Working in domestic properties

[Manutd4life]

Hope this is in the right place.

I mainly work on commercial properties, new build and refurbs and I'm looking to go into the domestic side. Nothing too big just something to too my wages up, just something that I can complete over a weekend. I'm just wondering what exactly I need. I know I need Part P, I'm clear on that one even though I think it's ridiculous that I need it but that's another thread. Do I need my testing and inspection to sign off my work?
Do I need to sign up the NIC to get test sheets or can I get the elsewhere?
Once a rest sheet is done, do I give it to the customer and let building regs/local council have a copy too?

Thanks

 

[Welchyboy1]

If your doing odd small jobs you probably wont even need to get registered

i would get Pl insurance though

you can get certificates from lots of places, can you test well enough?

 

[D Skelton]

You want my honest opinion?

If you're fully qualified and experienced enough to be signing off your own work, balls to registration fella. Do the work, test it, certify it, move on...

Why pay some barsteward in a suit £500pa for the privilege???

 

[davesparks]

The certificates etc are the exact same ones you use for your commercial jobs.

 

[shanky887614]

You want my honest opinion?

If you're fully qualified and experienced enough to be signing off your own work, balls to registration fella. Do the work, test it, certify it, move on...

Why pay some barsteward in a suit £500pa for the privilege???

the only registration worth getting for most is insurance.

if the $hit hits the fan at least you wont lose your house etc

 

[ipf]

You want my honest opinion?

If you're fully qualified and experienced enough to be signing off your own work, balls to registration fella. Do the work, test it, certify it, move on...

Why pay some barsteward in a suit £500pa for the privilege???

Trying to liven things up a bit, Damien? :reddevil:

 

[Manutd4life]

If your doing odd small jobs you probably wont even need to get registered

i would get Pl insurance though

you can get certificates from lots of places, can you test well enough?

I haven't tested in a while but for now I can get my mate to do the tests if they needed. I want to get all the correct info first before I dive straight in.
Can I use the Certs that's in the back of the regs?

You want my honest opinion?

If you're fully qualified and experienced enough to be signing off your own work, balls to registration fella. Do the work, test it, certify it, move on...

Why pay some barsteward in a suit £500pa for the privilege???

Thats where I'm confused, I know I can test and certify it, but do I need to send anything of to the council/building regs or is that only if you don't have part P?

The certificates etc are the exact same ones you use for your commercial jobs.

I don't do the testing for the commercial jobs mate, the company does them or by the time testing comes, I'm on a different job.

the only registration worth getting for most is insurance.

if the $hit hits the fan at least you wont lose your house etc

Insurance isn't an issue, I will get that again once I know all the ins and outs.

thanks for all the replies

 

[davesparks]

One point, Part P is a building regulation, not a qualification or registration or whatever. It is a document in the same way that bs7671 is a document.

To 'have part P' means nothing more than that you have downloaded a free copy from the website.

 

[Manutd4life]

One point, Part P is a building regulation, not a qualification or registration or whatever. It is a document in the same way that bs7671 is a document.

To 'have part P' means nothing more than that you have downloaded a free copy from the website.

Ok that has cleared up one of questions up then. So when I get part P, I do a test and just give the customer the test sheet. If I don't have Part P, then I need to get building control to inspect it as I'm installing it and then issue building control the certificate.

 

[trev]

Part P, as has been said, is a building reg mate. If you're complying with 7671 you're complying with it.
You don't need to do a course that frankly any idiot can pass.
You may choose to register with a r£gulatoroy body although there's a growing groundswell of opinion against them. A rebellion if you will.
All the info you'll need is on their websites (NIC, Elecsa, Napit etc etc)

 

[davesparks]

No, as I said above part P is just a document which is free to download, possession of it doesn't mean anything in the real world.

If you do a domestic job you produce a certificate and give it to the customer, end of story, building control won't give a monkeys.
If the job is part of a larger building project which is subject to planning permission and building regulations inspections then your best bet will be to approach the building control department and discuss what they require from you before starting.

You could join a part P scheme to register all of your jobs, but they are all scams who are slowly destroying the industry.
There is a movement slowly gathering pace to boycott the schemes and we would all appreciate it if you didn't join them.

 

[Manutd4life]

Sorry to be a pain, I understand it is a building reg. But I'm still slightly confused, my understanding was, I need part P to be able to do work in a domestic dwelling, even my own house. This is why I want to clarify things before I start jumping in, some are saying I need Part P, you are saying I don't.

