letter stating he thinks what the job is worth. Having done some work for a retired head court clerk I have since found out how to embarass a solicitor and prevent him taking cases to court, it's a pity I avoid doing work for solicitors so I won't have a chance to try it

 

[accordfire]

Sounds like the customer was a member of the legal profession, I have only ever had problems getting paid what I wanted for a job when I have worked for solicitors usually a cheque sent in the post for way below job value with a letter stating he thinks what the job is worth. Having done some work for a retired head court clerk I have since found out how to embarass a solicitor and prevent him taking cases to court, it's a pity I avoid doing work for solicitors so I won't have a chance to try it

Yup, briefs and accountants.

Both seem to have a totally different set of rules for paying, against getting paid.

There's a word for them....

Professional Robbers In Claiming Knowledgeable Skills!!!!!

 

[DurhamSparky]

Having done some work for a retired head court clerk I have since found out how to embarass a solicitor and prevent him taking cases to court,

enlighten us please????

 

[ringer]

... I have since found out how to embarass a solicitor and prevent him taking cases to court, it's a pity I avoid doing work for solicitors so I won't have a chance to try it

I am sure there are lots of us now wanting to know this. In the Arms if you want, but do tell, come on UNG, spill the beans!

 

[tes11]

£25 ph is a fair price for quality workmanship £14 ph cowboy land Leave a good job build a rep hard in present times i know but as u now overheads to cover good luck stick to your guns

 

[kung]

Agree sounds like he tried ripping the other sparks off and trying the same stunt with you ! i wouldnt get my slippers off for £14 ! used to do a bit of work for a local firm MR ******** and their phones were ringing all the time with work and they charge £75 call out inc first hr ! so my £29 phr or £200 a day sounds good in berkshire !

 

[theugly]

i am a newly qualified electrician and i charge 30/h, looks still have some customers, i nerver thought less than 25/h, 25 is only for friends really, 15 really suprised me, sounds like i have been overcharging my customers

 

[millwall ken]

Happy Xmas fellas

What's your hourly cash rate?
I've just had a customer grumble on me when I charged him £15 an hour cash, I wouldn't mind but the guy has plenty of money.

I got the job by him seeing my van , I went to look at the job pretty much as soon as I parked up on a Friday at 3pm, I asked him when do you want me start and he said tommorow ad the plasterer wants to board it!
So I missed being with my kids and worked the first fix on Saturday.
I worked late to do the second fix and did some extras for him.
When it comes to invoice time ge tells me that he has had several "electricians" work for him at a max of £12-£14 an hour

My response was that they are not qualified sparks

Sad thing is there is a bit of work there and I now may not get it

Mate, if the thick t*** thinks that that is an unreasonable rate, then give him the shirt off of your back, drive home and collect the missus and kids - or mum and dad if you live with 'em, then drive back and inform said t*** that 'you work for these people, not thin air.' Alternatively, you could always get his old lady to swallow your pride when he ain't around. It don't help much but will make you feel better.

 

[eskimo39]

I charge £20 per hour standard time, £30 weekend & 24 hour call out and 2 Biscuits and a cup of tea for OAP's (£9.00). Although I don't do cash jobs, but in all honesty if it is an old person or someone who is obviously not very well off, I usually just take a drink/snack from them.

 

[pinkonthebrain]

Hi there, been told by many of my elderly patiants that i go to heaven , i,m glutton for the elderly dont earn any money , one day ill be a millionare, in my dreams. one day ill be elderly.

 

[telectrix]

I charge £20 per hour standard time, £30 weekend & 24 hour call out and 2 Biscuits and a cup of tea for OAP's (£9.00). Although I don't do cash jobs, but in all honesty if it is an old person or someone who is obviously not very well off, I usually just take a drink/snack from them.

same here, £40 call=out, after1st hour then £20/hour, elderly and disabled, if local, £10 for a pint and a packet of smokes. one day soon, i'll be old

 

[Amp David]

i am a newly qualified electrician and i charge 30/h, looks still have some customers, i nerver thought less than 25/h, 25 is only for friends really, 15 really suprised me, sounds like i have been overcharging my customers

Good if you can get it, but at least Dick Turpin wore a mask

Bit steep if newly qualified and just getting to grips with the job. IMHO

 

[accordfire]

Good if you can get it, but at least Dick Turpin wore a mask

Bit steep if newly qualified and just getting to grips with the job. IMHO

We're trying to get some second hand masks from our local council - specially for the launch of our new £90 an hour domestic non part P approved, scam....SCHEME.

The idea is that we've photo-shopped up some quals - didn't need a five day course, HA!, gotten a name very similar to another already on the Part P register, and we don't need guides, or books, because we just post the difficult ones up here, if we can't talk the punters into a load of work they don't really need - we're going to use the next series of Rogue Traders for our advertising.