So say for instance, I install a new ring on an extension, I then test and give my cert to the client. I also do not need Part P and do not need to notify anyone. Would that also apply to a full re-wire?

 

[ReWired]

I was too under the impression that notifiable work has to be submitted to local building authority for a ridiculous fee if no planning permission has already been submitted (then it would be included free), or else done by joining one of the schemes.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but had to turn away work the other day due to not being registered with scheme.

 

[trev]

Notification is the issue mate, you can use a scheme for this and pay them £500pa plus notification fees or use LABC at exorbitant cost.
That said, no one has heard of any prosecutions for non notification and it's the only way we are ever going to get rid of the leeches that are feeding off us at present.

 

[trev]

I was too under the impression that notifiable work has to be submitted to local building authority for a ridiculous fee if no planning permission has already been submitted (then it would be included free), or else done by joining one of the schemes.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but had to turn away work the other day due to not being registered with scheme.

Not all domestic work is notifiable mate, take a look at Approved Document P on the planning portal for full details of what is and isn't

 

[Guest77]

I was too under the impression that notifiable work has to be submitted to local building authority for a ridiculous fee if no planning permission has already been submitted (then it would be included free), or else done by joining one of the schemes.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but had to turn away work the other day due to not being registered with scheme.

That was silly, I would have taken it on and worried about building control afterwards, let the customer pay for that, it is after all their responsibility.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Hope this is in the right place.

I mainly work on commercial properties, new build and refurbs and I'm looking to go into the domestic side. Nothing too big just something to too my wages up, just something that I can complete over a weekend. I'm just wondering what exactly I need. I know I need Part P, I'm clear on that one even though I think it's ridiculous that I need it but that's another thread. Do I need my testing and inspection to sign off my work?
Do I need to sign up the NIC to get test sheets or can I get the elsewhere?
Once a rest sheet is done, do I give it to the customer and let building regs/local council have a copy too?

Thanks

eh?...

 

[Manutd4life]

I was too under the impression that notifiable work has to be submitted to local building authority for a ridiculous fee if no planning permission has already been submitted (then it would be included free), or else done by joining one of the schemes.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but had to turn away work the other day due to not being registered with scheme.

Thats is what I'm trying to understand too. If I need to notify anyone, I can't do the work as it will be more hassle than it's worth for me, but my understanding by what is being said in this thread, is that you don't need to notify anyone

Notification is the issue mate, you can use a scheme for this and pay them £500pa plus notification fees or use LABC at exorbitant cost.
That said, no one has heard of any prosecutions for non notification and it's the only way we are ever going to get rid of the leeches that are feeding off us at present.

Let's hope they don't make an example of me lol.

Can you direct me to somewhere that does free test Certs?

 

[trev]

Can you direct me to somewhere that does free test Certs?

Knock your own up in word and excel mate. Use the model forms in 7671 as a template.

 

[Guest77]

Sorry to be a pain, I understand it is a building reg. But I'm still slightly confused, my understanding was, I need part P to be able to do work in a domestic dwelling, even my own house. This is why I want to clarify things before I start jumping in, some are saying I need Part P, you are saying I don't.

So say for instance, I install a new ring on an extension, I then test and give my cert to the client. I also do not need Part P and do not need to notify anyone. Would that also apply to a full re-wire?

:bigcry: please no more I can't take any more

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Thats is what I'm trying to understand too. If I need to notify anyone, I can't do the work as it will be more hassle than it's worth for me, but my understanding by what is being said in this thread, is that you don't need to notify anyone



Let's hope they don't make an example of me lol.

Can you direct me to somewhere that does free test Certs?

let me make something quite clear rite now:

its not your responsibility to notify the work.
Its the responsibility of the property owner/person ordering the work.

You make them aware of the requirements to notify LABC....but it aint your duty to do so.....

you can notify LABC through scam membership.....but ultimately its down to the person ordering the work/property owner..

 

[Manutd4life]

:bigcry: please no more I can't take any more

Sorry mate, just I'm hearing different things. It's all clear now.

let me make something quite clear rite now:

its not your responsibility to notify the work.
Its the responsibility of the property owner/person ordering the work.

You make them aware of the requirements to notify LABC....but it aint your duty to do so.....

you can notify LABC through scam membership.....but ultimately its down to the person ordering the work/property owner..