We don't need insurance, because we got a great deal on Pay as you go phones - and we figured for the quiet times, we'll go round knocking on doors, offering CU upgrades because we've got some left over from a job down the road, and we don't want to waste them - the guvnor will go spare if we take them back -

And the crowning glory - Our company name, and tag line will be:

4Cash Decorating and Electrical - "We're Electricians, because we say we are".

I reckon, to be honest, we'll do well. It seems to work for others.

 

[telectrix]

We're trying to get some second hand masks from our local council - specially for the launch of our new £90 an hour domestic non part P approved, scam....SCHEME.

The idea is that we've photo-shopped up some quals - didn't need a five day course, HA!, gotten a name very similar to another already on the Part P register, and we don't need guides, or books, because we just post the difficult ones up here, if we can't talk the punters into a load of work they don't really need - we're going to use the next series of Rogue Traders for our advertising.

We don't need insurance, because we got a great deal on Pay as you go phones - and we figured for the quiet times, we'll go round knocking on doors, offering CU upgrades because we've got some left over from a job down the road, and we don't want to waste them - the guvnor will go spare if we take them back -

And the crowning glory - Our company name, and tag line will be:

4Cash Decorating and Electrical - "We're Electricians, because we say we are".

I reckon, to be honest, we'll do well. It seems to work for others.

i've got several od wylex 3036 fused boards i was going to strip for tat, but now i see there is a market for them, refurbished with nails in the fuse carriers ( for plumber fitted showers and DIY light fitters ) . just got to scrape the old plaster and paint off, supply a roll of tape as there are no covers over the fuses. bargain at £30 a pop.

 

[accordfire]

i've got several od wylex 3036 fused boards i was going to strip for tat, but now i see there is a market for them, refurbished with nails in the fuse carriers ( for plumber fitted showers and DIY light fitters ) . just got to scrape the old plaster and paint off, supply a roll of tape as there are no covers over the fuses. bargain at £30 a pop.

£30 seems reasonable - that's per fuse way, right?

Make the tape an optional upgrade, and offer a choice of nail - a cheap one that'll go really quick when the rust hits it, or an "upgraded" nail that'll never blow, no matter how much load it handles. An extra tenner a nail for that.

Maybe it's just the old cynic coming out in me - but I swear some folks really do try to run a business that way.

 

[telectrix]

and here was me calculating load and de-rating factors

 

[accordfire]

and here was me calculating load and de-rating factors

Too much work mate. Just fit a bigger nail to be sure.

 

[Izzy's Dad]

I agree with Accordfire, the guy's a bully! You get them all the time "oh I can get it done for blah blah" My answer is always: Well you get it done then mate!
I was talking to a brickie a few weeks ago, who was working for peanuts to get the work. He was moaning his a*** off. My answer to him was: "mate I'd rather shove yogurt pots on a conveyor at muller than de value myself and my profession" It's a damn sight harder to pull back than it is to give it away!

 

[kung]

View attachment 3148QUOTE=accordfire;200432]Too much work mate. Just fit a bigger nail to be sure.[/QUOTE]

Like this one !!!! just got a tripping rcd to sort out thats bugging me at the moment might need to sell it for repairs/spares !

 

[millwall ken]

i've got several od wylex 3036 fused boards i was going to strip for tat, but now i see there is a market for them, refurbished with nails in the fuse carriers ( for plumber fitted showers and DIY light fitters ) . just got to scrape the old plaster and paint off, supply a roll of tape as there are no covers over the fuses. bargain at £30 a pop.

Oh telectrix - you're oh so witty, you make me blush....

 

[telectrix]

or should i ship them to poland for a better price

 

[millwall ken]

or should i ship them to poland for a better price

Yer mate, Lol

 

[accordfire]

View attachment 3148QUOTE=accordfire;200432]Too much work mate. Just fit a bigger nail to be sure.

Like this one !!!! just got a tripping rcd to sort out thats bugging me at the moment might need to sell it for repairs/spares ![/QUOTE]

Ah - the old "guaranteed fault call out" adapter.....miraculously disappears when the invoice is paid!

 

[sparx24]

£30/hr min of 2 hrs. Domestic rate.
£35-40 commercial/industrial all plus VAT.
Rural Kent (very rural) more sheep than people here, mind you some pretty sheep and some U-G-L-I people!
Trading Standards/Trust Mark registration helps.

 

[BLBelfast]

My pricing is £25 an hour. 15% markup on materials plus some fixed pricing eg £25 per socket changed obviously lowering if there is more to do. £25 a downlight supplied and fitted.

The problem I have is knowing what to charge for the likes of a kitchen where I am spending alot of time tracking and it is dirty work. Do youse all charge per point no matter what is involved?