Ok, great. That will do me.

Thanks for all the help and sorry for all the frustration. Why is there so much confusion with Part P, quite a lot say you need it.

 

[trev]

Why is there so much confusion with Part P, quite a lot say you need it.

There's an awful lot who talk through their backsides mate

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Sorry mate, just I'm hearing different things. It's all clear now.




Ok, great. That will do me.

Thanks for all the help and sorry for all the frustration. Why is there so much confusion with Part P, quite a lot say you need it.

well there wouldn`t be...would there if part p was just scrapped....

 

[Octopus]

Hope this is in the right place.

I mainly work on commercial properties, new build and refurbs and I'm looking to go into the domestic side. Nothing too big just something to too my wages up, just something that I can complete over a weekend. I'm just wondering what exactly I need. I know I need Part P, I'm clear on that one even though I think it's ridiculous that I need it but that's another thread. Do I need my testing and inspection to sign off my work?
Do I need to sign up the NIC to get test sheets or can I get the elsewhere?
Once a rest sheet is done, do I give it to the customer and let building regs/local council have a copy too?

Thanks

1. You need PL insurance
2. You need to inform HMRC of your "second" income.
3. You need to inform your motor insurance company that you will be using your vehicle for business purposes.
4. You should consider having PI insurance

 

[GLENNSPARK]

anyway...

why would someone who is in the commercial sector want to go ****ting houses about anyway?

cant understand it me.....

 

[davesparks]

Story time!

I went self employed three years ago, I did not register with a scheme for the first two years.

In that time I did many many domestic jobs, and in that time only 2 clients ever asked about part P. I explained that I was not registered and their response was to have me do the work anyway as they had got hold of me on a good recommendation and cared more about that than any government scheme.

The reason I did not register then was that I just never got around to it, I eventually registered due to having a few jobs on the cards which BC were involved in.

I can say from first hand experience that the part P police don't exist!

As long as you do the work to the highest possible standard and complete the correct certificates then you can sleep easy.

And even if they did catch you carrying out electrical works to a high standard without registering them, what would they do? They aren't going to fish the old Wylex wooden fuse box out of the bin and make you put it back in are they?

The company I worked for previously only ever registered jobs where BC were involved, never any of the other jobs!

 

[Manutd4life]

anyway...

why would someone who is in the commercial sector want to go ****ting houses about anyway?

cant understand it me.....

just after some extra quick cash to top up my wages. That's basically it.

 

[Octopus]

just after some extra quick cash to top up my wages. That's basically it.

5. Ignore 1 -4 above and go and buy some spurs

 

[davesparks]

And to add to the above, I still don't register every job that I do!
My good friend the plumber and his lads can get through 4/5 boilers in a week, I wire all of the ones that they can't do themselves (so that's every one which isn't an exact like for like swap)
As far as ELECSA know I ain't ever done a boiler since I registered with them!

Strangely enough I still haven't heard the sound of the part P police's sirens hurtling towards me!

 

[Octopus]

And to add to the above, I still don't register every job that I do!
My good friend the plumber and his lads can get through 4/5 boilers in a week, I wire all of the ones that they can't do themselves (so that's every one which isn't an exact like for like swap)
As far as ELECSA know I ain't ever done a boiler since I registered with them!

Strangely enough I still haven't heard the sound of the part P police's sirens hurtling towards me!

Why would you notify wiring a boiler?

 

[davesparks]

Did they take CH heating controls off of the list of notifiables then? It's still an option on the job registration form thingy.

 

[Andy78]

Did they take CH heating controls off of the list of notifiables then? It's still an option on the job registration form thingy.

New circuits, work within zones of a bathroom, CU changes. That's about the upshot of notifiable work in England now. The rest of the house is fair game for anyone. Not exactly it's intended purpose eh ? which is why it is less relevant now than ever.

 

[Guest77]

The new circuit bit makes me laugh out loud. You can leave the 2 legs from the existing kitchen ring in place and add another 50 mtrs of brand new cable onto the circuit, yet because the 2 little short lengths of original ring is old it isn't notificationable, what a farce.

 

[ipf]

The new circuit bit makes me laugh out loud. You can leave the 2 legs from the existing kitchen ring in place and add another 50 mtrs of brand new cable onto the circuit, yet because the 2 little short lengths of original ring is old it isn't notificationable, what a farce.