 

[accordfire]

My pricing is £25 an hour. 15% markup on materials plus some fixed pricing eg £25 per socket changed obviously lowering if there is more to do. £25 a downlight supplied and fitted.

The problem I have is knowing what to charge for the likes of a kitchen where I am spending alot of time tracking and it is dirty work. Do youse all charge per point no matter what is involved?

I don't, generally. Charing a fixed price per point is somewhat akin to Fixed Rate Pricing (see the thread on Interesting but American). For us, there's little substitute in visiting the site first, and pricing the work required. We treat time and materials separately for quote purposes - that is, we mark materials up, and use labour rates which are calculated to cover overheads and direct costs.

 

[BLBelfast]

Yeah it is just the labour rates which I cant seem to quite get right.

Sometimes I overcharge which loss' me the job and other times I undercharge which ends up costing me. Done a job about 4 months ago and priced it so low that when I hit a water pipe by accident and had to pay for the plumber to fix it I made about £20 for a two day job.

 

[accordfire]

Yeah it is just the labour rates which I cant seem to quite get right.

Sometimes I overcharge which loss' me the job and other times I undercharge which ends up costing me. Done a job about 4 months ago and priced it so low that when I hit a water pipe by accident and had to pay for the plumber to fix it I made about £20 for a two day job.

Well, labour rates should be worked out based on what it actually costs you to provide that labour, at that point, for that job.

In simple terms, all your overheads and direct costs, totalled, then divided by the number of hours you work in a year - usually around 2080.

This gives you a direct cost of labour assuming that you are actually charging every last working hour out. Most of us don't, and can't. After holidays, sickness, and other time off, there's typically around 220 working days in a year. That's around 1760 working hours. Then, most of us, in "one man" terms, actually work an average of 5 chargeable hours a day - the rest we give away one way and another. That means that your overheads/direct costs have to be paid for in as few as 1100 chargeable hours each year.

As an example - assume that rent, rates, cost of van, PC, tools, and so on cost you £10,000 per year. Divide that by 1100 and you get £9.09 per hour.

In other words, you need to earn £9.09 every working hour, just to stand still - and you need to make sure you have 1100 hours of chargeable work in each year too. On top of this, however, you need to pay salaries, taxes, and so on. So assume you pay yourself £20,000 per annum - and divide that by your 1100 hours too. That's another £18.18 per hour on top. So far, £27.27 per hour. Add a margin for taxes, and lower than expected working hours, say 25%. That brings you to around £34.08 per hour with a safe margin on your labour, also covering all your non-chargeable hours.

In this way, you know that your labour rate needs to be between £27 and £35 an hour to cover your costs with a safety margin to suit your working patterns.

Materials, then become effectively the "profit" element of what you make on a job - so can be managed accordingly.

 

[BLBelfast]

Well, labour rates should be worked out based on what it actually costs you to provide that labour, at that point, for that job.

In simple terms, all your overheads and direct costs, totalled, then divided by the number of hours you work in a year - usually around 2080.

This gives you a direct cost of labour assuming that you are actually charging every last working hour out. Most of us don't, and can't. After holidays, sickness, and other time off, there's typically around 220 working days in a year. That's around 1760 working hours. Then, most of us, in "one man" terms, actually work an average of 5 chargeable hours a day - the rest we give away one way and another. That means that your overheads/direct costs have to be paid for in as few as 1100 chargeable hours each year.

As an example - assume that rent, rates, cost of van, PC, tools, and so on cost you £10,000 per year. Divide that by 1100 and you get £9.09 per hour.

In other words, you need to earn £9.09 every working hour, just to stand still - and you need to make sure you have 1100 hours of chargeable work in each year too. On top of this, however, you need to pay salaries, taxes, and so on. So assume you pay yourself £20,000 per annum - and divide that by your 1100 hours too. That's another £18.18 per hour on top. So far, £27.27 per hour. Add a margin for taxes, and lower than expected working hours, say 25%. That brings you to around £34.08 per hour with a safe margin on your labour, also covering all your non-chargeable hours.

In this way, you know that your labour rate needs to be between £27 and £35 an hour to cover your costs with a safety margin to suit your working patterns.

Materials, then become effectively the "profit" element of what you make on a job - so can be managed accordingly.

Great post mate. Thanks for the info greatly appreciated.

 

[sythai]

£25 / hour cash, cheque all the same... £35 if hour or less.

Most of my work is done on price, which always works well.

The problem I have is knowing what to charge for the likes of a kitchen where I am spending alot of time tracking and it is dirty work. Do youse all charge per point no matter what is involved?

Do quite a lot of kitchens, and always on a price per point... havent stitched myself up yet.


£55 : socket / spur (+£10 for s/steel)
£70 : 32a supply
£38 : recessed downlight
£20 : t4 pelmet light
£65 : rcd/rcbo protection per circuit (+ any underlying faults to be rectified as an extra)