Absolutely. Notifiable though, Mike.

 

[uksparks]

I think my only argument would be, ok I know it's a rip off etc being in a scam, but doing electrical work and not notifying jobs if that's what you plan to not do is kind of like taking a crap on the people who do pay and notify because you are too tight to pay the scam.

Dont take this the wrong way, I agree it's a joke etc, but I guess being an idiot who pays the scam, I'd rather everyone did so I don't feel lke I'm paying a loosing battle as it were, it's a bit like saying I'll sort your boiler because I'm capable, but I'm not corgi registered, kind of gets the back up of the registered people as you are just doing it without a care for your fellow trades people.

Sorry if this reads badly, not sure how to word it, I think either everyone should be in a scam, or they should not, non of this inbetween, being a fee payer, naturally I'm going to defend the idea of being with a scam.

 

[uksparks]

I'm not suggesting being in a scam makes you competent, just saying like with gas, obviously people who at corgi registered don't want to see people going round doing gas work who are not registered despite their abilities, I hve the same view but for electrics.

 

[davesparks]

Corgi is dead and buried, it was a corrupt mess so they got rid of it and formed the gas safe register.
This is in essence what we want to happen to the scams.

There is no comparison between the scams and gas safe. It is illegal to do gas work without being registered and the penalty is a prison sentence. Equally the penalty for doing dangerous work even when registered can be a prison sentence.

The scams however are a few different organisations operating in only part of the industry and pretty much encourage incompetent people to think they are competent and then do nothing about dangerous situations.


Exactly how much have the scams you are defending doing about that install you recently posted pictures of?

 

[telectrix]

if all qualified sparks refused to renew with the scams and carried on installing and not notifying, as long as the work was to regs. and safe, how many prosecutions do you think there would be? councils won't want to pay the costs of taking thousands to court. if we all made a stance, the scams would die.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

i`v said it before and i`ll say it again:

you do your 3 years at college + your time on site.
you get your NVQ3...

anything less and pis off home.....you aint coming in...

 

[ReWired]

That was silly, I would have taken it on and worried about building control afterwards, let the customer pay for that, it is after all their responsibility.

I know, but had to safer than sorry too cause it was a shower which is defo a notifiable job

 

[davesparks]

You say safer than sorry but what exactly are you safer from?
If you have done the job correctly and safely then there is nothing they can do to you.
If you have done the job incorrectly/dangerously then no amount of registration, notification or paperwork will stop someone dying.

 

[Richard Burns]

If you have done the job correctly and safely then there is nothing they can do to you.

Since it is a provision of the building regulations to notify specific work then this applies:

Building Act 1984
Breach of building regulations
35. If a person contravenes any provision contained in building regulations, other than a provision designated in the regulations as one to which this section does not apply, he is liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale and to a further fine not exceeding £50 for each day on which the default continues after he is convicted.

 

[ReWired]

You say safer than sorry but what exactly are you safer from?
If you have done the job correctly and safely then there is nothing they can do to you.
If you have done the job incorrectly/dangerously then no amount of registration, notification or paperwork will stop someone dying.

What I'm saying is that safer than sorry, rather than you complete a job and then the client gets a fine months later cause you didn't notify the job.

 

[davesparks]

Ok, who is going to give them a fine? Do the part P police have a radar van for detecting new fuseboards that haven't been notified?

 

[Gavin A]

Since it is a provision of the building regulations to notify specific work then this applies:

Building Act 1984
Breach of building regulations
35. If a person contravenes any provision contained in building regulations, other than a provision designated in the regulations as one to which this section does not apply, he is liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale and to a further fine not exceeding £50 for each day on which the default continues after he is convicted.

That's up to a £5k fine.

Nice little earner for a hard up building control department if they figure out what's going on and decide to do something about it.

 

[davesparks]

How exactly is a hard up building control department going to find out about an in-notified electrical job?
And how exactly are they going to fund a prosecution for having electrical work done which is safe and carried out to the best possible standards?
I can't imagine a judge handing out a £5K fine to somebody as punishment for having their electrical installation improved by a professional!

 

[Knobhead]

if we all made a stance, the scams would die.

I wish you the best of luck Don Quixote

 

[telectrix]

to misquote kenneth williams " apathy, apathy, they've all got the apathy".

 

[Engineer54]

Unfortunately in the UK the law has always been an ---!!